Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 18]
Discussion
Martin30 said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Whilst on the subject of general new-car appeal, diesels, small 4 cylinder petrols and so on, I find myself at the other end of my normal bottom-feeder barge-fandom as I investigate new offerings. <snip>
I am likely to earn myself a ban from this thread for this reply, but please hear me out. I am a long, and committed barge chooser, and for the first 25 years of car buying life, have always prioritised the barge traits over all - many cylinders, an excess of capability, long distance comfort etc.
Then, 7 years ago, I went to work for Jaguar Land Rover for 5 years. I got lovely, frequently changed company cars as part of the gig, and settled mainly on Discovery 5s with the 2.0 4-cyl 237bhp diesel engine. I did 30k miles a year commuting, hence choosing the 4-pot initially. Bar the aural pleasures that come from a multi-cylinder engine, the 4-pot is simply a better choice. All the turbos, torque and gear ratios needed - even towing 3T often, the cruising fuel economy of a modern, high compression, low capacity engine, and no ability to tell 4 from 6 pot unless under 20mph or more than 70% throttle.
I realised that what makes an effective 'luxury' experience is not much to do with the configuration of the engine, it is the overall capability of the car, the levels of torque at low rpm, the sound proofing, the cabin environment, the toys, the quality of materials and the tactile interactions you have with the interior.
These days, I still want the barge size, engineering, quality, and refinement. But I will prioritise specification, options, and colour schemes long before the engine choice.
I am merely trying to say that modern, downsized, heavily boosted petrol/diesel four pots are not the devil. They are not the sublime, smooth, excess of wonder that we all love, but they are not the devil.
Martin.
Joking apart, your experience with company cars largely mirrors mine, when I worked for Volvo. I drove any number of new-generation Volvos, such as the XC60, XC90, S60, V60, S90, V90, et al. Like many new offerings from various manufacturers, they were exclusively 4-cylinder boosted petrols or diesels, with the wick turned up or down, depending on the boot badge.
In my experience (which seems similar to yours at LR), the only time the driver ever knows the engine under the bonnet isn't some creamy multi-cylinder effort is at idle (and that's only from outside the vehicle) or when mashing the throttle pedal into the carpet.
The other 95% of the time, when driving at anything up to eight-tenths, the lack of additional cylinders, cubic capacity, and largely regardless of fuel type... Well, it really doesn't matter all that much.
Don't get me wrong, I like my vehicles to have at least 6 cylinders, preferably 8. My current car is a V6, and my next car is likely to be a V8 (supercharged, if I can get away with it). However, when these new Volvos drop into thread budget, I can genuinely see myself driving one, and not being terribly bothered about the comparatively "small" engine under the bonnet.
There, I said it.
Hate to say it, but I'm also perceiving a narrowing of the gap.
The difference between a 1990s Ford 4-cylinder and a V6 was big. The difference between an E36 318tds and a 325tds was big.
Now I don't think the differences are as big as they were.
Automatic gearboxes, turbos, sound insulation and sophisticated body design, balancer shafts, Dual mass flywheels, and clever engine mounts have made a huge difference.
And between depreciation, fuel and tax, and to a lesser extent maintenance, there's quite a lot of money to be saved.
The difference between a 1990s Ford 4-cylinder and a V6 was big. The difference between an E36 318tds and a 325tds was big.
Now I don't think the differences are as big as they were.
Automatic gearboxes, turbos, sound insulation and sophisticated body design, balancer shafts, Dual mass flywheels, and clever engine mounts have made a huge difference.
And between depreciation, fuel and tax, and to a lesser extent maintenance, there's quite a lot of money to be saved.
Why do people have to be such dicks. The door-to-door screens are a little on the busy side with some of the display options, but I think the Honda e is a much better interpretation of the "everything is a tablet" dashboard than anything BMW or Mercedes are putting out. There's more W124/W126 influence in that layout than there is in a Mercedes! Especially those slim air vents, which are very W126.
And it's a little city car...
And it's a little city car...
Dapster said:
Here here. Although as you drive on the wrong side of the road, you also have access to the lesser spotted E420. Most of the bite of a 500 but looks like you've dropped off a fare at Flughafen Stuttgart. This one is a bit pricey but the lack of depreciation as Tobinen mentions above will Man Maths the spreadsheet back into your favour.
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
Now there's lovely!https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
Edited by Dapster on Wednesday 24th February 09:58
21st Century Man said:
RicksAlfas said:
bolidemichael said:
Why can't the axle be far away from the dash on a FWD?
You would need a very odd gearbox or very flexible driveshafts!If you wonder why Audis had a reputation for understeer, look at this.
See where the suspension tops are? The whole weight of the engine is in front of them...
The Audi is like sliding a hammer across a tabletop. The head goes where you pushed it. The rest just keeps-up with the head.
mondayo said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Busted. I'm Frank7's alter-ego!
(It's only for family and friends collection from the airport really).
Here's something not even close to exciting for you...but it is a left hooker and in full taxi spec. Yours for £6250(It's only for family and friends collection from the airport really).
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009153...
A few years ago, we bought an e61 off CdG - a fairly boggo 523i - and we liked it. We sold it to move to Switzerland and replaced it with... an e61 530d xDrive, which was fully loaded. What a car! Accelerated like a plane down a runway and stuck like poo to a duvet. Every extra was ticked and it was a lovely place to cover significant miles.
But then the windscreen wipers and central locking became intermittent and the bill from the Swiss dealership was, frankly, eye-watering. And the Swiss road tax system is a multiplication of weight and power, so that was eye-watering too.
In the end, after a few more big bills, we chopped it in for a nearly new C4 Cactus.
Long story short: living in Luxembourg, I too would be looking to buy new or nearly new.
sprouting said:
You don't accept emails or I'm incompetent (more likely)
I don't have many decent pics but if you are interested let me know. I hate selling cars which is why I normally keep them 10 years
Selling the Touran is a joke wbac it may be.
I think it’s more my incompetence than yours! I don't have many decent pics but if you are interested let me know. I hate selling cars which is why I normally keep them 10 years
Selling the Touran is a joke wbac it may be.
Please post details on thread.
We won’t object.
That E420 makes a new car look expensive and silly.
Agree about the Honda E dashboard, shows how it can be done, but magpie shiny thing man with his leased white goods car wants blue neon to match his kitchen appliances and home entertainment stuff. Unlocking the car with a mobile is an important feature too, though I can't fathom why?
Agree about the Honda E dashboard, shows how it can be done, but magpie shiny thing man with his leased white goods car wants blue neon to match his kitchen appliances and home entertainment stuff. Unlocking the car with a mobile is an important feature too, though I can't fathom why?
Dapster said:
Here here. Although as you drive on the wrong side of the road, you also have access to the lesser spotted E420. Most of the bite of a 500 but looks like you've dropped off a fare at Flughafen Stuttgart. This one is a bit pricey but the lack of depreciation as Tobinen mentions above will Man Maths the spreadsheet back into your favour.
https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
Such a shame about the exhaust which ruins an otherwise super classy and very lovely W124.https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...
Edited by Dapster on Wednesday 24th February 09:58
21st Century Man said:
That E420 makes a new car look expensive and silly.
Agree about the Honda E dashboard, shows how it can be done, but magpie shiny thing man with his leased white goods car wants blue neon to match his kitchen appliances and home entertainment stuff. Unlocking the car with a mobile is an important feature too, though I can't fathom why?
The blue neon does make it extremely hard to find a vein, so it's not all bad.Agree about the Honda E dashboard, shows how it can be done, but magpie shiny thing man with his leased white goods car wants blue neon to match his kitchen appliances and home entertainment stuff. Unlocking the car with a mobile is an important feature too, though I can't fathom why?
SpeckledJim said:
21st Century Man said:
That E420 makes a new car look expensive and silly.
Agree about the Honda E dashboard, shows how it can be done, but magpie shiny thing man with his leased white goods car wants blue neon to match his kitchen appliances and home entertainment stuff. Unlocking the car with a mobile is an important feature too, though I can't fathom why?
The blue neon does make it extremely hard to find a vein, so it's not all bad.Agree about the Honda E dashboard, shows how it can be done, but magpie shiny thing man with his leased white goods car wants blue neon to match his kitchen appliances and home entertainment stuff. Unlocking the car with a mobile is an important feature too, though I can't fathom why?
king jukebox, just a simple red light to indicate on. Got the thing home, plugged it in, the whole base lit up with a blue neon ring of light like a special effect in a sci-fi FFS!Gonna need a bigger 'B' ship!
MorganP104 said:
Don't worry, you won't get a ban for talking about 4-pot engines and diesel, just don't expect a Christmas card.
Joking apart, your experience with company cars largely mirrors mine, when I worked for Volvo. I drove any number of new-generation Volvos, such as the XC60, XC90, S60, V60, S90, V90, et al. Like many new offerings from various manufacturers, they were exclusively 4-cylinder boosted petrols or diesels, with the wick turned up or down, depending on the boot badge.
In my experience (which seems similar to yours at LR), the only time the driver ever knows the engine under the bonnet isn't some creamy multi-cylinder effort is at idle (and that's only from outside the vehicle) or when mashing the throttle pedal into the carpet.
The other 95% of the time, when driving at anything up to eight-tenths, the lack of additional cylinders, cubic capacity, and largely regardless of fuel type... Well, it really doesn't matter all that much.
Don't get me wrong, I like my vehicles to have at least 6 cylinders, preferably 8. My current car is a V6, and my next car is likely to be a V8 (supercharged, if I can get away with it). However, when these new Volvos drop into thread budget, I can genuinely see myself driving one, and not being terribly bothered about the comparatively "small" engine under the bonnet.
There, I said it.
++Just to add to this, I recently had to replace a 7 year old BMW 320d Touring and the choice came down to a couple of 3 year old 4 series - a 430i (4 pot turbo petrol) or a 430d (6 pot diesel) and on testing them back to back the 430d was by far the better choice. That 4 pot petrol is just a very dull engine. They both have ostensibly the same performance but subjectively the 430d felt much faster.Joking apart, your experience with company cars largely mirrors mine, when I worked for Volvo. I drove any number of new-generation Volvos, such as the XC60, XC90, S60, V60, S90, V90, et al. Like many new offerings from various manufacturers, they were exclusively 4-cylinder boosted petrols or diesels, with the wick turned up or down, depending on the boot badge.
In my experience (which seems similar to yours at LR), the only time the driver ever knows the engine under the bonnet isn't some creamy multi-cylinder effort is at idle (and that's only from outside the vehicle) or when mashing the throttle pedal into the carpet.
The other 95% of the time, when driving at anything up to eight-tenths, the lack of additional cylinders, cubic capacity, and largely regardless of fuel type... Well, it really doesn't matter all that much.
Don't get me wrong, I like my vehicles to have at least 6 cylinders, preferably 8. My current car is a V6, and my next car is likely to be a V8 (supercharged, if I can get away with it). However, when these new Volvos drop into thread budget, I can genuinely see myself driving one, and not being terribly bothered about the comparatively "small" engine under the bonnet.
There, I said it.
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