ICE ban clouds on the horizon. Are you out?
Discussion
otolith said:
I do think it's coming, but agree, still some time away.
I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
Mostly because they’ve been priced out of driving with insurance and rent being much higher where jobs are now. It’s not that people don’t want to, it’s more like they can’t. I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
I’m sure many people have no interest in ulysse nardin but if it was more like £100 then more people would take interest.
otolith said:
DonkeyApple said:
I agree. There's too much commercial benefit in many areas for it not to eventually be cracked but pub pods will be something my children benefit from at best.
Stuck with plague vectoring Uber drivers for now.
321boost said:
otolith said:
I do think it's coming, but agree, still some time away.
I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
Mostly because they’ve been priced out of driving with insurance and rent being much higher where jobs are now. It’s not that people don’t want to, it’s more like they can’t. I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
I’m sure many people have no interest in ulysse nardin but if it was more like £100 then more people would take interest.
otolith said:
321boost said:
otolith said:
I do think it's coming, but agree, still some time away.
I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
Mostly because they’ve been priced out of driving with insurance and rent being much higher where jobs are now. It’s not that people don’t want to, it’s more like they can’t. I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
I’m sure many people have no interest in ulysse nardin but if it was more like £100 then more people would take interest.
With this culture, I'm surprised today's kids want any involvement with cars never mind having the urge to drive one.
otolith said:
321boost said:
otolith said:
I do think it's coming, but agree, still some time away.
I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
Mostly because they’ve been priced out of driving with insurance and rent being much higher where jobs are now. It’s not that people don’t want to, it’s more like they can’t. I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
I’m sure many people have no interest in ulysse nardin but if it was more like £100 then more people would take interest.
Some of you oldies dont know s
t as usual.Edited by 321boost on Friday 26th February 03:28
FourWheelDrift said:
No one has yet come up with a solution to charging parked on-road EVs overnight, if you can't park outside your own house how do you charge up an EV. You can't have cables up and down the path as they are a trip hazard and you can't trust anyone not to unplug the car overnight. So what will they do?
This 2030 target for new cars only being EV is short-sighted and I do predict it to slip to a later date and any new ICE ban taking longer.
I concur.This 2030 target for new cars only being EV is short-sighted and I do predict it to slip to a later date and any new ICE ban taking longer.
bigothunter said:
rxe said:
IMO we’re going to see loads of Level 3 and 4 automation. It may or may not be as good as human, it will be flawed and it will have to hand over regularly. Full on Level 5, asleep on the back seat? 15 - 20 years away would be my guess.
Agreed 
Level 4 autonomy available to the customer by 2030 with full Level 5 by 2040 are reasonable targets, given the significant development needed. This video illustrates some challenges ahead:
321boost said:
otolith said:
321boost said:
otolith said:
I do think it's coming, but agree, still some time away.
I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
Mostly because they’ve been priced out of driving with insurance and rent being much higher where jobs are now. It’s not that people don’t want to, it’s more like they can’t. I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
I’m sure many people have no interest in ulysse nardin but if it was more like £100 then more people would take interest.
Some of you oldies dont know s
t as usual.Edited by 321boost on Friday 26th February 03:28
Super_G said:
FourWheelDrift said:
No one has yet come up with a solution to charging parked on-road EVs overnight, if you can't park outside your own house how do you charge up an EV. You can't have cables up and down the path as they are a trip hazard and you can't trust anyone not to unplug the car overnight. So what will they do?
This 2030 target for new cars only being EV is short-sighted and I do predict it to slip to a later date and any new ICE ban taking longer.
I concur.This 2030 target for new cars only being EV is short-sighted and I do predict it to slip to a later date and any new ICE ban taking longer.
The few people I know with EVs don’t charge them at home.
otolith said:
321boost said:
otolith said:
I do think it's coming, but agree, still some time away.
I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
Mostly because they’ve been priced out of driving with insurance and rent being much higher where jobs are now. It’s not that people don’t want to, it’s more like they can’t. I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
I’m sure many people have no interest in ulysse nardin but if it was more like £100 then more people would take interest.
But the number of miles travelled by this demographic hasn't deviated from general usage trends over the last couple of decades which tends to indicate that younger people aren't giving up driving at all under all the regetoric and imagery.
Obviously, there will be an impact due to fashion and also some people choosing to spend money on other goods. But it is increased affluence and spending power that has allowed this demographic to use taxis. It's that simple. The rapid rise in urban migration among the youth demographic along with being one of the largest users of summoned minicabs has simply freed many from the need to own a vehicle.
Super_G said:
FourWheelDrift said:
No one has yet come up with a solution to charging parked on-road EVs overnight, if you can't park outside your own house how do you charge up an EV. You can't have cables up and down the path as they are a trip hazard and you can't trust anyone not to unplug the car overnight. So what will they do?
This 2030 target for new cars only being EV is short-sighted and I do predict it to slip to a later date and any new ICE ban taking longer.
I concur.This 2030 target for new cars only being EV is short-sighted and I do predict it to slip to a later date and any new ICE ban taking longer.
The question to be asking is why would such a user need to charge at home firstly.
Up to 2035 adoption of EVs will just be among those people who have an advantage and wish to take it. These will be the people with charging solutions whether it be home or work or shopping.
It's that segment that will drive the massive expansion of the corporate charging network in car parks that are used by commuters and shoppers.
Now, given that the vast majority of people who do not have offstreet parking and who do actually own a car are not needing to charge from empty every day, in fact, people are just doing around 10 miles a day on average this means that there probably won't ever be any economically viable demand for residential pavement charging.
People will charge during the day where there car is parked for work or shopping. They will be topping up just 10-20 miles at a time or doing a bigger charge at the weekend.
DonkeyApple said:
Apart from it not really being correct.
The question to be asking is why would such a user need to charge at home firstly.
Up to 2035 adoption of EVs will just be among those people who have an advantage and wish to take it. These will be the people with charging solutions whether it be home or work or shopping.
It's that segment that will drive the massive expansion of the corporate charging network in car parks that are used by commuters and shoppers.
Now, given that the vast majority of people who do not have offstreet parking and who do actually own a car are not needing to charge from empty every day, in fact, people are just doing around 10 miles a day on average this means that there probably won't ever be any economically viable demand for residential pavement charging.
People will charge during the day where there car is parked for work or shopping. They will be topping up just 10-20 miles at a time or doing a bigger charge at the weekend.
Quite, it’s just a change in mindset from fill-up when you need to ‘to top’ when you can.The question to be asking is why would such a user need to charge at home firstly.
Up to 2035 adoption of EVs will just be among those people who have an advantage and wish to take it. These will be the people with charging solutions whether it be home or work or shopping.
It's that segment that will drive the massive expansion of the corporate charging network in car parks that are used by commuters and shoppers.
Now, given that the vast majority of people who do not have offstreet parking and who do actually own a car are not needing to charge from empty every day, in fact, people are just doing around 10 miles a day on average this means that there probably won't ever be any economically viable demand for residential pavement charging.
People will charge during the day where there car is parked for work or shopping. They will be topping up just 10-20 miles at a time or doing a bigger charge at the weekend.
chrispmartha said:
Quite, it’s just a change in mindset from fill-up when you need to ‘to top’ when you can.
Ironically, most people already top up as they go for economic reasons. Fewer that half of the car owning population lack private parking, they will naturally form the group that is the last to switch and they will have their fuelling needs met by commercial chargers at parking destinations. There is next to no viable or commercial demand for a street charging network. The business case alone fails. A charger on a residential street will, at best, have one client a day and that client will only be requiring a top up so only be drawing a very small amount of power to be charged for. And as the majority of people would be topping up during the day there would be even fewer potential customers. The reality is that with no commercial enterprise at a location and almost zero customer turnover there will never be an economic case for a residential street charging network.
DonkeyApple said:
otolith said:
321boost said:
otolith said:
I do think it's coming, but agree, still some time away.
I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
Mostly because they’ve been priced out of driving with insurance and rent being much higher where jobs are now. It’s not that people don’t want to, it’s more like they can’t. I think once it's here, the countdown to us not being allowed to drive ourselves is ticking. Once people dying on the roads becomes an optional extra for the sake of manual control it becomes pretty morally indefensible. Add to that - kids don't care about learning to drive already, take away any practical benefit to it and being able to and wanting to drive manually rapidly becomes the pursuit of a tiny minority.
I think probably there will be autonomous cars by the time I'm too old to drive myself and that probably there will still be self driven ones in first world economies by the time I'm dead.
I’m sure many people have no interest in ulysse nardin but if it was more like £100 then more people would take interest.
But the number of miles travelled by this demographic hasn't deviated from general usage trends over the last couple of decades which tends to indicate that younger people aren't giving up driving at all under all the regetoric and imagery.
Obviously, there will be an impact due to fashion and also some people choosing to spend money on other goods. But it is increased affluence and spending power that has allowed this demographic to use taxis. It's that simple. The rapid rise in urban migration among the youth demographic along with being one of the largest users of summoned minicabs has simply freed many from the need to own a vehicle.
We can see that the association of driving licence = freedom has been broken.
And when the time comes that they can use the family's car without needing to be able to drive it, there is no reason to spend thousands of pounds on driving lessons.
otolith said:
Yep.
We can see that the association of driving licence = freedom has been broken.
And when the time comes that they can use the family's car without needing to be able to drive it, there is no reason to spend thousands of pounds on driving lessons.
Who the hell is spending thousands of pounds on driving lessons?!?We can see that the association of driving licence = freedom has been broken.
And when the time comes that they can use the family's car without needing to be able to drive it, there is no reason to spend thousands of pounds on driving lessons.
Back in '96 it cost me £140 including the test!
Blu3R said:
Who the hell is spending thousands of pounds on driving lessons?!?
Back in '96 it cost me £140 including the test!
The average number of lessons now is 45, at £25-£30 per hour. Plus 22 hours of practice, which not everyone can do informally.Back in '96 it cost me £140 including the test!
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/learning-to-dri...
Evanivitch said:
Blu3R said:
Who the hell is spending thousands of pounds on driving lessons?!?
Back in '96 it cost me £140 including the test!
Breaking news, it's not 1996.Back in '96 it cost me £140 including the test!
So, average hours lessons is, apparently, 45 hours of lessons (and 20h practice with parents etc.)
So that's £900-£1350 to learn to drive.
Plus test cost (many people take more than 1 of course) and obv car/fuel/insurance/tax etc.
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