RE: 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E | PH Road Test
Discussion
Numeric said:
Ford's marketing team has always been rather hit and miss and I think they have missed here - by regurgitating a name they cause comparison which is simply not justified in any way.
This seems a very decent transport device and as these electric cars get better - like this one - suddenly I start to become interested in my companies car scheme again as tax advantages abound and we have to assume fuel tax will rocket (as with smoking, it will be for 'our own good!') .
The question isn't whether this is a good Mustang - it is whether it is a good electric car (and yes I do separate the ICE from the Electric and see them as different classes) and seemingly it is - though the pricing is very high for the brand, yes those penguins in marketing again who only have an eye on their next promotion so never argue with seniors.
SO the question is whether this is best in class? Not sure I really was any the wiser after the article. We could do with road tests like we had in Motor magazine - now they told you all you needed to know.
Numeric makes good points here. Very few of the road tests of this car focus solely on whether it is a good electric car and how it compares to the likes of the iPace, Polestar 2, ID4, Enyaq and, if possible, the Tesla Model Y.This seems a very decent transport device and as these electric cars get better - like this one - suddenly I start to become interested in my companies car scheme again as tax advantages abound and we have to assume fuel tax will rocket (as with smoking, it will be for 'our own good!') .
The question isn't whether this is a good Mustang - it is whether it is a good electric car (and yes I do separate the ICE from the Electric and see them as different classes) and seemingly it is - though the pricing is very high for the brand, yes those penguins in marketing again who only have an eye on their next promotion so never argue with seniors.
SO the question is whether this is best in class? Not sure I really was any the wiser after the article. We could do with road tests like we had in Motor magazine - now they told you all you needed to know.
Most of what has been written has been journalistic blather about whether it is a worthy successor to the Mustang line. Who gives a s
t? It's a big 5 door electric hatchback that, like most of its competitors, weighs over 2 tonnes: there's absolutely no point comparing it to prior Mustangs.sidesauce said:
PhantomPH said:
TACottle said:
Rarely post but...
This is not a Mustang.
Just call it the Ford i-Eco-Power-Tron+ and be done with it.
Not a Mustang.
Not.
A.
Mustang.
Yes it is. It says so on the Ford website. And in the press release. "Mustang Mach-E"...right there in plain English.This is not a Mustang.
Just call it the Ford i-Eco-Power-Tron+ and be done with it.
Not a Mustang.
Not.
A.
Mustang.
(Side note - the touchscreen looks very 'vertical' in the photos. I feel like ergonomically it would be a bit better if it were angled a bit, but I'd have to sit in it to be sure if it's just the way it looks in pics or not)
sidesauce said:
n the other hand... once ICE cars are inevitably outlawed, the Mustang name has IP value which would be wasted in Ford didn't continue using it. Furthermore, most younger people (ie Gen Z) associate the brand name with something older people drive (even if is is a name they might recognise); the heritage the Mustang has holds zero historical importance or relevance to them as they're all about Tesla and BEV cars in general, not ICE'd dinosaurs!
So I disagree - Ford have done the right thing and by making this have anticipated the sea change that's taking place allowing a recognised name to live on. 50 years from now ICE'd cars will be a curio/niche thing, in the West at least, but Mustang will still be a brand.
I agree that the Mustang name means literally nothing to millenials or younger except that it's something old people are into. So I disagree - Ford have done the right thing and by making this have anticipated the sea change that's taking place allowing a recognised name to live on. 50 years from now ICE'd cars will be a curio/niche thing, in the West at least, but Mustang will still be a brand.
That being the case, if I were Ford, it would be the absolute last thing I would call it. Trendy young early adopters do not want to buy what their parents do.
As for the car, it's a derivative looking EV crossover box from a respected mass market manufacturer which is decent enough to drive. Daft name aside, it'll still sell.
What's with the people claiming all over the internet that EVs are marketed to and bought by Gen Z/young people?
From a 2019 survey: "The age breakdown for buyers of electric vehicles based on a January 2019 survey is as follows: <1% are 24 and younger, 46% are 25-54, 22% are 55-64, and 32% are 65 and older. "
That is pretty much the same (only slightly younger) demographic you get with ICEs. Additionally, if other surveys are anything to go by, the 25-35 bracket only accounts for about 10% of sales. So Gen Z buys whole 1% of cars and anyone that can be considered young buys a grand total of 11% of all cars.
What Gen Z/young people think or want is completely irrelevant at the moment and is not gonna become relevant until at least 10-15 years in the future, but really not making a great impact for the next 20-25 years.
As for this "Mustang", apart from destroying a good brand name to market one model, there is really not much to say about it. It's definitely not "sporty", it's not a driver's car, it's just a heavy SUV, just like all the other SUVs. Should I weep with joy that it doesn't roll over every time I try to steer it? That really seems to be the bar these days. It's as if because so many cars offered today are 2t+ SUVs, you were now expected to ignore their shortcomings and carry on like actual good driving cars didn't exist. As if lots of people buying bad cars changed the definition of what's good and what's not.
From a 2019 survey: "The age breakdown for buyers of electric vehicles based on a January 2019 survey is as follows: <1% are 24 and younger, 46% are 25-54, 22% are 55-64, and 32% are 65 and older. "
That is pretty much the same (only slightly younger) demographic you get with ICEs. Additionally, if other surveys are anything to go by, the 25-35 bracket only accounts for about 10% of sales. So Gen Z buys whole 1% of cars and anyone that can be considered young buys a grand total of 11% of all cars.
What Gen Z/young people think or want is completely irrelevant at the moment and is not gonna become relevant until at least 10-15 years in the future, but really not making a great impact for the next 20-25 years.
As for this "Mustang", apart from destroying a good brand name to market one model, there is really not much to say about it. It's definitely not "sporty", it's not a driver's car, it's just a heavy SUV, just like all the other SUVs. Should I weep with joy that it doesn't roll over every time I try to steer it? That really seems to be the bar these days. It's as if because so many cars offered today are 2t+ SUVs, you were now expected to ignore their shortcomings and carry on like actual good driving cars didn't exist. As if lots of people buying bad cars changed the definition of what's good and what's not.
Edited by Isebac on Saturday 27th February 23:42
Isebac said:
What Gen Z/young people think or want is completely irrelevant at the moment and is not gonna become relevant until at least 10-15 years in the future, but really not making a great impact for the next 20-25 years.
Thus proving my point - more than anything else, Ford knows that at some point they would have to either retire the name or push it over to a BEV model. Evidently they've decided it was better to jump early.It may be a decent electric SUV (as far as electric SUV's go, they don't interest me enough to compare with each other) but calling it a Mustang is an own-goal IMO.
If they made an electric sports/GT car of similar style to the petrol powered Mustang then that might be accepted by more people, but a generic blob shaped e-SUV? Its a bit like putting a LandRover badge on a sportscar, or a Ferrari badge on a small fwd diesel hatch.
It invites comparison with all the previous Mustangs, which is unlikely to be favourable in most regards as its a completely different type of vehicle.
It also weakens the current and future value of the Mustang brand by breaking ties with its traditional values - they were probably trying to capitalise on that brand value, but they're sabotaging it instead for a bit of short-term attention (and as others have mentioned, most media attention seems more focussed on whether its 'really' a Mustang than whether its actually any good).
I think most people will see it for what it is - empty marketing blather.
If they made an electric sports/GT car of similar style to the petrol powered Mustang then that might be accepted by more people, but a generic blob shaped e-SUV? Its a bit like putting a LandRover badge on a sportscar, or a Ferrari badge on a small fwd diesel hatch.
It invites comparison with all the previous Mustangs, which is unlikely to be favourable in most regards as its a completely different type of vehicle.
It also weakens the current and future value of the Mustang brand by breaking ties with its traditional values - they were probably trying to capitalise on that brand value, but they're sabotaging it instead for a bit of short-term attention (and as others have mentioned, most media attention seems more focussed on whether its 'really' a Mustang than whether its actually any good).
I think most people will see it for what it is - empty marketing blather.
SDK said:
DonkeyApple said:
Much more palatable. You've got to really love Ford though. The Fiesta and Focus are massive sellers because they are great products at the price point where most Ford consumers are. Above their levels you can see that the bulk of consumers opt for the other German products.
Well that's why they went with the Mustang name, because a £40-£60k Ford is a hard sell.Isebac said:
As for this "Mustang", apart from destroying a good brand name to market one model, there is really not much to say about it. It's definitely not "sporty", it's not a driver's car, it's just a heavy SUV, just like all the other SUVs. Should I weep with joy that it doesn't roll over every time I try to steer it? That really seems to be the bar these days. It's as if because so many cars offered today are 2t+ SUVs, you were now expected to ignore their shortcomings and carry on like actual good driving cars didn't exist. As if lots of people buying bad cars changed the definition of what's good and what's not.
I don't get your rationale here. Our SUV is not 2 tons, it is 1,250kg, which is 400kgs less than a 4 pot 2.3 Mustang and almost half a ton (!) less than a V8 Mustang. It is even 250kgs lighter than the car I track. Do you reckon buying a SUV means you can only have one car?
Plenty of people have a SUV and a Caterham/Lotus. They even sometimes use one to tow the other.
There is no need to ignore the shortcomings, SUVs are family cars, not track weapons.
I certainly wouldn't choose a Mustang ICE as a "good driving car" but I have no issues if someone does. There is clearly no definition of what's good or not.
Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 28th February 07:02
Clivey said:
If the product is really all that, why does it need to borrow the identity of the manufacturer's past glories? Isn't it good enough to create it's own brand identity? I mean, they didn't call the original Mustang a Model T, did they? 
Which is a perfectly valid argument but I don't think the name aspect is specifically related to the product but rather that the reasoning behind it is that using that name is the clearest and boldest means for the Ford brand to underpin its intentions to sell rebadged VWs going forward. 
The name has been sacrificed in this regard to promote the impending range of lesser products. Just as the Mustang name has been used to sell their conventional wares for decades so this adaptation will sell the new generation of wares.
And let's face it, they've been whoring the Mustang brand from day one anyway with the bulk of all cars ever built being 4 pots. Let's not kid ourselves, despite the mentions of V8 Mustangs on here, despite the iconic early cars and despite the brilliant, of plasticy, current cars the real Mustang is a turgid, nasty, cheap 4 pot that anyone who is remotely a perrolhead would have shot to put it out of its misery.
I don't think we should be too outraged at what Ford have just done to the name when they've been bending it over and raping the crap out of it for nigh on 50 years.
Jader1973 said:
Exactly. GM have resurrected Hummer for their GMC EV for the same reason.
Hummers were SUV tanks to start with and 1992 is still a very young brand.Mustangs may have been a river of mediocrity, much like the Capri but have to be viewed compared to their peers where they have always been not only competitive but great value. A crap four banger was cheap and offered style if not performance.
Mustangs have been blue collar icons for that reason, style - coupes, fastbacks and convertibles.
There again, maybe Mustangs have been creeping upmarket in the past decade and are no longer bargains. Gone are the crap engines to be replaced by powerful turbo fours, a powerful V6 and a powerful V8 but will forever be associated with a type of car and most Mustang buyers won't be much interested in an EV.
I think the equivalent of trying to drum up a better image is Citroen's use of the DS to create a luxury brand but I'm not sure that worked, either.
A Winner Is You said:
That dash tablet looks utterly ridiculous. How can using a mobile phone whilst driving be incredibly dangerous, but something like that is perfectly fine?
pretty much this ^^^ talk about getting the driver to needlessly take their eyes off the road (to be fair that seems to be able to be applied to just about every car on the road these days), IMO the 'dashboard' looks pretty horrendous too.externally the car isn't offensive (though it could look better!) and as others have said calling it a Mustang does (seem) to mean that FMC can charge
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