ANPR - Have Your Say

[Evanivitch]

2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:

Evanivitch said:

vonhosen said:

You choose to use a car, you don't have to.

Fair point, it's a privilege, therefore let's put GPS tracking on everyone's cars 24/7 and just end the debate there.

It's coming, with speed limiters relative to the limit of the road.

Mostly. But that system doesn't necessarily send location data back to a network, it can easily be a passive system.

[vonhosen]

Evanivitch said:

vonhosen said:

You choose to use a car, you don't have to.

Fair point, it's a privilege, therefore let's put GPS tracking on everyone's cars 24/7 and just end the debate there.

My statement doesn't mean I'm in favour of that at all, it was just in relation to you saying that you don't have to use Amazon.
With most things we don't have to leave ourselves open to digital tracking, we mostly end up choosing to engage though for the benefits/convenience that it offers us.

Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 17th February 17:12

[Evanivitch]

vonhosen said:

Evanivitch said:

vonhosen said:

You choose to use a car, you don't have to.

Fair point, it's a privilege, therefore let's put GPS tracking on everyone's cars 24/7 and just end the debate there.

My statement doesn't mean I'm in favour of that at all, it was just in relation to you saying that you don't have to use Amazon.

Exactly, I don't have to. I could use eBay. I could use an independent site. I could mail order. I could telephone. I could shop in store. Ultimately I end up with the same end product and I avoid Amazon.

I could not use the car. But then I have to walk, cycle, catch the bus, get a taxi. I hopefully get to the same place, but it takes longer and perhaps it costs me more money. Equivalent? Maybe.

[swisstoni]

Either way, when we stick our fizzog outside the door we enter the public domain.
It’s not a private place unfortunately.

[oceanview]

Every day a journey said:

rallycross said:

oceanview said:

How come they're not used to pick up untaxed/no MOT/insurance?

I know the scrotes' wont have it registered to them so wont help catching them but, the fkwits who just don't bother with the costs (but vehicle registered properly) then they soon be picked up and dealt with.

I drive a lot of cars that would show up as not insured or taxed ( I have trade plates ) and the ANPR on traffic cars is not always on ( or it does not work?) you can be sure the scotes all know this already from trying it and not getting caught!

If you have your trade plates showing that will cover it.

As you well know, to obtain, and retain, a set is expensive and very much a 'red tape' exercise.

I am talking about the fixed cameras you have at entries into towns etc- not in Police cars- obviously they're going to pick up untaxed, MOT, uninsured , if ANPR in car but, the fixed camera units, i am pretty sure, wont record ( and so lead to fine) cars that have issues unless the Police specifically look for a certain plate of interest.

So, say if someone down the road has been driving in and out of town for months with an untaxed car ( due to costs/forgot) then they would not automatically be sent out a fine, unless the Police had an interest in their car/plate and put the reg in the system.

Not sure why not- also for no MOT and insurance.

[saaby93]

Wasnt fixed ANPR rolled out in such a way that it wouldnt be used as big brother i.e. for issuing penalty fines etc.
It was merely be used for 'intelligence' so as to assist in determining crimes by other means

[321boost]

Volvolover said:

So the concerns are around the security of the data not the principle of collecting it for the interested reasons then in the main.


Also you guys are really hitting ANPR hard when really the data held by the like of Amazon and social media sites and the mobile phone companies utterly dwarfs what you’d get out of ANPR systems

Why the f*ck do people think everyone is on social media or using those services? Even if they were they have chosen to do so. Come out with something new already it’s getting boring now.

Edited by 321boost on Wednesday 17th February 20:58

[321boost]

Wasn’t Sheffield ANPR system left open to public access? It has happened in other areas too. “Secure and protected”. Yeah right

[konark]

Can't have too much state surveillance can you?

[Volvolover]

Evanivitch said:

Volvolover said:

So the concerns are around the security of the data not the principle of collecting it for the interested reasons then in the main.

No, that was just a wider discussion on government holding personal data.

IMO, ANPR should be checking against a suspects list and locations should be publicly declared. It should not be harvesting everyone's data for 12 months at undisclosed camera locations.

Volvolover said:

Also you guys are really hitting ANPR hard when really the data held by the like of Amazon and social media sites and the mobile phone companies utterly dwarfs what you’d get out of ANPR systems

Only if I choose to use their services. Which is a choice. They're also subject to GDPR legislation. ANPR data is, but only loosely.

Haha only if you choose to use those services Lolol

It’s virtually impossible to go off grid in terms of not giving information to large organisations. Unless you say you don’t use bank cards, a mobile phone, any online shopping at all, have no loyalty cards, no social media, no tv subscriptions, use a vpn and secure browser like tor onion browser etc and share zero search engine data

I’d suggest that was pure bullst if you claim you avoid all the above.

ANPR is the least of your personal data worries. I’d be interested to know why you think ANPR data controller isn’t subject to the same GDPR rules I am

[bigothunter]

321boost said:

Wasn’t Sheffield ANPR system left open to public access? It has happened in other areas too. “Secure and protected”. Yeah right

konark said:

Can't have too much state surveillance can you?

[Who me ?]

Benbay001 said:

Police - "Thanks to the positive feedback about ANPR, we have decided to install ANPR with speed monitoring on every road in the county"

So it's ( as per one of our local beat Police Sergeants ) "be careful WHAT you ask for.

[neutral 3]

LunarOne said:

I don't like it at all. I don't like being on CCTV everywhere I go, and I don't like my journeys being tracked. I think the germans have the right attitude, with being able to opt out of having their properties appearing on google streetview. It's not even the thin end of the wedge any longer. Facial recognition, ANPR and CCTV everywhere mean we're already on the verge of very Minority Report style authoritarian policing. It has got to be put a stop to. There was once a thing called civil liberty, and that's gone.

Well said !! I hate the use of anpr everywhere I go.

[mybrainhurts]

Every day a journey said:

A vital tool in the arsenal of all Police Forces (I refuse to call them a Police Service, they are the Police Force).

ANPR has been absolutely crucial in far more serious cases than 'no insurance' etc.

The only people that would be against it have something to hide.

Not necessarily.

My number has been mis-read by ANPR cameras in Heathrow car parks. Is police technology different/better?

[Evanivitch]

Volvolover said:

Evanivitch said:

Volvolover said:

So the concerns are around the security of the data not the principle of collecting it for the interested reasons then in the main.

No, that was just a wider discussion on government holding personal data.

IMO, ANPR should be checking against a suspects list and locations should be publicly declared. It should not be harvesting everyone's data for 12 months at undisclosed camera locations.

Volvolover said:

Also you guys are really hitting ANPR hard when really the data held by the like of Amazon and social media sites and the mobile phone companies utterly dwarfs what you’d get out of ANPR systems

Only if I choose to use their services. Which is a choice. They're also subject to GDPR legislation. ANPR data is, but only loosely.

Haha only if you choose to use those services Lolol

It’s virtually impossible to go off grid in terms of not giving information to large organisations. Unless you say you don’t use bank cards, a mobile phone, any online shopping at all, have no loyalty cards, no social media, no tv subscriptions, use a vpn and secure browser like tor onion browser etc and share zero search engine data

But my Social Media and my browser information don't have to use personally identifiable information.

You're right that in a world of online payments bank cards are a big deal, bit bank cards also have a very specific use and very clearly defined policy on where that data can be used.

ANPR does not.

Volvolover said:

I’d suggest that was pure bullst if you claim you avoid all the above.

ANPR is the least of your personal data worries. I’d be interested to know why you think ANPR data controller isn’t subject to the same GDPR rules I am

Because "law enforcement" is specifically excluded from Rights of Access under Part 3 of the DPA. The National ANPR network is also not required to publish its static camera locations, despite them being key parts of its data collection. And ICO guidance states that surveillance equipment should be clearly signposted to state systems are in use, but I've never seen an ANPR camera ahead sign.

[swisstoni]

I have. On a route in to central london if I recall.

[coppice]

Biggy Stardust said:

‘The innocent have nothing to fear’.
I believe the innocent have everything to fear, mostly from the guilty but in the longer term even more from those who say things like ‘The innocent have nothing to fear’.
Has legislation ever been abused? From RIPA to police threatening arrest if a family doesn't go indoors from their front garden to other police wanting to inspect grocery bags? Tell me honestly that ANPR information will never be abused, sold to commercial operations, etc. When the authorities have repeatedly abused a position of power it's not entirely paranoid to suppose that they might do the same in future, especially if systems are in place which make such abuse easier to perpetrate.

Hear, hear.. I find it utterly extraordinary how the UK has sleep walked into absurd levels of surveillance . What the hell is wrong with us ? Time and again, the police abuse or exceed their powers and yet we seem passively to accept almost North Korean levels of CCTV and other cameras. I doubt if any other country in Europe would accept this , and you have to ask what's next? A camera in the living room to check you're not spouting hate speech in front of the telly ? Come on sir, if you've nothing to hide ...that lame old excuse .

Mind you, in view of the fact that half the driving public seems so eager grass up other road users to the police , thanks to the self righteousness which only a dash cam can create , I shouldn't be surprised .

[Volvolover]

Evanivitch said:

Volvolover said:

Evanivitch said:

Volvolover said:

So the concerns are around the security of the data not the principle of collecting it for the interested reasons then in the main.

No, that was just a wider discussion on government holding personal data.

IMO, ANPR should be checking against a suspects list and locations should be publicly declared. It should not be harvesting everyone's data for 12 months at undisclosed camera locations.

Volvolover said:

Also you guys are really hitting ANPR hard when really the data held by the like of Amazon and social media sites and the mobile phone companies utterly dwarfs what you’d get out of ANPR systems

Only if I choose to use their services. Which is a choice. They're also subject to GDPR legislation. ANPR data is, but only loosely.

Haha only if you choose to use those services Lolol

It’s virtually impossible to go off grid in terms of not giving information to large organisations. Unless you say you don’t use bank cards, a mobile phone, any online shopping at all, have no loyalty cards, no social media, no tv subscriptions, use a vpn and secure browser like tor onion browser etc and share zero search engine data

But my Social Media and my browser information don't have to use personally identifiable information.

You're right that in a world of online payments bank cards are a big deal, bit bank cards also have a very specific use and very clearly defined policy on where that data can be used.

ANPR does not.

Volvolover said:

I’d suggest that was pure bullst if you claim you avoid all the above.

ANPR is the least of your personal data worries. I’d be interested to know why you think ANPR data controller isn’t subject to the same GDPR rules I am

Because "law enforcement" is specifically excluded from Rights of Access under Part 3 of the DPA. The National ANPR network is also not required to publish its static camera locations, despite them being key parts of its data collection. And ICO guidance states that surveillance equipment should be clearly signposted to state systems are in use, but I've never seen an ANPR camera ahead sign.

I still think (know) that ANPR is the smallest of your data worries in reality.

Bank cards. So do you think when you use it in Sainsburys for example they don’t use your card number for any analysis?

You almost certainly carry a mobile phone with iOS or Android....

Forget privacy unless you are very very well informed and have a lot of time on your hands to spend reducing your digital data footprint

[saaby93]

Volvolover said:

I still think (know) that ANPR is the smallest of your data worries in reality.

Bank cards. So do you think when you use it in Sainsburys for example they don’t use your card number for any analysis?

You almost certainly carry a mobile phone with iOS or Android....

Forget privacy unless you are very very well informed and have a lot of time on your hands to spend reducing your digital data footprint

There's a name for this type of argument where when discussing one thing, someone throws in all sorts of arguments about something else

[Volvolover]

saaby93 said:

There's a name for this type of argument where when discussing one thing, someone throws in all sorts of arguments about something else

It’s all pretty relevant

The objection to anpr is mainly security of the data and an objection to it being collected and used in the first place

My point is that data more revealing than anpr and with more detailed location analysis is already collected elsewhere in the main so the growing use of ANPR is largely irrelevant especially if you aren’t breaking any laws