RE: Gordon Murray: 'Last flag-waver of a great V12'
Discussion
Hi,
So the only solution to see T43 hit the road one day would rely on a major automotive group deciding to revive a glory of the past (Stellantis/Abarth, Stellantis/Lancia ?) or create a showcase for an existing brand (Ford, Stellantis/Alfa Romeo)...
I guess this probably won't happen, then.
Éric
leef44 said:
This concept is still for sale and in the interview he said they are not considering mass car production business.
<snip>
I get the point and completely understand his reluctance.<snip>
So the only solution to see T43 hit the road one day would rely on a major automotive group deciding to revive a glory of the past (Stellantis/Abarth, Stellantis/Lancia ?) or create a showcase for an existing brand (Ford, Stellantis/Alfa Romeo)...
I guess this probably won't happen, then.
Éric
Uncle John said:
I get it with Murray, but all the faux staged cheesiness does get tiring.
+1. So much hype, and it's seemingly like that with everything he does. It will be unpopular to criticise someone with a list of accomplishments as illustrious as his - but I'm finding so much drip feeding of his projects to be tedious now. I don't think I've seen any of his contributions actually on the road - it's not relevant enough to me for me to emotionally invest in the drip feed. Does he really need to do that to find buyers? The latest was a "virtual drive" of the T50 in Evo - that was a hype/BS tipping point for me. Might as well do a track review via Gran Turismo then.I'm sure that the T50 will be amazing though. If/when it actually arrives.
BurtonLazars said:
How many Lithuanian models and carry-on luggage can you fit in an Ultima? How would the journey be from London to Le Mans?
Many owners take there cars over to le man's with luggage, there is a spare seat for a girl, if u need more hire one at other end, u have not replied actually about what I asked just made up some nonsense response. redroadster said:
Many owners take there cars over to le man's with luggage, there is a spare seat for a girl, if u need more hire one at other end, u have not replied actually about what I asked just made up some nonsense response.
It wasn’t a nonsense response - my point is that you can’t be serious that a T50 and an ultima are comparable cars to be bought by the same type of person? Totally rediculous comparison, whether or not they have the same power/ weight.(I’m with you on the “if it flies, floats, or f
ks - hire it”, though 
)hornbaek said:
BurtonLazars said:
hornbaek said:
Sad that all his talent is spent on something that is past its sell by date the day it roles out of the factory door. The F1 was ahead of its time and still today is pushing the envelope of what is possible with a naturally aspirated engine combining all the aero, lightness and drive ability into one design that is defying the passage of time.
Can you confirm you’re saying (?) that “the T50 is past its sell by date”, but the F1 is “still today pushing the envelope of what’s possible”? And that you think the F1 has better “aero, lightness and drive ability” than the T50.hornbaek said:
Sadly with this new one he is at the dinosaur end of the V12 engine. Imagine if he had built something with the vision of the F1 that he had at the time.
Are you suggesting the T50 should have been an EV?BurtonLazars said:
It wasn’t a nonsense response - my point is that you can’t be serious that a T50 and an ultima are comparable cars to be bought by the same type of person? Totally rediculous comparison, whether or not they have the same power/ weight.
(I’m with you on the “if it flies, floats, or fks - hire it”, though )
Just like all performance cars are tested against each other, I'm suggesting that the ultima would against the clock be as quick as multi million pound cars, so yes I think it's a relevant point, people buying these super cars are not using them to there potential they are investors just like buying art pieces, for more normal people or joint buyers an ultima is use able and affordable with prob same exhilaration just not the high tech or snob value.(I’m with you on the “if it flies, floats, or f
ks - hire it”, though )redroadster said:
BurtonLazars said:
It wasn’t a nonsense response - my point is that you can’t be serious that a T50 and an ultima are comparable cars to be bought by the same type of person? Totally rediculous comparison, whether or not they have the same power/ weight.
(I’m with you on the “if it flies, floats, or fks - hire it”, though )
Just like all performance cars are tested against each other, I'm suggesting that the ultima would against the clock be as quick as multi million pound cars, so yes I think it's a relevant point, people buying these super cars are not using them to there potential they are investors just like buying art pieces, for more normal people or joint buyers an ultima is use able and affordable with prob same exhilaration just not the high tech or snob value.(I’m with you on the “if it flies, floats, or f
ks - hire it”, though )redroadster said:
Just like all performance cars are tested against each other, I'm suggesting that the ultima would against the clock be as quick as multi million pound cars, so yes I think it's a relevant point, people buying these super cars are not using them to there potential they are investors just like buying art pieces, for more normal people or joint buyers an ultima is use able and affordable with prob same exhilaration just not the high tech or snob value.
What would you learn from a road test of ultima vs T50? (Let’s assume the outcome is that the ultima is slightly faster around a track, at 0-60, and 0-100-0)?I disagree that an ultima is as useable as a T50. ...but I agree with your point that an ultima gives access to a t50 “like” track driving experience.
Edited by BurtonLazars on Monday 1st March 13:29
_Neal_ said:
robsco said:
GM is a master of self promotion; full of his own importance (and rightfully so!), a few poetically judged statements and namedropping the F1 and he has keyboard warriors globally squeezing their tinkles. This car is an astonishing achievement, but it is a trinket. The majority will be kept stored, never to see the light of day. Removing the emotion, it is nowhere near as great an achievement as a manufacturer that can build a high quality family car that can sustain years and years of abuse, over hundreds of thousands of miles in radically changing conditions, whilst doing so profitably and on a huge scale.
That's not to take away from the fact that this is the most exciting project probably since the F1, I sincerely hope GM is around to see the first customer cars delivered.
Good post, agree with all that. I've struggled to read anything GM comes out with for a little while now to be honest. Since an Article in (I think Evo) back in the mid 2000s where he said (I'm paraphrasing) "Horacio Pagani is incredible, he reminds me of me" it's all been much of the same. That's not to take away from the fact that this is the most exciting project probably since the F1, I sincerely hope GM is around to see the first customer cars delivered.
SpeckledJim said:
_Neal_ said:
robsco said:
GM is a master of self promotion; full of his own importance (and rightfully so!), a few poetically judged statements and namedropping the F1 and he has keyboard warriors globally squeezing their tinkles. This car is an astonishing achievement, but it is a trinket. The majority will be kept stored, never to see the light of day. Removing the emotion, it is nowhere near as great an achievement as a manufacturer that can build a high quality family car that can sustain years and years of abuse, over hundreds of thousands of miles in radically changing conditions, whilst doing so profitably and on a huge scale.
That's not to take away from the fact that this is the most exciting project probably since the F1, I sincerely hope GM is around to see the first customer cars delivered.
Good post, agree with all that. I've struggled to read anything GM comes out with for a little while now to be honest. Since an Article in (I think Evo) back in the mid 2000s where he said (I'm paraphrasing) "Horacio Pagani is incredible, he reminds me of me" it's all been much of the same. That's not to take away from the fact that this is the most exciting project probably since the F1, I sincerely hope GM is around to see the first customer cars delivered.
The T50 just puts me in mind of a Greatest Hits album. You know you're going to love it, it will have all the old favourites, maybe a token new track here and there to promote sales - but nothing really new that moves things forward. The tracks have gone from cutting edge to "classic", and others have stepped forward to move the game on.
BurtonLazars said:
redroadster said:
Just like all performance cars are tested against each other, I'm suggesting that the ultima would against the clock be as quick as multi million pound cars, so yes I think it's a relevant point, people buying these super cars are not using them to there potential they are investors just like buying art pieces, for more normal people or joint buyers an ultima is use able and affordable with prob same exhilaration just not the high tech or snob value.
What would you learn from a road test of ultima vs T50? (Let’s assume the outcome is that the ultima is slightly faster around a track, at 0-60, and 0-100-0)?I disagree that an ultima is as useable as a T50. ...but I agree with your point that an ultima gives access to a t50 “like” track driving experience.
Edited by BurtonLazars on Monday 1st March 13:29
BurtonLazars said:
ThePackMan said:
How can you say that when a T50 hasn't even turned a wheel?
Power to weight ratio and “like” being a fuzzy term. I was trying to show understood the point of view of the person to whom I was replying. I don’t agree with it, of course.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff