ANPR - Have Your Say
Discussion
Terminator X said:
swisstoni said:
Halmyre said:
Every day a journey said:
A vital tool in the arsenal of all Police Forces (I refuse to call them a Police Service, they are the Police Force).
ANPR has been absolutely crucial in far more serious cases than 'no insurance' etc.
The only people that would be against it have something to hide.
Stop right there with the "innocent have nothing to fear" bANPR has been absolutely crucial in far more serious cases than 'no insurance' etc.
The only people that would be against it have something to hide.
ks.You don’t leave home without a personal tracker on your pocket.
Plus you can actually leave home without it which is what I do (or did) when the Pubs were open and meeting friends etc.TX.
Terminator X said:
You are sleepwalking in to it though. CCTV was initially there as a manned camera to protect us from criminals. Then it changed from a person to "software" and was used to track criminals via ANPR. Then it was used as an average speed check on motorways. Then it was used as an average speed check on non-motorways. What's next? You can't see it at all?
What about facial recognition? Just a software update. Imagine if that database can be sold to third parties? Being used already much to my surprise:
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2019/09/04/fac...
The irony is that hardened criminals easily evade it all - cheap PAYG phones, cloned plates, stolen cars, hoodies covering their faces ...
TX.
Again, this is not a new phenomenon. People have been saying what you’re saying for as long as I can remember, that XYZ would happen or already is happening.What about facial recognition? Just a software update. Imagine if that database can be sold to third parties? Being used already much to my surprise:
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2019/09/04/fac...
The irony is that hardened criminals easily evade it all - cheap PAYG phones, cloned plates, stolen cars, hoodies covering their faces ...
TX.
Why would I have a problem with cameras being used to enforce speed limits? They’re pretty obvious, Waze exists, and it’s possible to avoid enforcement entirely by simply not speeding. Regardless of how strong your feelings are, if your argument is essentially that “doing that illegal thing can be easily caught by these cameras “, I’d suggest it’s not a particularly strong argument.
People make the argument, and have been making the argument, for a very long time that automated enforcement, CCTV/ANPR, etc will lead to non-crimes being monitored (I’m not even sure what this means), but no one can actually show empirical evidence of Minority Report style governance, despite the fact these cameras have been around for a LONG time, so you’d think the inclination for it to be applied indiscriminately would’ve led to it happening long before now.
As for facial recognition? Should I have strong feelings about that? If CCTV/ANPR has sufficient resolution and I’d done something illegal, wouldn’t there be people trying to work out who I was anyway? And in instances where I haven’t done anything - how would I know it isn’t already being done? The fact it doesn’t impact my life suggests to me that it is not something I ought to be concerned about.
Again, I prefer to live in the reality we’re in, not some imagined worst case scenario that is unprovable (and stressful I imagine?). I don’t obsess over things I can’t control and have no knowledge about, like who happens to have captured me on camera in a given town.
Durzel said:
Why would I have a problem with cameras being used to enforce speed limits? They’re pretty obvious, Waze exists, and it’s possible to avoid enforcement entirely by simply not speeding. Regardless of how strong your feelings are, if your argument is essentially that “doing that illegal thing can be easily caught by these cameras “, I’d suggest it’s not a particularly strong argument.
Cameras only enforce anything if the vehicle they are capturing is wearing the correct plates. In other words they catch mostly law abiding people who make a minor lapse, while allowing more dedicated criminals who have gone to the trouble of using a cloned plate to go about their business unhindered. Every ticket they pick up goes to the poor schmuck whose plates they've cloned (me in the last few weeks)....ANPR is a valuable tool in the fight against crime, but it does feel like it's grown from this in recent years and is now seen at least in part as a substitution for boots on the ground rather than a tool to help them use their resources more efficiently.
Durzel said:
Again, I prefer to live in the reality we’re in, not some imagined worst case scenario that is unprovable (and stressful I imagine?).
So you never consider how current trends develop into future outcomes. Never. No stocks and shares. No future planning. No smoke detectors. No locks on your doors. Just blissful living in the moment with no thoughts for how things can change. Beautiful.Durzel said:
I don’t obsess over things I can’t control and have no knowledge about, like who happens to have captured me on camera in a given town.
Except they've literally asked the public for input, we can vote for Governments with different positions on privacy, and we do have a court system that has very recently defended that position (i.e. stopping SWP using facial recognition software).It's a weird philosophy which I guess is the epitome of naive compliance.
Evanivitch said:
Durzel said:
Again, I prefer to live in the reality we’re in, not some imagined worst case scenario that is unprovable (and stressful I imagine?).
So you never consider how current trends develop into future outcomes. Never. No stocks and shares. No future planning. No smoke detectors. No locks on your doors. Just blissful living in the moment with no thoughts for how things can change. Beautiful.It's not the cameras that's the issue, it's the data and what it's used for. If it genuinely was used just for catching serious criminals then fine but that's never what happens. Anybody with a passing knowledge of RIPA will know that. The use of the data will spread.
Look at the report on how casually and liberally Police Force use mobile phone location data: https://ico.org.uk/media/about-the-ico/documents/2...
What are speed cameras used for ? Catching basically honest people who have tax/insurance and registered the car to themselves or their company, but are driving a few MPH over the limit. Hardly a crime, nobody dies. The drug and drink drivers don't get caught, criminals don't get caught, joyriders, thieves, rapists... only honest people who can be easily traced electronically and fined. It's about money collection and making it look as though "something is being done" but the net result is just cash collection.
Look at the report on how casually and liberally Police Force use mobile phone location data: https://ico.org.uk/media/about-the-ico/documents/2...
What are speed cameras used for ? Catching basically honest people who have tax/insurance and registered the car to themselves or their company, but are driving a few MPH over the limit. Hardly a crime, nobody dies. The drug and drink drivers don't get caught, criminals don't get caught, joyriders, thieves, rapists... only honest people who can be easily traced electronically and fined. It's about money collection and making it look as though "something is being done" but the net result is just cash collection.
Evanivitch said:
Durzel said:
Are you capable of making any arguments without resorting to appeals to extremes?
Can you be consistent in your views?The way you walk is as unique as your finger print. They are developing software that gets around the problem of people covering their faces to avoid facial recognition.
The software can also detect somebody that is trying to change their natural gait.
It works perfectly at the moment on a one to one basis, but is still being developed for crowded environments. It's currently 84% effective in a crowd, especially the gait adjusters.
The software can also detect somebody that is trying to change their natural gait.
It works perfectly at the moment on a one to one basis, but is still being developed for crowded environments. It's currently 84% effective in a crowd, especially the gait adjusters.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
The way you walk is as unique as your finger print. They are developing software that gets around the problem of people covering their faces to avoid facial recognition.
The software can also detect somebody that is trying to change their natural gait.
It works perfectly at the moment on a one to one basis, but is still being developed for crowded environments. It's currently 84% effective in a crowd, especially the gait adjusters.
I'm a womans's man. No time to talk.The software can also detect somebody that is trying to change their natural gait.
It works perfectly at the moment on a one to one basis, but is still being developed for crowded environments. It's currently 84% effective in a crowd, especially the gait adjusters.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
And you probably need to ask the question why.
A sad state of affairs, but I for one would trade this in for more safety. I guess you can't have both.
You honestly don't feel safe without CCTV or ANPR cameras?A sad state of affairs, but I for one would trade this in for more safety. I guess you can't have both.
"He who would give up liberty for security deserves neither."
Durzel said:
Evanivitch said:
Durzel said:
Are you capable of making any arguments without resorting to appeals to extremes?
Can you be consistent in your views?treeroy said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
And you probably need to ask the question why.
A sad state of affairs, but I for one would trade this in for more safety. I guess you can't have both.
You honestly don't feel safe without CCTV or ANPR cameras?A sad state of affairs, but I for one would trade this in for more safety. I guess you can't have both.
"He who would give up liberty for security deserves neither."
As I said, I worked for a CCTV installer....nothing like banging the drumswisstoni said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
The way you walk is as unique as your finger print. They are developing software that gets around the problem of people covering their faces to avoid facial recognition.
The software can also detect somebody that is trying to change their natural gait.
It works perfectly at the moment on a one to one basis, but is still being developed for crowded environments. It's currently 84% effective in a crowd, especially the gait adjusters.
I'm a womans's man. No time to talk.The software can also detect somebody that is trying to change their natural gait.
It works perfectly at the moment on a one to one basis, but is still being developed for crowded environments. It's currently 84% effective in a crowd, especially the gait adjusters.
Anpr could very easily be turned into an absolute nightmare for the police if a determined group of people put their minds to it.
A roll of black electrical tape and you can change the appearance of random number plates very easily.
If that were to happen across the country think of the police hours tied up.
A roll of black electrical tape and you can change the appearance of random number plates very easily.
If that were to happen across the country think of the police hours tied up.
citizensm1th said:
Anpr could very easily be turned into an absolute nightmare for the police if a determined group of people put their minds to it.
A roll of black electrical tape and you can change the appearance of random number plates very easily.
If that were to happen across the country think of the police hours tied up.
I'd be surprised if most people cared enough to go to that amount of effort or take the risk of being caught and done for PCoJ (or whatever)A roll of black electrical tape and you can change the appearance of random number plates very easily.
If that were to happen across the country think of the police hours tied up.
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