RE: The best used fast Fords to buy in 2021
Discussion
Bigwod said:
no still wrapped probably easier to live with if it wasn't cleaning wrap is time consuming and have to be extremely careful not to scratch the stuff
Have you had any issues with it? I heard quite a few had problems with them lifting due to rather hurried application at the factory? Or is that just another to add to the list of Mk3 head gaskets?RacerMike said:
Have you had any issues with it? I heard quite a few had problems with them lifting due to rather hurried application at the factory? Or is that just another to add to the list of Mk3 head gaskets?
I had it rewraped at Blue print Nottingham 4 years in July, it was lifting on the roof in top of screen and a little under the front arch but nothing major a bit of glue wouldn’t fix, the main issue I had was the previous owner had been a little rough in cleaning the wrap and it was very scratchy in places ,3m wrap marks very easy , Avery wrap on it now still have to treat it with a gentle hand and swissvax opaque and quality deep detailing microfibre 
RacerMike said:
I can understand that it could occasionally feel a bit artificial, but generally that was more evident in the Driver Modes like Sport and Track. I actually never used either of those in the end on track. Normal mode with DSC on, but in it's loosest setting seemed the most natural.
The thing was, in any of the other modes it just turned up the gains on the controller for the rear diff. So you didn't get any more locking torque/torque to the rear axle, you just got it sooner which meant it would quite aggressively drive from the rear, but then run out of capacity. Possibly that's what you felt was it fighting at. In Normal, the locking torque was a lot more linear and the car then felt a lot more linear in its responses as a result. You could get the nose in to the apex, then be quite aggressive on throttle as it started to push a little and you'd get the rear axle pushing you out of the corner neutralising it. I suspect many people maybe just sit there waiting on the limit of the front axle and not applying any more throttle. The thing needed torque to be able to neutralise on corner exit, so if you didn't supply any, it would probably just sit there in understeer.
If you have a look at my video from the 'Ring anyway, you can see generally when it starts pushing torque rearward. It's most noticeable through Aremberg (the tight right before the first bridge just after Schwedenkreuz) where most cars understeer anyway as the road falls away from the apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGHtLtqdEFo
Any road car will understeer on limit. I certainly don't feel like the Focus is in the 'more understeer' camp. In fact my 981 GT4 had more push initially with it's standard geo!
That's a pretty fast lap, could have been sub 8 minutes if you hadn't have got held up by a couple of cars there! It does look pretty neutral for the most part though with a bit of oversteer on some corners. I did really fancy a Focus RS when they came out, it seemed to be a return to form back to the Sierra/Escort RS Cosworth that I lusted after as a kid and was reminiscent of the homologation rally car days, even though the motorsport connection was no longer there. However the hype seemed to die down quite quickly and early adopters either seemed to ditch their cars quite quickly or have reliability issues.The thing was, in any of the other modes it just turned up the gains on the controller for the rear diff. So you didn't get any more locking torque/torque to the rear axle, you just got it sooner which meant it would quite aggressively drive from the rear, but then run out of capacity. Possibly that's what you felt was it fighting at. In Normal, the locking torque was a lot more linear and the car then felt a lot more linear in its responses as a result. You could get the nose in to the apex, then be quite aggressive on throttle as it started to push a little and you'd get the rear axle pushing you out of the corner neutralising it. I suspect many people maybe just sit there waiting on the limit of the front axle and not applying any more throttle. The thing needed torque to be able to neutralise on corner exit, so if you didn't supply any, it would probably just sit there in understeer.
If you have a look at my video from the 'Ring anyway, you can see generally when it starts pushing torque rearward. It's most noticeable through Aremberg (the tight right before the first bridge just after Schwedenkreuz) where most cars understeer anyway as the road falls away from the apex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGHtLtqdEFo
Any road car will understeer on limit. I certainly don't feel like the Focus is in the 'more understeer' camp. In fact my 981 GT4 had more push initially with it's standard geo!
I've never actually owned a fast Ford (or any Ford for that matter) but they tend to drive quite well and I wouldn't mind trying a mk7/8 Fiesta ST or mk3 Focus ST/RS. Would you say the RS is worth the extra money over the ST or have you not driven the ST?
I used to sell VWs, so they tend to be my "go to" brand and they have generally served me well. VW tend to win on interiors over Ford and make a very good all-round car but I can't help feeling the mk7 Golf GTI/R are a little restrained and possibly a bit boring in comparison to the fast Fords? Very good and smart-looking cars though.
white_goodman said:
That's a pretty fast lap, could have been sub 8 minutes if you hadn't have got held up by a couple of cars there! It does look pretty neutral for the most part though with a bit of oversteer on some corners. I did really fancy a Focus RS when they came out, it seemed to be a return to form back to the Sierra/Escort RS Cosworth that I lusted after as a kid and was reminiscent of the homologation rally car days, even though the motorsport connection was no longer there. However the hype seemed to die down quite quickly and early adopters either seemed to ditch their cars quite quickly or have reliability issues.
I've never actually owned a fast Ford (or any Ford for that matter) but they tend to drive quite well and I wouldn't mind trying a mk7/8 Fiesta ST or mk3 Focus ST/RS. Would you say the RS is worth the extra money over the ST or have you not driven the ST?
I used to sell VWs, so they tend to be my "go to" brand and they have generally served me well. VW tend to win on interiors over Ford and make a very good all-round car but I can't help feeling the mk7 Golf GTI/R are a little restrained and possibly a bit boring in comparison to the fast Fords? Very good and smart-looking cars though.
Yeah I was a little unlucky with the traffic. Was kind of hoping I'd manage to match or beat the Sport Auto 8min06sec which I think was possible with a clear track, but that's the Nurburgring on public/track days for you! It's a good illustration really of how you basically don't stand much of a chance of setting any records without a private booking! Had it on good authority from one of the Ford engineers that a sub 8 was very achievable but they never intended on setting a lap time with the car as it wasn't really it's target, and it was never going to beat the Honda.I've never actually owned a fast Ford (or any Ford for that matter) but they tend to drive quite well and I wouldn't mind trying a mk7/8 Fiesta ST or mk3 Focus ST/RS. Would you say the RS is worth the extra money over the ST or have you not driven the ST?
I used to sell VWs, so they tend to be my "go to" brand and they have generally served me well. VW tend to win on interiors over Ford and make a very good all-round car but I can't help feeling the mk7 Golf GTI/R are a little restrained and possibly a bit boring in comparison to the fast Fords? Very good and smart-looking cars though.
Your situation sounds similar to mine. Absolutely obsessed over the RS500 Cossie as a kid and remember seeing the Escort Cossie development Group A car at Chatsworth back in the 90s. They just seemed so cool to me at the time....way more appealing than the Legacy and Lancer competion.
All of my early car history was in some way VAG until the Focus. I had a couple of SEAT Arosas (first car was a 1.0 with 49hp(!) and second was the 16v Sport....my parents actually still have it!), an Octavia vRS, a Mk5 Golf GTI and then a 987 Cayman S (arguably not really VAG but still....). Since the RS I've had a Cayman GT4 as a fun car, an ST Line Fiesta and now a MK8 Fiesta ST which is my daily.
Compared to VAG stuff, all the Fords have a different focus. Every single modern one has huge amounts of front end with really quick steering. Even the ST Line 1.0 was a lot of fun to drive. It feels like vehicle handling and driver involvement is still very high on the priority list at Ford, whereas generally most of the VAG stuff is phenomenally capable but very formulaic. Every VAG product feels the same to me....it has the same steering feel, the same ride quirks (tonnes of road noise and rather poor isolation) but really good perceived quality. That's fine for a lot of people, as they know what they're getting. There's also a bigger difference between a run of the mill Ford and a Ford Performance product in my experience. The Mk4 Focus ST, Fiesta ST and Mk3 Focus RS have all clearly been developed by the same team. My Mk8 Fiesta feels very, very similar in attribute to the Focus RS.
So I think you can probably tell where my alliances lie. I really like modern Ford stuff, and I'm glad I scratched that itch of owning an RS. 8 year old me would have been over the moon!
RacerMike said:
Any road car will understeer on limit. I certainly don't feel like the Focus is in the 'more understeer' camp. In fact my 981 GT4 had more push initially with it's standard geo!
I knows the understeer well. I drove an Impreza on track for years and I'm not convinced the steering wheel was ever actually connected to the front 
That said, after a lot of work on front setupt and a scaffold pole in place of the rear ARB, it turned out fairly fun on a budget. Hassling the odd 'mega hatch' owner still on their PCP It's defaintely nowhere near Golf R dissapointment. I guess with my love of the older Fords, I felt more critical because I wanted to love it when I first saw the specs.... and... nope.. just didn't feel right next to the Renault. Couldn't speak for the Civic, they've thus far illuded me but I'm pretty interested in finding out about them.
I didn't hate it or anything (other than the blowing raspberry exhaust note). Could see it being a fairly fun day to day car just not what I'd want on a track. I did wonder if you'd be better off sinking a bit of money into an ST of some sort if that's what you were after.
Konan said:
It's defaintely nowhere near Golf R dissapointment.
You and me both. Had my Mk5 GTI at the time and I was so seriously underwhelmed by the R I couldn't understand where the praise was coming from.....it felt identical to my Mk5, but with more traction and about 30% more power. The saleswomans words of 'I've not had anyone dislike it after a test drive' were slightly ironic at the time!STs I believe are pretty rapid with a map. The Mk4 is also a fair chunk nicer inside.
rwindmill said:
Interesting that scanning through the replies to this point, there's not much love nor mention of the Sierra Cosworth in the list.
I'm wondering if its because, dynamically speaking, its beaten hands down by pretty much everything else on the list (bar the Capri) by a long long way.
Its inclusion in the list, seems to rest solely on its massive iconic Fast Ford status, and nothing else. Where as the other cars offer both cache and a good drive.
I'm wondering if its because, dynamically speaking, its beaten hands down by pretty much everything else on the list (bar the Capri) by a long long way.
Its inclusion in the list, seems to rest solely on its massive iconic Fast Ford status, and nothing else. Where as the other cars offer both cache and a good drive.
wab172uk said:
Grew up loving Fast Fords. Sapphire RS Cosworth 4x4 was my dream car back then.
Sadly I was too young to buy / insure all the nice XR / RS Fords. Only owned one RS Ford, that being the MK1 Focus RS. Nice car, but flawed.
If I ever win the Lottery, I'd buy a mint Escort Cosworth, and Sapphire Cosworth, just for the hell of it. Think Ford have done more than any other manufacturer when it comes to producing everyday car's young men and old lust after. Sadly the MK2 & MK3 Focus RS cars did nothing for me.
I like watching the Davide Cironi videos as he he gets to drive a lot of older interesting stuff of all marques and have a bit of a cavort with it too.Sadly I was too young to buy / insure all the nice XR / RS Fords. Only owned one RS Ford, that being the MK1 Focus RS. Nice car, but flawed.
If I ever win the Lottery, I'd buy a mint Escort Cosworth, and Sapphire Cosworth, just for the hell of it. Think Ford have done more than any other manufacturer when it comes to producing everyday car's young men and old lust after. Sadly the MK2 & MK3 Focus RS cars did nothing for me.
I quite enjoyed watching this one ( although it’s pretty long )
He realises a dream he’d had since a teenager
Clickety Clink
COLLY1 said:
I’ll be upgrading soon so my Focus RS Mk III will be up for sale. Less than 8000 miles on the clock, FSH. Stage 1 Mountune ( 375 bhp ) And I’ll be wanting around £25000!
WBAC will likely offer you more than £25k - they were recently up to over £27k for my late 2016 car on 24k.Deranged Rover said:
PH said:
We've all seen the Top Gear episode where a whole segment was dedicated to how good the flagship Mondeo really was...
Er.....no we haven't. When was that, then?blue al said:
Looks like very strong money for Del-boys Capri, if only he had brought a few more, when they were cheap as chips, both he and Rodney would be millionaires by now...
The Capri was a demonstrably poor car by the 1980s - thirsty, slow and handled like a boat. There is a reason that cars like the 260z or 200sx or celica or the supra outsold it.When they were £5k, you might have slapped a body kit and a rover v8 in one for a bit of a laugh, but at £20k it’s just madness.
Legacywr said:
There was an episode, must have been over 10 years ago, which had an ‘award’ segment in it. During the awards they did say, along with the Subaru Outback, were the only cars all 3 were agreed on them as being very good cars!
And they did pretty much a whole episode of Grand Tour on Ford family saloons and ended paying their respects to the Mondeo ST220 as the one car they all loved.cybertrophic said:
blue al said:
Looks like very strong money for Del-boys Capri, if only he had brought a few more, when they were cheap as chips, both he and Rodney would be millionaires by now...
The Capri was a demonstrably poor car by the 1980s - thirsty, slow and handled like a boat. There is a reason that cars like the 260z or 200sx or celica or the supra outsold it.When they were £5k, you might have slapped a body kit and a rover v8 in one for a bit of a laugh, but at £20k it’s just madness.
Still I think cars like that are best left in the past! I loved owning them then but wouldn't want either of them now.
In 2014 I bought a 2002 BMW E46 325ti Compact which reminded me of my Capri for being RWD with a 6 cylinder engine, manual gearbox, 4/5 seats and a hatch but it was way quicker and more refined, even though it cost just £1,950. But it was a much better car.
Rose-tints in action!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff