ICE ban clouds on the horizon. Are you out?
Discussion
bigothunter said:
No, road pricing will supplement VED. Why would the government abandon an accepted taxation stream? 
They get to say 'we are reducing taxes for those who barely use their cars, and making those who use the road more, pay more'. I imagine if they introduce road pricing it would have to phase in as cars without the technology phase out. I'm the wrong side of 60 and retired, so don't really need an EV because I don't commute!
But prior to CV-19 I might typically do a day trip with a mate to Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Thruxton, Castle Combe, Snetterton, etc. and an EV probably wouldn't get there and back without a 30+ minute charge, whereas anything ICE can be filled in a few minutes.
And I can't charge at home without throwing a cable over the fence where someone is probably going to manage to trip over it, or unplug it.
I've got a 55 plate 3 Series daily and an 06 Z4MC because they are what I want, and at my age I figure I should have what I want while I can. If that changes I'll worry about it then.
OK road tax is £330 and £580 a year respectively, but despite their age they are both ULEZ compliant - although I'd probably rather use the Tube than suffer the misery of driving into the ULEZ!
Given I'll be over 70 when new cars with an ICE stop being sold I'm hoping I can keep using them, until all I can use is an EV anyway - as in Mobility Scooter.
But prior to CV-19 I might typically do a day trip with a mate to Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Thruxton, Castle Combe, Snetterton, etc. and an EV probably wouldn't get there and back without a 30+ minute charge, whereas anything ICE can be filled in a few minutes.
And I can't charge at home without throwing a cable over the fence where someone is probably going to manage to trip over it, or unplug it.
I've got a 55 plate 3 Series daily and an 06 Z4MC because they are what I want, and at my age I figure I should have what I want while I can. If that changes I'll worry about it then.
OK road tax is £330 and £580 a year respectively, but despite their age they are both ULEZ compliant - although I'd probably rather use the Tube than suffer the misery of driving into the ULEZ!
Given I'll be over 70 when new cars with an ICE stop being sold I'm hoping I can keep using them, until all I can use is an EV anyway - as in Mobility Scooter.
Landcrab_Six said:
bigothunter said:
If you are correct, that's excellent news 
But do you have evidence to endorse your bold statement that legislation has been dropped? Link(s) to relevant articles would be great
In literally every Euro VII document you can find on the first page of Google.But do you have evidence to endorse your bold statement that legislation has been dropped? Link(s) to relevant articles would be great
Rather than one journalistic opinion from 18 months ago.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
bigothunter said:
No, road pricing will supplement VED. Why would the government abandon an accepted taxation stream?
They get to say 'we are reducing taxes for those who barely use their cars, and making those who use the road more, pay more'. I imagine if they introduce road pricing it would have to phase in as cars without the technology phase out. RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It's just progress. I love ICE, but I also think the benefit to my kids of clean air will be massive.
Problem is, once again the western world says "f
k you" to other nations as they have for years, in the case of EV tech, and our phones, tablets and laptops etc. we push 4 and 5 year olds down mines to get the cobalt for all the batteries needed. Then we have the energy to produce the things, and the issue with EV cars feeling disposable. You might get a second owner, but once they are 6 or 7 years old and the battery is running at 70% of crap, will people want to buy it? I doubt it.
If they save people money to run, they will buy them, but that will be the only reason for 99% of buyers.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
bigothunter said:
The government will grab every last penny they can from the motorist. Fuel revenue lost by EV transition is £40bn and Covid penalty is at least £350bn. That money has to come from somewhere and the motorist is a soft target.
Um, hence road pricing.Fittster said:
No one expecting greater restrictions on where they can use ICE cars in the future.
If you can't drive an ICE car into densely populated areas it becomes a lot less useful.
Using ICE cars in densely populated areas does not make sense when EVs reduce localised emissions to almost zero. Expect an ICE urban driving ban in the next 10 to 15 years.If you can't drive an ICE car into densely populated areas it becomes a lot less useful.
jjwilde said:
They are certainly holding their value pretty well at 8 years old right now!
That is because the penny has not dropped yet. As I said yesterday, there is a 2010 Tesla Roadster on A/T at the moment, 11000 miles only but needs new batteries at around €15000 for the batteries alone, making the car effectively unsaleable.Fittster said:
No one expecting greater restrictions on where they can use ICE cars in the future.
If you can't drive an ICE car into densely populated areas it becomes a lot less useful.
Once EV's become critical mass they will become the target that ICE vehicles are now for government to limit and tax. Many in government have a goal of pushing everyone into public transport by limiting individual vehicle options. I worked for TfL in the 2000's and it was already being talked about then.If you can't drive an ICE car into densely populated areas it becomes a lot less useful.
When EV's are common place government will find a way to find problems with them to raise the taxes lost on ICE. They will over exaggerate/create a problem to then find a solution that raises taxes. Just like they are doing with climate change. Its all about more control and more taxes.
volvos60s60 said:
jjwilde said:
They are certainly holding their value pretty well at 8 years old right now!
That is because the penny has not dropped yet. As I said yesterday, there is a 2010 Tesla Roadster on A/T at the moment, 11000 miles only but needs new batteries at around €15000 for the batteries alone, making the car effectively unsaleable.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007101...
It's a very limited run, specialist sports car, from the earliest days of electric motoring. It's not at all representative of what the state of modern batteries will be in ten years time. The advert also doesn't say why it needs a new battery. For all we know, the pack could have suffered accidental damage, when you're assuming its somehow worn out.
volvos60s60 said:
jjwilde said:
They are certainly holding their value pretty well at 8 years old right now!
That is because the penny has not dropped yet. As I said yesterday, there is a 2010 Tesla Roadster on A/T at the moment, 11000 miles only but needs new batteries at around €15000 for the batteries alone, making the car effectively unsaleable.There are plenty of original roadsters still working just fine, you can also pay Tesla to upgrade the battery to modern tech giving it a 300+ mile range.
And on top of all that the roadster has held its value near perfectly after 10 years.
OP here. I'm still here and absorbing all the views and arguments
My feelings are pretty much aligned with a lot of what has been said.
EV s are coming and there's no dodging that or how the government will be championing that.
We can all see that from an air quality perspective in towns and cities it's the right answer BUT can we learn to embrace them?
BUT, and it's a big but, is the government going to be sensitive to the fact the transition will be painful for some in society to adopt EVs and will enthusiasts views for ICE be given any sort of consideration and treated sympathetically. I think not! Will they set out a clear plan and route to electrification. I think in their minds setting 2030 date IS the plan and all should follow from there through manufacturers development and market forces.
Looking at how our great leaders in HoC have handled Brexit and the pandemic I have no doubt whatsoever that they will make a dog's dinner of anything they touch and I have little faith that the nuances of what the people actually want will get lost in a committee decision and solution as Is always the case.
Is there any motoring body who is championing the ICE side of the equation? The manufacturers seem to have already capitulated to the emissions legislation and complying through electrification and is a done deal, and for them is it just big business selling numbers of units? Almost certainly.
What happens to motorsport in the meantime? Carries on for competition purposes but little to no engineering development from now on? Are we going to see electrification to what will amount to a big boys Scalextric set? Who knows?
I can see, through the last six pages I am not alone in pondering these issues
I've always promised myself something a little special and I'm damned well going to do it once this lockdown is over!!
Thanks for all the contributions folks.It's always good to talk!
My feelings are pretty much aligned with a lot of what has been said.
EV s are coming and there's no dodging that or how the government will be championing that.
We can all see that from an air quality perspective in towns and cities it's the right answer BUT can we learn to embrace them?
BUT, and it's a big but, is the government going to be sensitive to the fact the transition will be painful for some in society to adopt EVs and will enthusiasts views for ICE be given any sort of consideration and treated sympathetically. I think not! Will they set out a clear plan and route to electrification. I think in their minds setting 2030 date IS the plan and all should follow from there through manufacturers development and market forces.
Looking at how our great leaders in HoC have handled Brexit and the pandemic I have no doubt whatsoever that they will make a dog's dinner of anything they touch and I have little faith that the nuances of what the people actually want will get lost in a committee decision and solution as Is always the case.
Is there any motoring body who is championing the ICE side of the equation? The manufacturers seem to have already capitulated to the emissions legislation and complying through electrification and is a done deal, and for them is it just big business selling numbers of units? Almost certainly.
What happens to motorsport in the meantime? Carries on for competition purposes but little to no engineering development from now on? Are we going to see electrification to what will amount to a big boys Scalextric set? Who knows?
I can see, through the last six pages I am not alone in pondering these issues
I've always promised myself something a little special and I'm damned well going to do it once this lockdown is over!!
Thanks for all the contributions folks.It's always good to talk!
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