Run a car to end of its life

[marine boy]

Not bought new but bought a UK spec. 1994 Toyota 4Runner 3.0TD over 6 yrs ago with 120k of running in miles

I've nearly reached moon distance miles in it and can't think of anything I'd want to replace it with

Plan is to do a full body off restoration which will keep it in tip top spec. for as long as I'm driving

Then my son can have it

[jakesmith]

marine boy said:

Not bought new but bought a UK spec. 1994 Toyota 4Runner 3.0TD over 6 yrs ago with 120k of running in miles

I've nearly reached moon distance miles in it and can't think of anything I'd want to replace it with

Plan is to do a full body off restoration which will keep it in tip top spec. for as long as I'm driving

Then my son can have it

Surely likely incoming emissions legislation will kill cars like that sadly. Won't we start to see old diesels facing punitive tax.

[spreadsheet monkey]

jakesmith said:

Surely likely incoming emissions legislation will kill cars like that sadly. Won't we start to see old diesels facing punitive tax.

Who can say for sure?

No doubt there will be a way to run older diesel 4x4s on a limited mileage basis. I can’t envisage every single classic diesel Land Rover and Range Rover being sent to the crusher in 2030 or 2035 or whatever.

[Cliftonite]

annodomini2 said:

C5, C6 was 2004 onwards, but good cars.

I know that! I have always known that! Perhaps I should take myself to the scrapyard while I still can!

[_Mja_]

spreadsheet monkey said:

jakesmith said:

Surely likely incoming emissions legislation will kill cars like that sadly. Won't we start to see old diesels facing punitive tax.

Who can say for sure?

No doubt there will be a way to run older diesel 4x4s on a limited mileage basis. I can’t envisage every single classic diesel Land Rover and Range Rover being sent to the crusher in 2030 or 2035 or whatever.

I think you will be fine. Most legislation affects newer cars and unless you live in a central location and plan to drive there every day I can't see it being legislated off the road - the classic/modern classic car market business, including an array of diesels is worth too much to the economy vs the realtive handful of cars that will still be lovingly kept on the road.

The government wants to see the majority in green cars and will offer voluntary incentives and perceived cash easing (i.e. more expensive petrol) to brain wash people into spunk £40k on a new electric car becuase it's cheaper. The won't run some gestapo regime to force people to crush older cars. They might do something like scrappage but it will be voluntary. So they probably will make it a little more expensive to run and a little more difficult to drive in citites but you can always man maths offset the cost of spunking £40k on a new electric car and you don't have to live in a city.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Given all the above comments, and not least the governments intention to eventually get us out of our ICE cars, what do people feel about buying a new ICE vehicle in the next few years? The thought of buying a brand new car `just' before the government of the day ban, or severely curtail its use, does not seem very desirable.
I know that the reduction in ICE vehicle use, is not going to happen overnight.
Consequently as posted earlier I had the loose notion, of trying to keep my current daily driver, going as long as absolutely possible, so that when it finally had to go to the scrap yard, I could just step across, into whatever type of vehicle (EV, hydrogen, whatever is deemed to be the new path for society to take)
The range issue is still a thing with me, and I get a bit irritated with programs like Vintage Voltage, who big up the advantages of an EV, whilst glossing over the (current- pardon the pun) disadvantages.

[spreadsheet monkey]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Given all the above comments, and not least the governments intention to eventually get us out of our ICE cars, what do people feel about buying a new ICE vehicle in the next few years? The thought of buying a brand new car `just' before the government of the day ban, or severely curtail its use, does not seem very desirable.

Plenty of people have already posted similar opinions on this thread (Earthdweller, TWPC, aeropilot etc). I agree with them and am hanging on to my 2013 Honda CRV, which I've owned for 6 years and probably would have replaced by now if it wasn't for the EV/taxation uncertainty over the next few years.

No-one wants to be stuck with an automotive Betamax.

If I really wanted a new car right now, I'd lease or PCP it so I didn't have any worries about trade-in value.

[annodomini2]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Given all the above comments, and not least the governments intention to eventually get us out of our ICE cars, what do people feel about buying a new ICE vehicle in the next few years? The thought of buying a brand new car `just' before the government of the day ban, or severely curtail its use, does not seem very desirable.
I know that the reduction in ICE vehicle use, is not going to happen overnight.
Consequently as posted earlier I had the loose notion, of trying to keep my current daily driver, going as long as absolutely possible, so that when it finally had to go to the scrap yard, I could just step across, into whatever type of vehicle (EV, hydrogen, whatever is deemed to be the new path for society to take)
The range issue is still a thing with me, and I get a bit irritated with programs like Vintage Voltage, who big up the advantages of an EV, whilst glossing over the (current- pardon the pun) disadvantages.

Range anxiety is user dependent, for the majority it is not a significant issue, realistically how many of you regularly drive over say 200 miles a day.

Statistically not as many as the vocal majority would like everyone to believe.

There are practical issues that impact EV ownership, again these are individual specific.

You have to choose based on your needs and budget.

At the moment, with untaxed fuel and road use for EVs, as a daily they're win win, this will change with time.

I personally will probably transition to EV, but may get something silly for the weekend.

[Pan Pan Pan]

annodomini2 said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Given all the above comments, and not least the governments intention to eventually get us out of our ICE cars, what do people feel about buying a new ICE vehicle in the next few years? The thought of buying a brand new car `just' before the government of the day ban, or severely curtail its use, does not seem very desirable.
I know that the reduction in ICE vehicle use, is not going to happen overnight.
Consequently as posted earlier I had the loose notion, of trying to keep my current daily driver, going as long as absolutely possible, so that when it finally had to go to the scrap yard, I could just step across, into whatever type of vehicle (EV, hydrogen, whatever is deemed to be the new path for society to take)
The range issue is still a thing with me, and I get a bit irritated with programs like Vintage Voltage, who big up the advantages of an EV, whilst glossing over the (current- pardon the pun) disadvantages.

Range anxiety is user dependent, for the majority it is not a significant issue, realistically how many of you regularly drive over say 200 miles a day.

Statistically not as many as the vocal majority would like everyone to believe.

There are practical issues that impact EV ownership, again these are individual specific.

You have to choose based on your needs and budget.

At the moment, with untaxed fuel and road use for EVs, as a daily they're win win, this will change with time.

I personally will probably transition to EV, but may get something silly for the weekend.

I am pleased to say I already have some silly things for the weekend
but part of my present reluctance to buy an EV, is that I don't know for sure which path future vehicles will take Electric or hydrogen. I would personally prefer hydrogen, in the hope that this type of vehicle wont have the range issues that currently affect EV`s (not least because it is not just range which is a problem, but also charging times when a destination has been reached.
Just like the fantasy land we get in films, where the hero pulls up, and parks up right outside the place he want to go to. Vintage Voltage were showing someone on a long distance trip, pulling up to a motorway charging point, and being able to go right onto it and recharge his EV.
The reality will be, that he would more likely have had to wait in queue to access the charging points, and could end up in the service area for hours, before his vehicle was charged enough to reach the required destination, (and then wait `there' for hours to charge the vehicle up enough for the return journey)
I have nothing against EV`s generally because I find the idea of being able to refuel my car right outside my front door every night, appealing.
But given my particular driving pattern (with the current range /charging issues), an EV would not be suitable for me.

[aeropilot]

Pan Pan Pan said:

I am pleased to say I already have some silly things for the weekend
but part of my present reluctance to buy an EV, is that I don't know for sure which path future vehicles will take Electric or hydrogen. I would personally prefer hydrogen, in the hope that this type of vehicle wont have the range issues that currently affect EV`s (not least because it is not just range which is a problem, but also charging times when a destination has been reached.

I think it will be a combination of the trwo, rather than one of the other.

Small cars I think will stay as EV, but larger cars/SUV's etc and commercial vehicles I think will go the hydogen route. BMW have already said that they are working on hydrogen for large SUV's and the like.
Most of the big oil companies are already looking at converting redundant offshore oil platforms from oil/gas extraction to offshore hydrogen production, using wave/tidal power of the sea to provide the 'free' energy needed for the hydrogen production, and then make use of the already existing oil pipelines and infrastructure for hydrogen distribution/sales.

That could be a decade or more behind the EV curve though, so I agree that unless you can deal with an EV now, I'd be looking at staying with ICE as long as poss, in the hope that the hydrogen route will happen.

At my age, that's all moot point really, as I'll be able to see out ICE only until I need that mobility scooter as my final and only EV only purchase

[Pan Pan Pan]

aeropilot said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I am pleased to say I already have some silly things for the weekend
but part of my present reluctance to buy an EV, is that I don't know for sure which path future vehicles will take Electric or hydrogen. I would personally prefer hydrogen, in the hope that this type of vehicle wont have the range issues that currently affect EV`s (not least because it is not just range which is a problem, but also charging times when a destination has been reached.

I think it will be a combination of the trwo, rather than one of the other.

Small cars I think will stay as EV, but larger cars/SUV's etc and commercial vehicles I think will go the hydogen route. BMW have already said that they are working on hydrogen for large SUV's and the like.
Most of the big oil companies are already looking at converting redundant offshore oil platforms from oil/gas extraction to offshore hydrogen production, using wave/tidal power of the sea to provide the 'free' energy needed for the hydrogen production, and then make use of the already existing oil pipelines and infrastructure for hydrogen distribution/sales.

That could be a decade or more behind the EV curve though, so I agree that unless you can deal with an EV now, I'd be looking at staying with ICE as long as poss, in the hope that the hydrogen route will happen.

At my age, that's all moot point really, as I'll be able to see out ICE only until I need that mobility scooter as my final and only EV only purchase

A well considered approach.
I don't do that much local driving , and try as far as possible to walk, or cycle, if need something locally.
A lot of my driving involves long distance trips, which would be a nightmare, given the current range / access to charging points / time taken to charge situation.
There is also the comment above, about not wanting to be the person who chose the Betamax version of how future motoring will go!

[bigothunter]

Pan Pan Pan said:

There is also the comment above, about not wanting to be the person who chose the Betamax version of how future motoring will go!

Very apt especially with all the EV politics/culture/virtue signalling/bullst whizzing around

[anonymous-user]

bigothunter said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

There is also the comment above, about not wanting to be the person who chose the Betamax version of how future motoring will go!

Very apt especially with all the EV politics/culture/virtue signalling/bullst whizzing around

Absolutely. Who would want to own a BEV-ta max when solid state / hydrogen is just around the corner...

[JuniorD]

I have done this a few times (though they were never bought new) but with more modern cars there seem to be far more things that can go wrong in the twilight years that make them uneconomical to repair. Currently I have a couple of cars that are have a good few years useful life left however they are basically kept on a “Do Not Resuscitate” basis.

[DonkeyApple]

Pan Pan Pan said:

aeropilot said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I am pleased to say I already have some silly things for the weekend
but part of my present reluctance to buy an EV, is that I don't know for sure which path future vehicles will take Electric or hydrogen. I would personally prefer hydrogen, in the hope that this type of vehicle wont have the range issues that currently affect EV`s (not least because it is not just range which is a problem, but also charging times when a destination has been reached.

I think it will be a combination of the trwo, rather than one of the other.

Small cars I think will stay as EV, but larger cars/SUV's etc and commercial vehicles I think will go the hydogen route. BMW have already said that they are working on hydrogen for large SUV's and the like.
Most of the big oil companies are already looking at converting redundant offshore oil platforms from oil/gas extraction to offshore hydrogen production, using wave/tidal power of the sea to provide the 'free' energy needed for the hydrogen production, and then make use of the already existing oil pipelines and infrastructure for hydrogen distribution/sales.

That could be a decade or more behind the EV curve though, so I agree that unless you can deal with an EV now, I'd be looking at staying with ICE as long as poss, in the hope that the hydrogen route will happen.

At my age, that's all moot point really, as I'll be able to see out ICE only until I need that mobility scooter as my final and only EV only purchase

A well considered approach.
I don't do that much local driving , and try as far as possible to walk, or cycle, if need something locally.
A lot of my driving involves long distance trips, which would be a nightmare, given the current range / access to charging points / time taken to charge situation.
There is also the comment above, about not wanting to be the person who chose the Betamax version of how future motoring will go!

Hydrogen won't happen other than via fuel cells to power electric motors. Even then given the inefficiencies of local hydrogen transport and storage all the major hydrogen projects are related to using it to generate electricity at power stations in developed nations such as ours.

For example, the Chilean HIF project is about establishing whether cheap, excess wind energy can be converted to hydrogen so it can be shipped to Italian power stations.

But the key in the context of this thread is that the UK car replacement rate is relatively slow. We replace 2m vehicles a year in a fleet of 40m. So in crude terms even if every new vehicle was an EV it will take 20 years. It currently is nowhere near 2m, currently set to be around 200k this year so 20 years is a low number. As such, unless your current driving takes you into major city centres on a very regular basis the EV switch should have very little baring on a decision to buy a new ICE now even if the plan is to keep it for 20 years.

The worst that can happen is that in 15 years you'll look very uncool and off trend rocking up somewhere.

[aeropilot]

DonkeyApple said:

The worst that can happen is that in 15 years you'll look very uncool and off trend rocking up somewhere.

That's been me for the last 60 odd years anyway, so I couldn't get a feck about that

[Kessler]

Unless you plan on selling the car within the next couple of years, you might as well keep it until the end. With the war dramatically being ramped up on ICE cars, I think the end will come much sooner than we all think - well before the 10-year EV timeframe, we will see huge rises in road/petrol taxes and other other ways to make owning an ICE car unfeasable. The government know they are well behind their goals, so drastic measures will be introduced. Nobody will have the guts to stand up to motorists, as they will be ostracised as climate change deniers.
So my advise would be to enjoy your car while you can - perhaps get the V8 you always dreamt about now and run it into the ground rather than expecting a good resale value.

Edited by Kessler on Tuesday 23 March 15:43

[RSsteveH]

SydneyBridge said:

I have owned a Skoda Fabia from new for 14 years. Done 110,000 miles and going ok. Working from home, i dont need it very often but useful to have.

I buy all my cars with the intention of running them to the end of their life. I never do, I get bored after 3 or 4 years. I always helped with buying cars I considered special. Escort and Saphite Cosworth, Focus RS2, a Jaguar XKR that had been highly (and expensively) modified by its previous owner. A mini GP2, and now a BMW M2. Glorious cars, all of them, but they were/are never going to do 100k miles plus, with me at the helm.

[Pan Pan Pan]

DonkeyApple said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

aeropilot said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

I am pleased to say I already have some silly things for the weekend
but part of my present reluctance to buy an EV, is that I don't know for sure which path future vehicles will take Electric or hydrogen. I would personally prefer hydrogen, in the hope that this type of vehicle wont have the range issues that currently affect EV`s (not least because it is not just range which is a problem, but also charging times when a destination has been reached.

I think it will be a combination of the trwo, rather than one of the other.

Small cars I think will stay as EV, but larger cars/SUV's etc and commercial vehicles I think will go the hydogen route. BMW have already said that they are working on hydrogen for large SUV's and the like.
Most of the big oil companies are already looking at converting redundant offshore oil platforms from oil/gas extraction to offshore hydrogen production, using wave/tidal power of the sea to provide the 'free' energy needed for the hydrogen production, and then make use of the already existing oil pipelines and infrastructure for hydrogen distribution/sales.

That could be a decade or more behind the EV curve though, so I agree that unless you can deal with an EV now, I'd be looking at staying with ICE as long as poss, in the hope that the hydrogen route will happen.

At my age, that's all moot point really, as I'll be able to see out ICE only until I need that mobility scooter as my final and only EV only purchase

A well considered approach.
I don't do that much local driving , and try as far as possible to walk, or cycle, if need something locally.
A lot of my driving involves long distance trips, which would be a nightmare, given the current range / access to charging points / time taken to charge situation.
There is also the comment above, about not wanting to be the person who chose the Betamax version of how future motoring will go!

Hydrogen won't happen other than via fuel cells to power electric motors. Even then given the inefficiencies of local hydrogen transport and storage all the major hydrogen projects are related to using it to generate electricity at power stations in developed nations such as ours.

For example, the Chilean HIF project is about establishing whether cheap, excess wind energy can be converted to hydrogen so it can be shipped to Italian power stations.

But the key in the context of this thread is that the UK car replacement rate is relatively slow. We replace 2m vehicles a year in a fleet of 40m. So in crude terms even if every new vehicle was an EV it will take 20 years. It currently is nowhere near 2m, currently set to be around 200k this year so 20 years is a low number. As such, unless your current driving takes you into major city centres on a very regular basis the EV switch should have very little baring on a decision to buy a new ICE now even if the plan is to keep it for 20 years.

The worst that can happen is that in 15 years you'll look very uncool and off trend rocking up somewhere.

When motoring was in its infancy, several fuel types were tried, including electric, steam, diesel, and petrol. For petrol vehicles motorists were obliged to go into chemists shops for their fuel. and we all know .
how that turned out
I am waiting for a bit more certainty over which fuel type is finally deemed to be the most likely choice for the majority of people, but if history is anything to go by, it will be the one that proves to be the most everyday convenient, for the most people.

[DonkeyApple]

Pan Pan Pan said:

When motoring was in its infancy, several fuel types were tried, including electric, steam, diesel, and petrol. For petrol vehicles motorists were obliged to go into chemists shops for their fuel. and we all know .
how that turned out
I am waiting for a bit more certainty over which fuel type is finally deemed to be the most likely choice for the majority of people, but if history is anything to go by, it will be the one that proves to be the most everyday convenient, for the most people.

Yup. Which is why it won't be burning hydrogen in cars.

The electric motor is infinitely more convenient. It's the story of the energy that's the issue.

Besides which transporting and storing hydrogen for burning in cars is extremely inefficient and inconvenient.

Edited by DonkeyApple on Tuesday 23 March 21:44