ANPR - Have Your Say

ANPR - Have Your Say

Author
Discussion

bigothunter

1,001 posts

25 months

Saturday 6th March
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
Strictly enforced?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
Point taken smile

What are your views on soft speed limiters scheduled for 2022? Some contributors maintain this proposal has been dropped but I can find no evidence of that.
Haven't given them a second thought.
Well you should. Going faster than posted limits could soon become a transgression of the past, making our low 70 motorway limit very significant.
How are soft limiters going to do that?
By limiting engine power so your speed conforms to the limits. If you override the limiter by pressing the accelerator into its activated heavy zone, an insistent electronic chime will alert you. Speeding will become an unpleasant experience.

Next phase is hard limiters like those already fitted to vans and trucks.

saaby93

28,123 posts

143 months

Saturday 6th March
quotequote all
bigothunter said:
By limiting engine power so your speed conforms to the limits. If you override the limiter by pressing the accelerator into its activated heavy zone, an insistent electronic chime will alert you. Speeding will become an unpleasant experience.

Next phase is hard limiters like those already fitted to vans and trucks.
What's the relationship between speed limiters and accident rates?

vonhosen

37,373 posts

182 months

Saturday 6th March
quotequote all
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
Strictly enforced?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
Point taken smile

What are your views on soft speed limiters scheduled for 2022? Some contributors maintain this proposal has been dropped but I can find no evidence of that.
Haven't given them a second thought.
Well you should. Going faster than posted limits could soon become a transgression of the past, making our low 70 motorway limit very significant.
How are soft limiters going to do that?
By limiting engine power so your speed conforms to the limits. If you override the limiter by pressing the accelerator into its activated heavy zone, an insistent electronic chime will alert you. Speeding will become an unpleasant experience.
So in fact not stopping you going faster than the posted limit then (which is what you asserted & hence why I asked the question).

bigothunter

1,001 posts

25 months

Saturday 6th March
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
Strictly enforced?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
Point taken smile

What are your views on soft speed limiters scheduled for 2022? Some contributors maintain this proposal has been dropped but I can find no evidence of that.
Haven't given them a second thought.
Well you should. Going faster than posted limits could soon become a transgression of the past, making our low 70 motorway limit very significant.
How are soft limiters going to do that?
By limiting engine power so your speed conforms to the limits. If you override the limiter by pressing the accelerator into its activated heavy zone, an insistent electronic chime will alert you. Speeding will become an unpleasant experience.
So in fact not stopping you going faster than the posted limit then (which is what you asserted & hence why I asked the question).
How many drivers will push into a high load accelerator pedal whilst ignoring an insistent electronic chime? Not many and not for long because it's too uncomfortable. The 'problem' of speeding drivers is solved.

bigothunter

1,001 posts

25 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
bigothunter said:
By limiting engine power so your speed conforms to the limits. If you override the limiter by pressing the accelerator into its activated heavy zone, an insistent electronic chime will alert you. Speeding will become an unpleasant experience.

Next phase is hard limiters like those already fitted to vans and trucks.
What's the relationship between speed limiters and accident rates?
Nobody knows and of course speed limiters will cause some crashes. But EU are convinced that lower speeds are critical to road safety. Their new rules will apply to UK regardless of Brexit. From link appended:

4.3.1 Safe speed
About one third of fatal crashes are (partly) caused by excessive or inappropriate speed. According to research, the risk to be involved in a crash when speeding is 12.8 times higher than for non-speeders And higher speed crashes cause far more damage than lower speed ones. Based on research results, the European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) has calculated that if mean speeds were to drop by only 1 km/h on all roads across the EU, more than 2200 road deaths could be prevented every year.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/fil...

saaby93

28,123 posts

143 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
bigothunter said:
saaby93 said:
bigothunter said:
By limiting engine power so your speed conforms to the limits. If you override the limiter by pressing the accelerator into its activated heavy zone, an insistent electronic chime will alert you. Speeding will become an unpleasant experience.

Next phase is hard limiters like those already fitted to vans and trucks.
What's the relationship between speed limiters and accident rates?
Nobody knows and of course speed limiters will cause some crashes. But EU are convinced that lower speeds are critical to road safety. Their new rules will apply to UK regardless of Brexit. From link appended:

4.3.1 Safe speed
About one third of fatal crashes are (partly) caused by excessive or inappropriate speed. According to research, the risk to be involved in a crash when speeding is 12.8 times higher than for non-speeders And higher speed crashes cause far more damage than lower speed ones. Based on research results, the European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) has calculated that if mean speeds were to drop by only 1 km/h on all roads across the EU, more than 2200 road deaths could be prevented every year.

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/transport/fil...
Marvellous
what they havent reailsed is that by setting speed limits artificaiily low they increase the number of speeders and hence move more of the accdents into the 'due to speeders' category..
Similarly if they raised speed limits theyd have less accidents in the 'due to speeders' ?

There are others that are more proment in the accident stats notably not looking properly or not paying attention for both drivers and pedestrians and where the road design could do with improving..

article said:
We do not accept deaths in the air, and we should no longer accept them on the road
It would be interesting to see the effect on air fatalities if they'd begun to introduce lower speed limits for planes rather than concentrating on other safety measures.



Edited by saaby93 on Sunday 7th March 00:31

bigothunter

1,001 posts

25 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
Marvellous
what they havent reailsed is that by setting speed limits artificaiily low they increase the number of speeders and hence move more of the accdents into the 'due to speeders' category..
Similarly if they raised speed limits theyd have less accidents in the 'due to speeders' ?
Self fulfilling prophesy administered with a sledgehammer smash


saaby93 said:
It would be interesting to see the effect on air fatalities if they'd begun to introduce lower speed limits for planes rather than concentrating on other safety measures.
They would fall out the sky hehe

slk 32

1,338 posts

158 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
Every day a journey said:
Back in 2007 my beloved car was stolen.

3 days later it 'pinged' the ANPR camera going into Toddington Services.

The thief paid for pretrol (who the hell fuels up at motorway prices???) and then as he entered the entry slip back onto the M1 he was met with a three car stop.

I got my beloved car back.

He went to prison.

I like ANPR.
Let's face it, if you got the car for free, paying motorway service prices isn't going to hurt!

vonhosen

37,373 posts

182 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
Strictly enforced?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
Point taken smile

What are your views on soft speed limiters scheduled for 2022? Some contributors maintain this proposal has been dropped but I can find no evidence of that.
Haven't given them a second thought.
Well you should. Going faster than posted limits could soon become a transgression of the past, making our low 70 motorway limit very significant.
How are soft limiters going to do that?
By limiting engine power so your speed conforms to the limits. If you override the limiter by pressing the accelerator into its activated heavy zone, an insistent electronic chime will alert you. Speeding will become an unpleasant experience.
So in fact not stopping you going faster than the posted limit then (which is what you asserted & hence why I asked the question).
How many drivers will push into a high load accelerator pedal whilst ignoring an insistent electronic chime? Not many and not for long because it's too uncomfortable. The 'problem' of speeding drivers is solved.
Those for who exceeding the speed limit is more important.
You are also ignoring in your 'soon' all of the pre 2022 vehicles on the road that will stay on the road.

vonhosen

37,373 posts

182 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
It would be interesting to see the effect on air fatalities if they'd begun to introduce lower speed limits for planes rather than concentrating on other safety measures.
Cruising speeds have reduced.

saaby93

28,123 posts

143 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
saaby93 said:
It would be interesting to see the effect on air fatalities if they'd begun to introduce lower speed limits for planes rather than concentrating on other safety measures.
Cruising speeds have reduced.
Ah - that will explain the improvement in air safety wink
If cruising speeds were reduced agin - how many lives woud that save?

vonhosen

37,373 posts

182 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
vonhosen said:
saaby93 said:
It would be interesting to see the effect on air fatalities if they'd begun to introduce lower speed limits for planes rather than concentrating on other safety measures.
Cruising speeds have reduced.
Ah - that will explain the improvement in air safety wink
If cruising speeds were reduced agin - how many lives woud that save?
In aviation (as with other things) I doubt it comes down to one single driver when it comes to deciding policy. It's all a multi faceted compromise.

Pan Pan Pan

7,762 posts

76 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
Aircraft are not they same as vehicles when it comes down to speeds.
At each stage of a flight they have an optimum speed, and for the heavies this can change based on aircraft weight.
Generally aircraft are not required to fly slow / fast. For most of the time they are required to fly at and stay at their optimum cruising speed.
Going more slowly is usually reserved for flying through certain conditions, such as clear air turbulence, or when slowing to flap and gear limiting speeds prior to landing.
I am not sure if aircraft provide much in the way of useful comparisons with vehicles, when referring to speeds?

CoolHands

12,593 posts

160 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
bigothunter said:
vonhosen said:
Strictly enforced?
10%+2mph over the limit before any likely action at all & even more for than that for prosecutions.
Couple that with only a small percentage of total transgressions detected.
Point taken smile

What are your views on soft speed limiters scheduled for 2022? Some contributors maintain this proposal has been dropped but I can find no evidence of that.
Haven't given them a second thought.
Well you should. Going faster than posted limits could soon become a transgression of the past, making our low 70 motorway limit very significant.
How are soft limiters going to do that?
By limiting engine power so your speed conforms to the limits. If you override the limiter by pressing the accelerator into its activated heavy zone, an insistent electronic chime will alert you. Speeding will become an unpleasant experience.
So in fact not stopping you going faster than the posted limit then (which is what you asserted & hence why I asked the question).
How many drivers will push into a high load accelerator pedal whilst ignoring an insistent electronic chime? Not many and not for long because it's too uncomfortable. The 'problem' of speeding drivers is solved.
Those for who exceeding the speed limit is more important.
You are also ignoring in your 'soon' all of the pre 2022 vehicles on the road that will stay on the road.
Ohhhhhhhh it’s a biggie - we’re getting into the multi-multi quote territory that the rest of us love!

vonhosen

37,373 posts

182 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
Pan Pan Pan said:
Aircraft are not they same as vehicles when it comes down to speeds.
At each stage of a flight they have an optimum speed, and for the heavies this can change based on aircraft weight.
Generally aircraft are not required to fly slow / fast. For most of the time they are required to fly at and stay at their optimum cruising speed.
Going more slowly is usually reserved for flying through certain conditions, such as clear air turbulence, or when slowing to flap and gear limiting speeds prior to landing.
I am not sure if aircraft provide much in the way of useful comparisons with vehicles, when referring to speeds?
I think the point though is that these things are governed/driven by the desire to achieve results across a spectrum of objectives rather than just focusing on one & that will be true across all transport.
These will include noise, reliability, maintenance, fuel use etc etc. We had faster cruising speeds by design & the emphasis on what is most important is not fixed, it's fluid & as a result the design objectives change.

saaby93

28,123 posts

143 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
Pan Pan Pan said:
Aircraft are not they same as vehicles when it comes down to speeds.
At each stage of a flight they have an optimum speed, and for the heavies this can change based on aircraft weight.
Generally aircraft are not required to fly slow / fast. For most of the time they are required to fly at and stay at their optimum cruising speed.
Going more slowly is usually reserved for flying through certain conditions, such as clear air turbulence, or when slowing to flap and gear limiting speeds prior to landing.
I am not sure if aircraft provide much in the way of useful comparisons with vehicles, when referring to speeds?
How do you feel about letting the EU advisor know that?
Or maybe it is ok and there's an optimum speed for vehicle travel too. scratchchin

Pan Pan Pan

7,762 posts

76 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
saaby93 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Aircraft are not they same as vehicles when it comes down to speeds.
At each stage of a flight they have an optimum speed, and for the heavies this can change based on aircraft weight.
Generally aircraft are not required to fly slow / fast. For most of the time they are required to fly at and stay at their optimum cruising speed.
Going more slowly is usually reserved for flying through certain conditions, such as clear air turbulence, or when slowing to flap and gear limiting speeds prior to landing.
I am not sure if aircraft provide much in the way of useful comparisons with vehicles, when referring to speeds?
How do you feel about letting the EU advisor know that?
Or maybe it is ok and there's an optimum speed for vehicle travel too. scratchchin
Why the EU? Since aircraft are a global transport element, aircraft are controlled overall by the ICAAO.
As for the optimum speed for vehicles that would be a hard one to define, but since the whole point of using motorized vehicles of any kind, is to move from one point on the Earths surface to another faster, more conveniently / comfortably, and safer than is permitted by other means, That would seem to be the basic speed requirement for any type of vehicle, other wise there would seem to be little point in having / using them.

vonhosen

37,373 posts

182 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
Pan Pan Pan said:
saaby93 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Aircraft are not they same as vehicles when it comes down to speeds.
At each stage of a flight they have an optimum speed, and for the heavies this can change based on aircraft weight.
Generally aircraft are not required to fly slow / fast. For most of the time they are required to fly at and stay at their optimum cruising speed.
Going more slowly is usually reserved for flying through certain conditions, such as clear air turbulence, or when slowing to flap and gear limiting speeds prior to landing.
I am not sure if aircraft provide much in the way of useful comparisons with vehicles, when referring to speeds?
How do you feel about letting the EU advisor know that?
Or maybe it is ok and there's an optimum speed for vehicle travel too. scratchchin
Why the EU? Since aircraft are a global transport element, aircraft are controlled overall by the ICAAO.
As for the optimum speed for vehicles that would be a hard one to define, but since the whole point of using motorized vehicles of any kind, is to move from one point on the Earths surface to another faster, more conveniently / comfortably, and safer than is permitted by other means, That would seem to be the basic speed requirement for any type of vehicle, other wise there would seem to be little point in having / using them.
We had the technology, eg with Concorde half a century ago, to do it a lot quicker than we do currently, but like I say it's a compromise & not just about as fast as what's possible. There are other motivators beside outright speed.

bigothunter

1,001 posts

25 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
bigothunter said:
How many drivers will push into a high load accelerator pedal whilst ignoring an insistent electronic chime? Not many and not for long because it's too uncomfortable. The 'problem' of speeding drivers is solved.
vonhosen said:
Those for who exceeding the speed limit is more important.
You are also ignoring in your 'soon' all of the pre 2022 vehicles on the road that will stay on the road.
Soon new cars will be sat in front of you on the motorway at a constant 70mph (except for those driven by masochists who enjoy discomfort). Just like trucks do today at 56mph.

vonhosen

37,373 posts

182 months

Sunday 7th March
quotequote all
bigothunter said:
bigothunter said:
How many drivers will push into a high load accelerator pedal whilst ignoring an insistent electronic chime? Not many and not for long because it's too uncomfortable. The 'problem' of speeding drivers is solved.
vonhosen said:
Those for who exceeding the speed limit is more important.
You are also ignoring in your 'soon' all of the pre 2022 vehicles on the road that will stay on the road.
Soon new cars will be sat in front of you on the motorway at a constant 70mph (except for those driven by masochists who enjoy discomfort). Just like trucks do today at 56mph.
That's no different to now.
Some doing 70 & some doing less than 70 too.
To be honest I worry more about the times I'm sat still on motorways or in stop start traffic than when I'm able to do a constant 70.