RE: Lotus gears up for new sports car launch
Discussion
But the sill in the Evora 400 on isn't actually wide or tall and is quite easy to climb over so I'm not convinced that's true. I also don't really understand the cramped comment. Again, perhaps before the 400 the pedal box was cramped but not anymore.
I honestly don't think that's why it's a concern for most. It's more likely that there aren't that many dealers, the badge doesn't have much snob value and it has... Quirks that mean you need to be willing to forgive things. None of these are chassis related issues.
I honestly don't think that's why it's a concern for most. It's more likely that there aren't that many dealers, the badge doesn't have much snob value and it has... Quirks that mean you need to be willing to forgive things. None of these are chassis related issues.
HeMightBeBanned said:
Because it makes the resulting car bloody difficult to live with for most people.
There's no way they're actually going to base a new car on the M111 tub. TdM-GTV said:
But the sill in the Evora 400 on isn't actually wide or tall and is quite easy to climb over so I'm not convinced that's true.
The Evora's tub is based on a completely different platform to the Elise's. The picture above appears to be a late Elise/Exige tub but I suspect it's a file photo and lazy journalism by PH. Edited by kambites on Friday 22 January 07:49
ManyMotors said:
Dead on arrival. Why do they even bother with this re-fried car? Either put decent money into making something new or get out of the market.
Porsche have been 're frying' the fundamentally flawed 911 concept for in excess of 50 years now and eventually turned it into a half decent car so why not?kambites said:
The Evora's tub is based on a completely different platform to the Elise's. The picture above appears to be a late Elise/Exige tub but I suspect it's a file photo and lazy journalism by PH.
Is this microphone on?Cold said:
Just to put this to bed once and for all and to save the blushes of PHers, the chassis pictured is a validation and quality control item to asses the manufacturing process of the new production site. That's it.
Read no more into it.
https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/the-s...
Read no more into it.
https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/the-s...
Cold said:
kambites said:
The Evora's tub is based on a completely different platform to the Elise's. The picture above appears to be a late Elise/Exige tub but I suspect it's a file photo and lazy journalism by PH.
Is this microphone on?Cold said:
Just to put this to bed once and for all and to save the blushes of PHers, the chassis pictured is a validation and quality control item to asses the manufacturing process of the new production site. That's it.
Read no more into it.
https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/the-s...
Read no more into it.
https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/the-s...
So to restate the sales figures......
Lotus sales were up 4.4 per cent in 2020, to 1,378 units. Porsche sold 1,063 718 Caymans and Boxster last July alone. In Europe.
1378 units sold are to die hard enthusiasts who worship at the altar of great handling and lightweight.
Over 20000 units (extrapolated by me and to include non European markets - probably conservative guesstimate) sold means a good usable everyday car with a premium cachet and badge appeal.
I would love Lotus to build something like a boxster/cayman that appeals to the masses with its perceived good looks, reliability, strong performance and reasonable value for money.
I wouldn't a give a s
t if was considered too heavy and not pure enough to be a true lotus so long as it could shift over 6000 units a year and make Lotus some much needed profits so they can still make the glorified kit cars that the 1000 or so ‘real enthusiasts’ crave so much. Think Porsche and those god awful 4x4’s that make them so much cash......
Yes I’ve driven a number of Lotus cars over the years but I never thought of buying one as they are too compromised (Imho) even for my needs as a weekend car / plaything.....
Good luck lotus - please build something so different to the current line up that can sell in profitable volumes to the uneducated masses.......
Lotus sales were up 4.4 per cent in 2020, to 1,378 units. Porsche sold 1,063 718 Caymans and Boxster last July alone. In Europe.
1378 units sold are to die hard enthusiasts who worship at the altar of great handling and lightweight.
Over 20000 units (extrapolated by me and to include non European markets - probably conservative guesstimate) sold means a good usable everyday car with a premium cachet and badge appeal.
I would love Lotus to build something like a boxster/cayman that appeals to the masses with its perceived good looks, reliability, strong performance and reasonable value for money.
I wouldn't a give a s
t if was considered too heavy and not pure enough to be a true lotus so long as it could shift over 6000 units a year and make Lotus some much needed profits so they can still make the glorified kit cars that the 1000 or so ‘real enthusiasts’ crave so much. Think Porsche and those god awful 4x4’s that make them so much cash......Yes I’ve driven a number of Lotus cars over the years but I never thought of buying one as they are too compromised (Imho) even for my needs as a weekend car / plaything.....
Good luck lotus - please build something so different to the current line up that can sell in profitable volumes to the uneducated masses.......
Edited by Slowlygettingit on Friday 22 January 08:50
Slowlygettingit said:
So to restate the sales figures......
Lotus sales were up 4.4 per cent in 2020, to 1,378 units. Porsche sold 1,063 718 Caymans and Boxster last July alone. In Europe.
1378 units sold are to die hard enthusiasts who worship at the altar of great handling and lightweight.
Over 20000 units (extrapolated by me and to include non European markets - probably conservative guesstimate) sold means a good usable everyday car with a premium cachet and badge appeal.
I would love Lotus to build something like a boxster/cayman that appeals to the masses with its perceived good looks, reliability, strong performance and reasonable value for money.
I wouldn't a give a st if was considered too heavy and not pure enough to be a true lotus so long as it could shift over 6000 units a year and make Lotus some much needed profits so they can still make the glorified kit cars that the 1000 or so ‘real enthusiasts’ crave so much. Think Porsche and those god awful 4x4’s that make them so much cash......
Yes I’ve driven a number of Lotus cars over the years but I never thought of buying one as they are too compromised (Imho) even for my needs as a weekend car / plaything.....
Good luck lotus - please build something so different to the current line up that can sell in profitable volumes to the uneducated masses.......
Absolutely agree, lotus has been on the brink of being unviable for as long as I can remember. As you say, other manufacturers have sold out their ideals long ago, look at the grief Bmw get from their “purists” for making fwd mainstream models. They need the mass sales to support their lower selling specialist models. I just hope lotus keep a super focussed model running alongside the mass sellers. Crikey, there’s even massive murmurs of a lotus suv coming, who thought they would live to see the day that materialised??!?Lotus sales were up 4.4 per cent in 2020, to 1,378 units. Porsche sold 1,063 718 Caymans and Boxster last July alone. In Europe.
1378 units sold are to die hard enthusiasts who worship at the altar of great handling and lightweight.
Over 20000 units (extrapolated by me and to include non European markets - probably conservative guesstimate) sold means a good usable everyday car with a premium cachet and badge appeal.
I would love Lotus to build something like a boxster/cayman that appeals to the masses with its perceived good looks, reliability, strong performance and reasonable value for money.
I wouldn't a give a s
t if was considered too heavy and not pure enough to be a true lotus so long as it could shift over 6000 units a year and make Lotus some much needed profits so they can still make the glorified kit cars that the 1000 or so ‘real enthusiasts’ crave so much. Think Porsche and those god awful 4x4’s that make them so much cash......Yes I’ve driven a number of Lotus cars over the years but I never thought of buying one as they are too compromised (Imho) even for my needs as a weekend car / plaything.....
Good luck lotus - please build something so different to the current line up that can sell in profitable volumes to the uneducated masses.......
Edited by Slowlygettingit on Friday 22 January 08:50
GrJa said:
Absolutely agree, lotus has been on the brink of being unviable for as long as I can remember. As you say, other manufacturers have sold out their ideals long ago, look at the grief Bmw get from their “purists” for making fwd mainstream models. They need the mass sales to support their lower selling specialist models. I just hope lotus keep a super focussed model running alongside the mass sellers. Crikey, there’s even massive murmurs of a lotus suv coming, who thought they would live to see the day that materialised??!?
TdM-GTV said:
But the sill in the Evora 400 on isn't actually wide or tall and is quite easy to climb over so I'm not convinced that's true. I also don't really understand the cramped comment. Again, perhaps before the 400 the pedal box was cramped but not anymore.
I honestly don't think that's why it's a concern for most. It's more likely that there aren't that many dealers, the badge doesn't have much snob value and it has... Quirks that mean you need to be willing to forgive things. None of these are chassis related issues.
Agree that there is no access issue with the Evora - but the Elise/Exige has a much higher sill. You would lose too much torsional rigidity in open cars with a lower sill, and I can't imagine Lotus only making coupes. So they would need to provide additional stiffness somewhere.I honestly don't think that's why it's a concern for most. It's more likely that there aren't that many dealers, the badge doesn't have much snob value and it has... Quirks that mean you need to be willing to forgive things. None of these are chassis related issues.
If they do use the AMG 45 engine I can't see them needing a 6 cylinder engine from a power perspective. With 420 ps and (say) 1200kg it would outperform any of their current models. On the other hand the V6 in the Evora is a glorious sounding engine and is a significant part of its appeal. And would many be prepared to pay 100k or more for a mere 4?
Something to look forward to. The Evora is rather old now and while a superb car it suffered hugely from simply not having the looks to back up the required price tag which hampered the base issue of the Lotus brand not being sufficiently aspirational after decades of management pitching 'cheap' to a society caught up in the biggest 'bling' obsession since the Georgian era.
I'm guessing that the new car will be a 4 pot with some form of hybrid tech so as to move the company forward off the back of the Evija and if it takes its styling from that car also then it could be the first Lotus in a very long time that looks more expensive than it is, which has been the crucial missing ingredient for a very long time.
But if they do achieve the important goal of making an £80k car look like a £100k+ exotic and desirable bit of kit then what purpose would the Evora then serve? It seems a little odd to bring in a better and more desirable product at a price point to sit below the Evora unless this new car has a big brother in the pipeline that is designed to replace the Evora quite quickly and allow the brand to push its prices up, which it so desperately needs to do?
As for why PH always compares a Lotus to a Porsche? They obviously find it amusing to goad unstable Porsche owners into a reaction but it's 2021 and it's not really acceptable to taunt people with issues in our society any more. If young children no longer mock children for wearing NHS glasses or having disabilities then I think it's time the adults took a leak out of their children's book and stopped taunting these Porsche chaps.
I'm guessing that the new car will be a 4 pot with some form of hybrid tech so as to move the company forward off the back of the Evija and if it takes its styling from that car also then it could be the first Lotus in a very long time that looks more expensive than it is, which has been the crucial missing ingredient for a very long time.
But if they do achieve the important goal of making an £80k car look like a £100k+ exotic and desirable bit of kit then what purpose would the Evora then serve? It seems a little odd to bring in a better and more desirable product at a price point to sit below the Evora unless this new car has a big brother in the pipeline that is designed to replace the Evora quite quickly and allow the brand to push its prices up, which it so desperately needs to do?
As for why PH always compares a Lotus to a Porsche? They obviously find it amusing to goad unstable Porsche owners into a reaction but it's 2021 and it's not really acceptable to taunt people with issues in our society any more. If young children no longer mock children for wearing NHS glasses or having disabilities then I think it's time the adults took a leak out of their children's book and stopped taunting these Porsche chaps.
bcr5784 said:
TdM-GTV said:
But the sill in the Evora 400 on isn't actually wide or tall and is quite easy to climb over so I'm not convinced that's true. I also don't really understand the cramped comment. Again, perhaps before the 400 the pedal box was cramped but not anymore.
I honestly don't think that's why it's a concern for most. It's more likely that there aren't that many dealers, the badge doesn't have much snob value and it has... Quirks that mean you need to be willing to forgive things. None of these are chassis related issues.
Agree that there is no access issue with the Evora - but the Elise/Exige has a much higher sill. You would lose too much torsional rigidity in open cars with a lower sill, and I can't imagine Lotus only making coupes. So they would need to provide additional stiffness somewhere.I honestly don't think that's why it's a concern for most. It's more likely that there aren't that many dealers, the badge doesn't have much snob value and it has... Quirks that mean you need to be willing to forgive things. None of these are chassis related issues.
The S1 elise sill is much taller than the S2 variant -- the design principle is similar but the actual dimensions are quite different.
The original car was never supposed to have a roof at all - it was originally not even going to have doors. How times have changed...
DonkeyApple said:
But if they do achieve the important goal of making an £80k car look like a £100k+ exotic and desirable bit of kit then what purpose would the Evora then serve? It seems a little odd to bring in a better and more desirable product at a price point to sit below the Evora unless this new car has a big brother in the pipeline that is designed to replace the Evora quite quickly and allow the brand to push its prices up, which it so desperately needs to do?
From the article; "sounds like it will effectively replace the entire ageing line up, from Elise to Evora. Popham confirmed in the interview that the new car would be offered "in versions ranging from £55,000 to £105,000""I think this will be their entry level car, will replace all of their current cars bar the Evija, with the new electric models sliding in above it.
If that's the case, it's going to have to be more of an Evora than an Elise, so I think the genuinely light/raw Lotus is probably dead. They can probably do a version with straps for door handles and all the equipment removed and then added back in as options, I guess.
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