ICE ban clouds on the horizon. Are you out?
Discussion
CheesecakeRunner said:
Jasandjules said:
I know this is Pistonheads, but there are people who can't afford to buy new cars. So they won't be purchasing a new EV in 2030......
They wouldn’t be buying a new ICE car either. They’ll just buy a ten year old Model 3 for 5 grand in the same way they’ll buy a ten year old Mondeo now.
TX.
ICE cars in 2030 will have a proper 400 mile range and will work of 270kwh chargers, so get you back to 80% or 300+ miles in 10-15 minutes. So they will start to make sense. If boring.
2024/5 will see Euro 7, not only is it tighter emissions, but it also includes speed limit restrictors as well, you car will be limited to the road speed using both gps info and road sign detection.
The initial cars will have a deactivate switch, but this is to get owners used to the fact it is coming. We will probably see this by 2030 as well.
So at that point whether the car is EV or not will be the least of my worries. Doesn't really matter if it is boring or not at that point.
2024/5 will see Euro 7, not only is it tighter emissions, but it also includes speed limit restrictors as well, you car will be limited to the road speed using both gps info and road sign detection.
The initial cars will have a deactivate switch, but this is to get owners used to the fact it is coming. We will probably see this by 2030 as well.
So at that point whether the car is EV or not will be the least of my worries. Doesn't really matter if it is boring or not at that point.
untakenname said:
Unless battery capacity and infrastructure improves markedly then it won't be viable, especially if landlords don't get onboard as anyone renting is effectively excluded from having an EV.
We've run a Tesla for the past 12 months and are renting at present. A 3-pin plug granny charger adds 100+ miles overnight if required (we usually add 60-70 when the kW are cheap between midnight and 7am. How many people are covering more than that daily?Workplace charging is also improving all the time as is accessibility at supermarkets, gyms etc.
Terminator X said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
Jasandjules said:
I know this is Pistonheads, but there are people who can't afford to buy new cars. So they won't be purchasing a new EV in 2030......
They wouldn’t be buying a new ICE car either. They’ll just buy a ten year old Model 3 for 5 grand in the same way they’ll buy a ten year old Mondeo now.
TX.
https://insideevs.com/news/429818/tesla-model-s-x-...
Even 80% battery would still offer 200+ miles on the LR or P models so hardly scrap? Also very easy to get battery health so would go in with your eyes open, unlike ICE very often.
Edited by SWoll on Monday 8th February 23:23
Edited by SWoll on Monday 8th February 23:24
270kW chargers aren't going to be commonplace as the local grid will struggle to support them - and they're horrendously expensive to buy and install. I'm not sure how we can actually afford the infrastructure investment needed - globally, governments can't afford the investment so soon after Covid and unless the charging businesses ramp up rates to match the mileage cost of fossil, they're going to struggle to make it work, too.
All the houses on my development have 60a fuses - and the houses are only 20 years old. The guy who upgraded mine to 80a reckoned they'd need a new substation if everyone moved to 80a to support 7.2kW home charging.
It's not quite as easy as it first looks. I suspect PHEV will still have a large part to play for a long time yet.
Where did you get the speed limiter info from - I can't see anything in my googling for EuroVII - and given that my BMW doesn't know the speed limit due to an aftermarket windscreen fitment buggering about with the calibration of the onboard systems, I can't see how it can ever be safely implemented. My GPS watch often has me running in rivers or the sea due to inaccuracies, too.
All the houses on my development have 60a fuses - and the houses are only 20 years old. The guy who upgraded mine to 80a reckoned they'd need a new substation if everyone moved to 80a to support 7.2kW home charging.
It's not quite as easy as it first looks. I suspect PHEV will still have a large part to play for a long time yet.
Where did you get the speed limiter info from - I can't see anything in my googling for EuroVII - and given that my BMW doesn't know the speed limit due to an aftermarket windscreen fitment buggering about with the calibration of the onboard systems, I can't see how it can ever be safely implemented. My GPS watch often has me running in rivers or the sea due to inaccuracies, too.
Down on the Farm said:
thiscocks said:
If you think the car industry will accept being not allowed to produce an ICE vehicle in less than 10 years you are as deluded as the government.
Hi thiscocks,That's not what I am saying at all. Read my first post.
Of course I am aware that the ban is for NEW cars and old ICE will be run for many years after that if not decades of more.
I am actually amazed that the government has apparently committed to the 2030 date much to the incredulity of the car industry themselves and they are now under immense pressure to deliver and are going to find it difficult to achieve. So difficult in fact that I think we will see the demise of some marques.
What I am questioning is it worth "investing" in an expensive performance car to be kicked in the balls by collapsing residuals and demonisation of "the old smokers" once the mAjority of public perception changes and re-educated the government, green lobby and press.
Edited by Down on the Farm on Friday 5th February 21:44
ked our economy up the wall, for them to purposely fk it even further on a fanciful electric environment saver is a step too far, even for them. As mentioned synthetic fuels make much more sense with regards to reducing emissions while using a massive already developed supporting infrastructure.
So basically, buy a petrol sports car, enjoy it and ignore the electric b
ks! thiscocks said:
I personally wouldn't worry about residuals based on anything the government are proposing. There is simply way too much money being made in the automotive industry mainly based on ICE design and selling for the government to want to hinder that. They have already just fked our economy up the wall, for them to purposely fk it even further on a fanciful electric environment saver is a step too far, even for them.
As mentioned synthetic fuels make much more sense with regards to reducing emissions while using a massive already developed supporting infrastructure.
So basically, buy a petrol sports car, enjoy it and ignore the electric bks!
This 100%. EV's make great daily's but for something truly special go ICE.ked our economy up the wall, for them to purposely fk it even further on a fanciful electric environment saver is a step too far, even for them. As mentioned synthetic fuels make much more sense with regards to reducing emissions while using a massive already developed supporting infrastructure.
So basically, buy a petrol sports car, enjoy it and ignore the electric b
ks! SWoll said:
Why do you assume a new battery will be required?
https://insideevs.com/news/429818/tesla-model-s-x-...
Even 80% battery would still offer 200+ miles on the LR or P models so hardly scrap? Also very easy to get battery health so would go in with your eyes open, unlike ICE very often.
Tesla Model S or X is £90-130k ish though so will never be bought for £5k 2nd hand as the original poster suggested. Perhaps they are so expensive because the battery is so good vs all the shttps://insideevs.com/news/429818/tesla-model-s-x-...
Even 80% battery would still offer 200+ miles on the LR or P models so hardly scrap? Also very easy to get battery health so would go in with your eyes open, unlike ICE very often.
Edited by SWoll on Monday 8th February 23:23
Edited by SWoll on Monday 8th February 23:24
te EV's where the batteries will need replacing?TX.
Landcrab_Six said:
Where did you get the speed limiter info from - I can't see anything in my googling for EuroVII - and given that my BMW doesn't know the speed limit due to an aftermarket windscreen fitment buggering about with the calibration of the onboard systems, I can't see how it can ever be safely implemented. My GPS watch often has me running in rivers or the sea due to inaccuracies, too.
Speed limiters from 2022Yes, we open with the infamous speed limiters: technology that can read limits and automatically slow the car down as appropriate. Yes, they will come to the UK in spite of Brexit, and no, they won’t be hard limiters. You’ll be able to switch the system off or push through the limiter with a hard press of the accelerator. At least at first. More strict applications could follow in the future.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/speed-li...
Edited by bigothunter on Monday 8th February 23:38
bigothunter said:
Speed limiters from 2022
Yes, we open with the infamous speed limiters: technology that can read limits and automatically slow the car down as appropriate. Yes, they will come to the UK in spite of Brexit, and no, they won’t be hard limiters. You’ll be able to switch the system off or push through the limiter with a hard press of the accelerator. At least at first. More strict applications could follow in the future.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/speed-li...
Not happening - that's just opinion and not what is actually happening - things have moved on a lot since that was published.Yes, we open with the infamous speed limiters: technology that can read limits and automatically slow the car down as appropriate. Yes, they will come to the UK in spite of Brexit, and no, they won’t be hard limiters. You’ll be able to switch the system off or push through the limiter with a hard press of the accelerator. At least at first. More strict applications could follow in the future.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/speed-li...
GPS is nowhere near accurate enough to limit speeds and would be dangerous unless all cars were autonomous and communicating with each other - it would only take a GPS glitch and a non limited car to cause a massive accident.
Fittster said:
Evidence for that.
Well, how are we going to afford it? Just tax the hell out of everything? Keep printing money until the global economy collapses?Easy to say 'evidence for that' - but where is the evidence that, after spending half a trillion on Covid, we have a pot to piss in for the next couple of decades?
Landcrab_Six said:
Well, how are we going to afford it? Just tax the hell out of everything? Keep printing money until the global economy collapses?
Easy to say 'evidence for that' - but where is the evidence that, after spending half a trillion on Covid, we have a pot to piss in for the next couple of decades?
VED will become priced per mile.Easy to say 'evidence for that' - but where is the evidence that, after spending half a trillion on Covid, we have a pot to piss in for the next couple of decades?
I discovered one of the major flaws in EV tech. this evening - on local journeys, I plug my PHEV in and run around in full EV mode.
Went out to collect the wife from work, with temperatures around minus 2 and had severely limited performance. OK to about 40mph, but on the dual carriageway it took forever to get to 60mph and squeezing the accelerator harder just caused the EV bit to scream enough, be disabled by the car, and kick the ICE back in. Range is also down on where it was when temperatures were in double figures.
Went out to collect the wife from work, with temperatures around minus 2 and had severely limited performance. OK to about 40mph, but on the dual carriageway it took forever to get to 60mph and squeezing the accelerator harder just caused the EV bit to scream enough, be disabled by the car, and kick the ICE back in. Range is also down on where it was when temperatures were in double figures.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It's just progress. I love ICE, but I also think the benefit to my kids of clean air will be massive.
You might be disappointed to hear of all the pollution caused by heavy industry etc.
Plus pollution in the UK is pretty much zero compared to India etc.
TX.
Terminator X said:
You might be disappointed to hear of all the pollution caused by heavy industry etc.
Plus pollution in the UK is pretty much zero compared to India etc.
TX.
I'm not sure what heavy industry, which I live nowhere near, has to do with street level pollution from cars? Even if you do nothing with industry, removing ICE will remove a significant amount of street level pollution. Plus pollution in the UK is pretty much zero compared to India etc.
TX.
Also, what about India? My kids don't breath the air in India.
Why the irrational and irrelevant arguments?
Landcrab_Six said:
bigothunter said:
Speed limiters from 2022
Yes, we open with the infamous speed limiters: technology that can read limits and automatically slow the car down as appropriate. Yes, they will come to the UK in spite of Brexit, and no, they won’t be hard limiters. You’ll be able to switch the system off or push through the limiter with a hard press of the accelerator. At least at first. More strict applications could follow in the future.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/speed-li...
Not happening - that's just opinion and not what is actually happening - things have moved on a lot since that was published.Yes, we open with the infamous speed limiters: technology that can read limits and automatically slow the car down as appropriate. Yes, they will come to the UK in spite of Brexit, and no, they won’t be hard limiters. You’ll be able to switch the system off or push through the limiter with a hard press of the accelerator. At least at first. More strict applications could follow in the future.
https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/speed-li...
GPS is nowhere near accurate enough to limit speeds and would be dangerous unless all cars were autonomous and communicating with each other - it would only take a GPS glitch and a non limited car to cause a massive accident.
But do you have evidence to endorse your bold statement that legislation has been dropped? Link(s) to relevant articles would be great
bigothunter said:
If you are correct, that's excellent news
But do you have evidence to endorse your bold statement that legislation has been dropped? Link(s) to relevant articles would be great
In literally every Euro VII document you can find on the first page of Google.But do you have evidence to endorse your bold statement that legislation has been dropped? Link(s) to relevant articles would be great
Rather than one journalistic opinion from 18 months ago.
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