Run a car to end of its life
Discussion
In that case I routinely keep cars until they are end of life from nearly new.
Seat Córdoba 1.9tdi bought 1 year old, 6k miles. Sold at 165k miles as you couldn’t turn the heater on without coolant evaporating into the car. Garages all said that it looked like a bodged repair with a non standard part even though the previous keeper was Seat UK.
V50 D5 bought at 3 years old, 27k miles, sold privately at 180k miles and 11 years old. I was getting trade in offers of £300 for it and it needed a new battery harness.
Current 530d bought after the v50 again 3 years old. Now on 45k miles as not doing so many with lockdown but still on about 10k a year. Won’t be changing it until it stops.
Seat Córdoba 1.9tdi bought 1 year old, 6k miles. Sold at 165k miles as you couldn’t turn the heater on without coolant evaporating into the car. Garages all said that it looked like a bodged repair with a non standard part even though the previous keeper was Seat UK.
V50 D5 bought at 3 years old, 27k miles, sold privately at 180k miles and 11 years old. I was getting trade in offers of £300 for it and it needed a new battery harness.
Current 530d bought after the v50 again 3 years old. Now on 45k miles as not doing so many with lockdown but still on about 10k a year. Won’t be changing it until it stops.
I suppose if you're looking at the end of a cars life being when it throws up a bill that costs significantly more than it's worth or maybe even equal to what it's worth but maybe it depends on the cost of the car.
So you take that Micra that's mentioned further up, maybe an 'expensive' bill is relative to that car so an owner would gladly pay a few hundred quid here and there to keep it going. Where as maybe you take something more complex like a high end BMW or Merc where on a £1,500 car you might get a £2k bill and that finishes it off.
I have a 13 year old S Class bought with 66k on the clock. Despite their complexities they certainly seem to cover plenty of miles so if you're prepared to repair things that inevitably need fixing it will last 100k more. Depends if someone is going to pay that in the future, will that be me? We'll see.
So you take that Micra that's mentioned further up, maybe an 'expensive' bill is relative to that car so an owner would gladly pay a few hundred quid here and there to keep it going. Where as maybe you take something more complex like a high end BMW or Merc where on a £1,500 car you might get a £2k bill and that finishes it off.
I have a 13 year old S Class bought with 66k on the clock. Despite their complexities they certainly seem to cover plenty of miles so if you're prepared to repair things that inevitably need fixing it will last 100k more. Depends if someone is going to pay that in the future, will that be me? We'll see.
colin86 said:
Was thinking today does anyone buy a new/nearly new car and run it till the end of its life ?
Define end of life? What kills cars ? The next repair, costing more than.the car is worth.
If you look after a car, spend money on it, fix the faults, service it, repair it, and replace anything as it wears. Then it's only rust that kills them. Buy a welder. Use rust proofing.
Basically you can make a cars life last longer than.yiu think as long as you spend the cash.
Lincsls1 said:
My current daily is a 15 year old Astra diesel with 152k miles on it.
To many, its just a knackered old shed, in reality, its a perfectly good car with plenty of life in it.
It drives really well for what it is, its comfy, economical and actually very reliable. There is zero rust on the shell too. Its laughable good, but is worth nothing in terms of pounds and pence.
Because its worth nothing, I cannot justify getting rid of what is still a totally dependable and solid vehicle. It just makes no sense at all. I plan to take it to 200k and see how its doing, based on how it feels and 152k I'm guessing it'll be just fine.
I haven't owned this from new but it passed this milestone a few weeks back. It'll probably last longer than I'll own it as it is SO boring but so capable and perfect for what I need it to do at the mo.To many, its just a knackered old shed, in reality, its a perfectly good car with plenty of life in it.
It drives really well for what it is, its comfy, economical and actually very reliable. There is zero rust on the shell too. Its laughable good, but is worth nothing in terms of pounds and pence.
Because its worth nothing, I cannot justify getting rid of what is still a totally dependable and solid vehicle. It just makes no sense at all. I plan to take it to 200k and see how its doing, based on how it feels and 152k I'm guessing it'll be just fine.
Pit Pony said:
Define end of life?
What kills cars ? The next repair, costing more than.the car is worth.
If you look after a car, spend money on it, fix the faults, service it, repair it, and replace anything as it wears. Then it's only rust that kills them. Buy a welder. Use rust proofing.
Basically you can make a cars life last longer than.yiu think as long as you spend the cash.
This is entirely correct.What kills cars ? The next repair, costing more than.the car is worth.
If you look after a car, spend money on it, fix the faults, service it, repair it, and replace anything as it wears. Then it's only rust that kills them. Buy a welder. Use rust proofing.
Basically you can make a cars life last longer than.yiu think as long as you spend the cash.
In reality, most ordinary folk get rid of their cars well before genuine end of life. Like decades before.
Most cars, certainly post 2000 can do 250k miles easily with the odd splash of cash as required. Even when that splash of cash turns out to be worth more than the car, the truth is it will be much less than buying another.
And we all know that new and nearly new cars have issues too.
,
Every day a journey said:
Depends how you determine 'End of life'
You could pick up a new car and cash it and destroy it within 5 minutes.
You could pick up a new 530d as your company car and it spectacularly disintegrates in year three of the lease rendering it worthless. (This happened. Was hilarious. Except I was in Scotland and live in Sussex)
What happened there? I ask as my dad used to use an E60 530d at work that needed four engines to make it to 120,000 miles. I've had use of a G31 530d at work recently that hasn't shown any signs of blowing up yet so I'm hopeful it will last. You could pick up a new car and cash it and destroy it within 5 minutes.
You could pick up a new 530d as your company car and it spectacularly disintegrates in year three of the lease rendering it worthless. (This happened. Was hilarious. Except I was in Scotland and live in Sussex)
I've just sent my 944 up for some rust removal before it gets too bad. Currently on 272k miles and 31 years old. I have every intention of just keeping using it until whatever comes next needs fixing. Not quite your average banger but not really that old.
Plenty of vintage stuff out there that gets reasonable use.
Plenty of vintage stuff out there that gets reasonable use.
My wife’s SLK we bought new in 2003 and it’ll stay with us for ever most likely. Not been in regular use for several years now but it’s on about 113k miles. I’ve never liked it as a car but have a lot of respect for it as it’s never let us down despite a fair bit of abuse in early years. More recently the abuse has been that it’s sat unused for nearly a year own the end of other drive.
Today as it happens I got into it to start doing a bit of recommissioning. Opened the bonnet to find a mouse sat on the cam cover who was as startled as me and shot off only to reappear a bit later when I was washing the engine bay down. His dead mate was under the brake fluid reservoir and they’d made their nest between the bonnet liner and the bonnet itself. The liner has now been binned and it’s had a good jet wash all over and in the engine bay too. Other than the liner (new one en route) I can’t see any other mouse damage so fingers crossed.
Today as it happens I got into it to start doing a bit of recommissioning. Opened the bonnet to find a mouse sat on the cam cover who was as startled as me and shot off only to reappear a bit later when I was washing the engine bay down. His dead mate was under the brake fluid reservoir and they’d made their nest between the bonnet liner and the bonnet itself. The liner has now been binned and it’s had a good jet wash all over and in the engine bay too. Other than the liner (new one en route) I can’t see any other mouse damage so fingers crossed.
I've had an 2007 Focus ST since 2008.
She's not doing very many miles these days, I think 3k in the last 18 months and only cost me a set of rear brake pads extra at the last service.
Tax is becoming the biggest cost. But then I look at the tax on new ~£50k cars and think maybe it's not that bad, I'll keep it another year.
She's not doing very many miles these days, I think 3k in the last 18 months and only cost me a set of rear brake pads extra at the last service.
Tax is becoming the biggest cost. But then I look at the tax on new ~£50k cars and think maybe it's not that bad, I'll keep it another year.
I've owned my car for the last 11 years, on average I hit 4k per year...the result is a 16 yr old car with less than 80k on the clock.
Not sure it's actually possible for me to run it into the ground as it gets a regular service and I've seen plenty of the same/similar models in the classifieds with over 150k without breaking a sweat and looking more pristine than mine. It's been ragged silly; regular cold starts, lots of tip runs with building and garden waste plus other crap that we accumulate in life..yet it just keeps going and going.
I like my cars as do many other PHers but when you average 4k per year..maybe 5k at a push then it's hard to justify putting in too much cash into something that will sit on the drive for the majority of 5/6 days per week.
Rust will eventually kill it but doubt it will be anytime soon, I will still move it on eventually as need more practicality and driving the same car for more than 10 years is getting a bit boring now!
Not sure it's actually possible for me to run it into the ground as it gets a regular service and I've seen plenty of the same/similar models in the classifieds with over 150k without breaking a sweat and looking more pristine than mine. It's been ragged silly; regular cold starts, lots of tip runs with building and garden waste plus other crap that we accumulate in life..yet it just keeps going and going.
I like my cars as do many other PHers but when you average 4k per year..maybe 5k at a push then it's hard to justify putting in too much cash into something that will sit on the drive for the majority of 5/6 days per week.
Rust will eventually kill it but doubt it will be anytime soon, I will still move it on eventually as need more practicality and driving the same car for more than 10 years is getting a bit boring now!
Edited by VR99 on Sunday 28th February 22:12
My main cars tend to be bought when they are nearing the end of their life, then I try and squeeze a few more years out of them!
My current car is a 306 GTI-6 bought for £700 with 128k on it. Four years on, it's now approaching 170k. I have serviced it once in that time (including a new timing belt), and it continues to be utterly dependable.
It got written off in 2018 after someone pulled out of a junction without looking and put a nice dent in the offside rear quarter panel. His insurance paid out almost three times what I paid for the car, and I then bought it back for £137 and pushed the dent out myself.
It's been a ridiculously cheap car to own, and the longer it lasts, the more value I get out of it.
My current car is a 306 GTI-6 bought for £700 with 128k on it. Four years on, it's now approaching 170k. I have serviced it once in that time (including a new timing belt), and it continues to be utterly dependable.
It got written off in 2018 after someone pulled out of a junction without looking and put a nice dent in the offside rear quarter panel. His insurance paid out almost three times what I paid for the car, and I then bought it back for £137 and pushed the dent out myself.
It's been a ridiculously cheap car to own, and the longer it lasts, the more value I get out of it.
The newest car I've bought was 12 years old, so no
My parents bought a brand new Nissan Micra K11 in 1996 on a P reg. Came with something like 3 years free insurance with no age limit, with me and two siblings all lining up to learn to drive in that window it was an easy purchase decision.
They decided to scrap it in the 2000/10 scrappage scheme, wanted to get an economical diesel and the £2k scrappage was more than it was otherwise worth in p/x.
I thought it was a shame, but it was a sensible financial decision and it's an example of a car having a single owner from showroom to scrap yard.
My first car was the Fiat Uno that my parents bought new about 10 years earlier. Got another 4 years out of it, before the minor bits of welding to get it through MOTs turned into major work needed.
My daughter is 6 and I’m thinking about getting a Zoe or similar to do the same with - run for a decade then pass on.
My dad had company cars for decades but since that finished he bought a Honda Civic wagon with the super simple, reliable 1.8 petrol and auto gearbox. It’ll probably outlast him.
My daughter is 6 and I’m thinking about getting a Zoe or similar to do the same with - run for a decade then pass on.
My dad had company cars for decades but since that finished he bought a Honda Civic wagon with the super simple, reliable 1.8 petrol and auto gearbox. It’ll probably outlast him.
Lincsls1 said:
This is entirely correct.
In reality, most ordinary folk get rid of their cars well before genuine end of life. Like decades before.
Most cars, certainly post 2000 can do 250k miles easily with the odd splash of cash as required. Even when that splash of cash turns out to be worth more than the car, the truth is it will be much less than buying another.
And we all know that new and nearly new cars have issues too.
,
Absolutely this. I wonder about that argument 'work worth more than the value of the car'. But if you get a £1k bill on a car worth say £500 (e.g. cambelt service + new brakes & pads all round and a couple tyres)- but you know it's a good car - wtf else are you gonna do with that £1k? Put it towards an unknown £2k shed? Or a deposit for a £20k new car? Or something middle of the road for £10k? Seems to me that the big bill is the most financially sound option. Just a bill that costs more than the value of a car on its own isn't enough reason to move a good car on imo. It's what both the car and the value of the bill are worth to you that matters.In reality, most ordinary folk get rid of their cars well before genuine end of life. Like decades before.
Most cars, certainly post 2000 can do 250k miles easily with the odd splash of cash as required. Even when that splash of cash turns out to be worth more than the car, the truth is it will be much less than buying another.
And we all know that new and nearly new cars have issues too.
,
Now if a car throws 2 or 3 big unexpected bills in a year, that's valid reason to cut losses and move on. I tend to think of what it's costing on average in maintenance and repairs PA to keep a car going and reliable vs. cost of a new car on loan/finance/lease and any associated running costs - plus a plush factor for the benefit of being in something nicer/better equipped too. Basically, if maintenance and repairs start to creep up to £1k+ a year for 2-3 years on the trot (on a fairly mundane motor, not something exotic or special with expensive parts/specialist labour) then it's time to consider something to replace it. And an average of £1k a year is enough to keep most regular hatchbacks/saloons running for a pretty long time.
SydneyBridge said:
Was having a chat with a chap in a Vw id3 the other week and i thought that keeping my car for 14 years is probably better for the environment than getting a new electric car. Arguable...
Well, it rather depends on whether the chap with the ID3 buys/finances/leases a newer version of the ID3 in 3 years time, then again 3 years after that and again and again...I recall reading somewhere that the carbon footprint to manufacturer the ID3 is 1.5 times that of a regular ICE Golf, which makes up a huge portion of the environmental footprint of a vehicle’s lifespan. Another example, a Polestar produces 24 tonnes of CO2 in production, compared to 14 tonnes for an XC40 (ICE).
Obviously the EV will have zero tailpipe emissions, but the electricity still needs to be generated somewhere. Because not all electricity is generated using renewable sources, through some very in-depth and convoluted sums you can come up with an equivalent gCO2/km figure for EV vehicles, I recall a figure around 60g/km being quoted.
The question is, how many miles must you do in an EV for its lower equivalent gCO2/km figure to offset its higher manufacturing footprint. The answer, of course depends on many factors, batteries, climate, the vehicle, the driver, the energy source and so forth.
The consumer trend to replace a car every three years somewhat narrows that gap between ICE and EV, so much so that I agree, keeping an existing ICE car going for many years is far less damaging than PCPing a brand new EV every three years.
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