RE: GMA reveals 725hp T.50s 'Niki Lauda'
Discussion
Schermerhorn said:
...and spend even more money on tooling and head hunting people etc just to get (perhaps) an inferior product?
No thanks.
Everyone has their own skill set and should recognise their own limits.
GMA did the right thing.
Indeed. Division of Labour, it’s been happening for centuries. No thanks.
Everyone has their own skill set and should recognise their own limits.
GMA did the right thing.
Why would you invest in the design, manufacturing and testing tools, plus all the human skills required, to build a few dozen engines - when there are companies like Cosworth, Judd, Ricardo, Ilmor/Mercedes, all in the UK with extensive engineering and production experience of high performance engines?
Penguinracer said:
It's a bit disappointing that for the purchase price GMA are not designing and building their own transmission & engine.
Outsourcing to someone else & writing a cheque is an easy out.
I can't ever imagine Gordon Murray casting blocks himself like John Britton - I doubt he's ever cast anything in his life.
He'll be using Michelin for tyres next.Outsourcing to someone else & writing a cheque is an easy out.
I can't ever imagine Gordon Murray casting blocks himself like John Britton - I doubt he's ever cast anything in his life.
J4CKO said:
ManyMotors said:
I don't get all the love for Murray. He's old, has old ideas and used them to build a racecar. And, though the specific output of the mill is impressive, it is still significantly lower than many Stellantis offerings. Yet the dopes croon, "Oh,,,Gordon!"
Are you comparing specific output from an NA engine with a turbocharged one ?ManyMotors said:
J4CKO said:
ManyMotors said:
I don't get all the love for Murray. He's old, has old ideas and used them to build a racecar. And, though the specific output of the mill is impressive, it is still significantly lower than many Stellantis offerings. Yet the dopes croon, "Oh,,,Gordon!"
Are you comparing specific output from an NA engine with a turbocharged one ?
ManyMotors said:
J4CKO said:
ManyMotors said:
I don't get all the love for Murray. He's old, has old ideas and used them to build a racecar. And, though the specific output of the mill is impressive, it is still significantly lower than many Stellantis offerings. Yet the dopes croon, "Oh,,,Gordon!"
Are you comparing specific output from an NA engine with a turbocharged one ?Which Stellantis engines have higher specific capacity, and how does the bhp/kg figure compare? Litres of cylinder space weigh nothing...
Who makes Koenigsegg's 600bhp/2litre/3cyl? I think they make at least the camless valve train themselves. That's some seriously innovative engineering going on either way at a similar price point. I wouldn't have any problem with my T50 having a Cossy engine, IMO the heritage and institutional IP make it more desirable than a GMA one!
ManyMotors said:
J4CKO said:
ManyMotors said:
I don't get all the love for Murray. He's old, has old ideas and used them to build a racecar. And, though the specific output of the mill is impressive, it is still significantly lower than many Stellantis offerings. Yet the dopes croon, "Oh,,,Gordon!"
Are you comparing specific output from an NA engine with a turbocharged one ?fblm said:
Who makes Koenigsegg's 600bhp/2litre/3cyl? I think they make at least the camless valve train themselves. That's some seriously innovative engineering going on either way at a similar price point. I wouldn't have any problem with my T50 having a Cossy engine, IMO the heritage and institutional IP make it more desirable than a GMA one!
The camless stuff is a continuation of Lotus' old omnivore test bed isn't it? I don't think there's anything particularly proprietary about it, I'd have thought it used the same Moog actuators as are used for a range of motorsport applications.
Sway said:
The camless stuff is a continuation of Lotus' old omnivore test bed isn't it?
I don't think there's anything particularly proprietary about it, I'd have thought it used the same Moog actuators as are used for a range of motorsport applications.
I don't think so Ksegg system is pneumatic not hydraulic. They've spun it off into a company called freevalveI don't think there's anything particularly proprietary about it, I'd have thought it used the same Moog actuators as are used for a range of motorsport applications.
fblm said:
Sway said:
The camless stuff is a continuation of Lotus' old omnivore test bed isn't it?
I don't think there's anything particularly proprietary about it, I'd have thought it used the same Moog actuators as are used for a range of motorsport applications.
I don't think so Ksegg system is pneumatic not hydraulic. They've spun it off into a company called freevalveI don't think there's anything particularly proprietary about it, I'd have thought it used the same Moog actuators as are used for a range of motorsport applications.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Can't help but feel this isn't as innovative as Gordon is suggesting.
In pure engineering terms, seeing the czinger 21 body off, and its additive manufacturing process seems more of a next step than the components that GMA have assembled - impressive as they may be.
Is that the car that weighs quarter of a tonne more than the road going T50? In pure engineering terms, seeing the czinger 21 body off, and its additive manufacturing process seems more of a next step than the components that GMA have assembled - impressive as they may be.
ManyMotors said:
J4CKO said:
ManyMotors said:
I don't get all the love for Murray. He's old, has old ideas and used them to build a racecar. And, though the specific output of the mill is impressive, it is still significantly lower than many Stellantis offerings. Yet the dopes croon, "Oh,,,Gordon!"
Are you comparing specific output from an NA engine with a turbocharged one ?“Weak” how? Not high enough BMEP? Not strong enough structurally? Prone to failure? Precisely which aspect of Cosworth’s design is “weak” from your point of view?
You do know the main difference between a turbo vs supercharged engine? Superchargers absorb horsepower? 1000 in the extreme case of a Top Fuel dragster
Edited by Baddie on Wednesday 24th February 21:38
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Can't help but feel this isn't as innovative as Gordon is suggesting.
In pure engineering terms, seeing the czinger 21 body off, and its additive manufacturing process seems more of a next step than the components that GMA have assembled - impressive as they may be.
Is that the car that weighs quarter of a tonne more than the road going T50? In pure engineering terms, seeing the czinger 21 body off, and its additive manufacturing process seems more of a next step than the components that GMA have assembled - impressive as they may be.
gigglebug said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Can't help but feel this isn't as innovative as Gordon is suggesting.
In pure engineering terms, seeing the czinger 21 body off, and its additive manufacturing process seems more of a next step than the components that GMA have assembled - impressive as they may be.
Is that the car that weighs quarter of a tonne more than the road going T50? In pure engineering terms, seeing the czinger 21 body off, and its additive manufacturing process seems more of a next step than the components that GMA have assembled - impressive as they may be.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
gigglebug said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Can't help but feel this isn't as innovative as Gordon is suggesting.
In pure engineering terms, seeing the czinger 21 body off, and its additive manufacturing process seems more of a next step than the components that GMA have assembled - impressive as they may be.
Is that the car that weighs quarter of a tonne more than the road going T50? In pure engineering terms, seeing the czinger 21 body off, and its additive manufacturing process seems more of a next step than the components that GMA have assembled - impressive as they may be.
Gordon prides himself in his systems thinking and design innovation and references this approach several times. He may simply not have mentioned it in his presentations but I don't see that much cutting edge innovation.
When I look at the czinger (and for the record I'd rather have a t50) as an engineer I'm blown away by some of its features. The t50... Less so... I see a collection of very carefully honed current tech.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Then you've missed my point entirely. I'm talking manufacturing and technology. To some degree the cars are irrelevant.
Gordon prides himself in his systems thinking and design innovation and references this approach several times. He may simply not have mentioned it in his presentations but I don't see that much cutting edge innovation.
When I look at the czinger (and for the record I'd rather have a t50) as an engineer I'm blown away by some of its features. The t50... Less so... I see a collection of very carefully honed current tech.
Don't waste your time, he's just looking for an argument..Gordon prides himself in his systems thinking and design innovation and references this approach several times. He may simply not have mentioned it in his presentations but I don't see that much cutting edge innovation.
When I look at the czinger (and for the record I'd rather have a t50) as an engineer I'm blown away by some of its features. The t50... Less so... I see a collection of very carefully honed current tech.
Escy said:
They haven't even built the test mules for the road car program yet and they announce this. Call me cynical but maybe they are in trouble and needing a load of deposits?
They have built the test mule. There is a video of it being fired up and driven on YouTube. They have almost finished the build of XP2, which is ironically the first prototype to be built, and is probably finished build by now and is heading off to the Artic circle for winter testing.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff