RE: Lunaz completes world's first electric Bentley
Discussion
Maldini35 said:
FaustF said:
Maldini35 said:
FaustF said:
Maldini35 said:
I really hope synthetic fuels become a real thing and stop all this.
Agreed 
Maldini35 said:
Ok, this is not something that makes logical sense. It's an emotional response.
I don't like the idea of gutting an S2 to make it an EV.
That doesn't mean I'm against all engine swaps. I never said that.
I don't live my life making binary decisions about everything.
For example:
I hate bananas. That doesn't mean I'm anti fruit. I really like apples.
You might love bananas and perhaps you cannot understand why I don't.
But with the best will in the world, you won't be able to persuade me to like bananas on an internet forum.
As it happens I'd love a Mk2 Escort with a Duratec - so long as a BDA wasn't junked to make way for it.
So you have no problem with removing an engine and replacing it with something betterI don't like the idea of gutting an S2 to make it an EV.
That doesn't mean I'm against all engine swaps. I never said that.
I don't live my life making binary decisions about everything.
For example:
I hate bananas. That doesn't mean I'm anti fruit. I really like apples.
You might love bananas and perhaps you cannot understand why I don't.
But with the best will in the world, you won't be able to persuade me to like bananas on an internet forum.
As it happens I'd love a Mk2 Escort with a Duratec - so long as a BDA wasn't junked to make way for it.
now the problem is
define better
With a mk2 escort you probably want an engine which is light powerful and revvy. So ripping out a wheezy old xflow and replacing it with a duratec gives you an engine which is lighter, more power and higher revving
We can both agree its better
lets return to the old bentley
the original engine would of been selected to be smooth torquey and quiet
replace it with a Ev drivetrain and you have something smoother quieter and more torquey
So i think it is better
there are many classics where the car is great but the engine is s
teI think old bentleys are in this sector
Along with the citreon DS
bigothunter said:
Alongside diesel for commercial use, petrol will remain available but could get very expensive. Will need to monitor ethanol content which keeps increasing (10% soon on 95RON).
It will be interesting to see what happens to the taxes on petrol as we approach and pass 2035. On the one hand you would expect them to be steadily jacked up to assist in pushing consumers to EV but there is a political angle at play in that the last people to switch will likely be the poorest people who are most vulnerable to changes in mobility costs. The other aspect to consider is the unusual impact of lockdown data. We will have two main sets, a Summer and a Winter set that over the coming years will be closely scrutinised with regards to the anomalous change in private transport usage versus impacts on air quality. There is the slight problem with the more aggressive legislation that private transport only accounts for around 15% of general pollution and lockdown data will tend to give an indication of the likely end result of more than half the vehicles being zero emission. Ie lockdown data will be an extremely strong proxy for a transport network that is comprised of mostly EVs. The point being that once private vehicle emissions are below 5/6% and most urban centres are pure EV only then where exactly is the justification for continued punitive actions without them going from being vexatious to spiteful?
In reality, we don't need to force every ICE car off the road, all we need to do is see 60-80% replaced and removed from specific locations. Beyond that it is not cost effective but more importantly it is around the point at which half the 35m cars are EVs that the focus is likely to shift anyway. There are other emitters that already pollute more than private cars that will begin to stand out more, other pollutants from cars such as excessive tyre, road and brake dust from heavy vehicles also that will become targets.
And on a separate aspect, the poster boy child from the impoverished urban background who is being poisoned by car emissions for the one or two hours a day that they are outdoors may transpire to actually have been at risk from the 14 hours a day they spend in their filthy home with air full of VOCs and toxic cooking particulates. You'll be hard pressed in those environments to find a home with air that is cleaner than the air outside of it.
Quisling said:
So you have no problem with removing an engine and replacing it with something better
now the problem is
define better
With a mk2 escort you probably want an engine which is light powerful and revvy. So ripping out a wheezy old xflow and replacing it with a duratec gives you an engine which is lighter, more power and higher revving
We can both agree its better
lets return to the old bentley
the original engine would of been selected to be smooth torquey and quiet
replace it with a Ev drivetrain and you have something smoother quieter and more torquey
So i think it is better
there are many classics where the car is great but the engine is ste
I think old bentleys are in this sector
Along with the citreon DS
That’s ok. You don’t have a problem with it.now the problem is
define better
With a mk2 escort you probably want an engine which is light powerful and revvy. So ripping out a wheezy old xflow and replacing it with a duratec gives you an engine which is lighter, more power and higher revving
We can both agree its better
lets return to the old bentley
the original engine would of been selected to be smooth torquey and quiet
replace it with a Ev drivetrain and you have something smoother quieter and more torquey
So i think it is better
there are many classics where the car is great but the engine is s
teI think old bentleys are in this sector
Along with the citreon DS
Not sure If you’re trying to change my mind or somehow make me look foolish with the logic of your argument?
I still find the idea of making an S2 EV abhorrent for the reasons given in my previous posts.
I still hate bananas too.
Quisling said:
define better
With a mk2 escort you probably want an engine which is light powerful and revvy. So ripping out a wheezy old xflow and replacing it with a duratec gives you an engine which is lighter, more power and higher revving
We can both agree its better
Wheezy old xflow was the basis for Cosworth FVA, FVC and BDA engines. I would rather have any of them than a Duratec.With a mk2 escort you probably want an engine which is light powerful and revvy. So ripping out a wheezy old xflow and replacing it with a duratec gives you an engine which is lighter, more power and higher revving
We can both agree its better
cost aside, I do think that this is magnificent. I am hoping that these type of services make other conversions more affordable (would love and electric DS for a 20-25K conversion cost).
At the other end of the rarity and cost scale, I really like the idea of a plug and play conversion for Honda C90's that was on FullyCharged youtube channel.
I wonder whether this type of conversion would make a car like this a realistic proposition as a DD, Imagine an electric future where the tesla's and chinese blobs are interspersed with old converted bentley/Rolls gliding around town and city.
At the other end of the rarity and cost scale, I really like the idea of a plug and play conversion for Honda C90's that was on FullyCharged youtube channel.
I wonder whether this type of conversion would make a car like this a realistic proposition as a DD, Imagine an electric future where the tesla's and chinese blobs are interspersed with old converted bentley/Rolls gliding around town and city.
cookie1600 said:
Dark85 said:
How many people own a thatched cottage but have modern heating, fancy kitchens etc fitted? I see this as essentially the same.
In which case we should start having an enforceable 'listed status' for older, iconic classic cars so they can't be buggered about with. Time to get a National Trust for cars so they can be enjoyed by the public as they were when they were at their heyday? A full electric conversion would be well within the spirit and letter of listed building law. The law understands that the best way to preserve a building is to use it and maintain it. The focus is around retaining the features which are inherent to their aesthetic or cultural appeal.
You may have noticed when you are in a listed building or scheduled ancient monument that there are lights and heating. You can install double glazing but you might have to put them in frames made of the original materials or fit separate panes behind the originals.
In the context of this vehicle the engineers were always trying to make the engine as discreet as possible in which case fitting an electric motor is totally in keeping with the original design intent.
The laws around old cars have always allowed older vehicles to not conform to modern standards specifically to allow older vehicles to be used and preserved.
If there is something which needs to be protected as shared cultural property it is branded confectionery, the fact that horrendous American companies can turn up and change the size, taste and texture of beloved childhood memories is horrendous.
Talksteer said:
My mum used to do this sort of stuff for a living, now she chairs the CoE's internal planning/preservation committee (they have so many listed buildings its easier to let them run their own planning department).
A full electric conversion would be well within the spirit and letter of listed building law. The law understands that the best way to preserve a building is to use it and maintain it. The focus is around retaining the features which are inherent to their aesthetic or cultural appeal.
You may have noticed when you are in a listed building or scheduled ancient monument that there are lights and heating. You can install double glazing but you might have to put them in frames made of the original materials or fit separate panes behind the originals.
In the context of this vehicle the engineers were always trying to make the engine as discreet as possible in which case fitting an electric motor is totally in keeping with the original design intent.
The laws around old cars have always allowed older vehicles to not conform to modern standards specifically to allow older vehicles to be used and preserved.
If there is something which needs to be protected as shared cultural property it is branded confectionery, the fact that horrendous American companies can turn up and change the size, taste and texture of beloved childhood memories is horrendous.
Listed buildings are usually homes akin to daily drivers. Life would be very difficult if modern facilities were not installed.A full electric conversion would be well within the spirit and letter of listed building law. The law understands that the best way to preserve a building is to use it and maintain it. The focus is around retaining the features which are inherent to their aesthetic or cultural appeal.
You may have noticed when you are in a listed building or scheduled ancient monument that there are lights and heating. You can install double glazing but you might have to put them in frames made of the original materials or fit separate panes behind the originals.
In the context of this vehicle the engineers were always trying to make the engine as discreet as possible in which case fitting an electric motor is totally in keeping with the original design intent.
The laws around old cars have always allowed older vehicles to not conform to modern standards specifically to allow older vehicles to be used and preserved.
If there is something which needs to be protected as shared cultural property it is branded confectionery, the fact that horrendous American companies can turn up and change the size, taste and texture of beloved childhood memories is horrendous.
In contrast, there are genuinely preserved buildings which are frozen in time. They show exactly how life was lived in that era. That's the point of keeping classics original; enjoying a nostalgic escape to the past. Double glazing or electrification are alien to this need.
Dimwit3 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Maldini35 said:
I really hope synthetic fuels become a real thing and stop all this.
They aren't and won't be for cars. What will change is how the energy is stored for electric motors but even that doesn't make a case for 'efuels' in private transport.https://www.bosch.com/stories/synthetic-fuels/
https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/offerings...
Bosch missed out on EVs and regular pour cold water on them.
Talksteer said:
Dimwit3 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Maldini35 said:
I really hope synthetic fuels become a real thing and stop all this.
They aren't and won't be for cars. What will change is how the energy is stored for electric motors but even that doesn't make a case for 'efuels' in private transport.https://www.bosch.com/stories/synthetic-fuels/
https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/offerings...
Bosch missed out on EVs and regular pour cold water on them.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/15/business/electr...
Bobo W said:
if there were any marques that are ideal for retro-EV then surely it's RR & Bentley where the engine is about providing adequate power to move your stately home at a serene pace
Agreed - I really like it. I think if this powertrain technology and infrastructure was available in 1961, Bentley would have used it.crofty1984 said:
Bobo W said:
if there were any marques that are ideal for retro-EV then surely it's RR & Bentley where the engine is about providing adequate power to move your stately home at a serene pace
Agreed - I really like it. I think if this powertrain technology and infrastructure was available in 1961, Bentley would have used it.
There are two things that make old things interesting:
- How they look. We'll never see another car that looks like this Bentley. We're not going to build another St Paul's cathedral.
- How they work. The movements inside old watches are engineering masterpieces. The Colossuses at Bletchley Park are works of technical genius.
This is why I don't think the electrification of something like an old Bentley, or the conversion of Tower Bridge from steam power to electric, are sacrilege. The mechanisms aren't what makes these things interesting.
It's also why nobody puts a digital watch in an old Rolex case. The case isn't the interesting bit. You wouldn't go to Bletchley Park to watch a modern computer crack an Enigma message. It's the workings of the machine that are of interest.
Old things that combine looking nice and having interesting moving bits don't get modified at all. You'll never see someone replacing a Ferrari V12 with a battery and electric motor (although I'm sure someone will post a link to some hacky DIY conversion).
- How they look. We'll never see another car that looks like this Bentley. We're not going to build another St Paul's cathedral.
- How they work. The movements inside old watches are engineering masterpieces. The Colossuses at Bletchley Park are works of technical genius.
This is why I don't think the electrification of something like an old Bentley, or the conversion of Tower Bridge from steam power to electric, are sacrilege. The mechanisms aren't what makes these things interesting.
It's also why nobody puts a digital watch in an old Rolex case. The case isn't the interesting bit. You wouldn't go to Bletchley Park to watch a modern computer crack an Enigma message. It's the workings of the machine that are of interest.
Old things that combine looking nice and having interesting moving bits don't get modified at all. You'll never see someone replacing a Ferrari V12 with a battery and electric motor (although I'm sure someone will post a link to some hacky DIY conversion).
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