RE: The best used fast Fords to buy in 2021

[Earl of Petrol]

ric p said:

rwindmill said:

Interesting that scanning through the replies to this point, there's not much love nor mention of the Sierra Cosworth in the list.

I'm wondering if its because, dynamically speaking, its beaten hands down by pretty much everything else on the list (bar the Capri) by a long long way.

Its inclusion in the list, seems to rest solely on its massive iconic Fast Ford status, and nothing else. Where as the other cars offer both cache and a good drive.

I find that a bit odd as well, being a teenager of the ‘80’s. I’m not at Ford fan despite growing up in Essex. However one experience does stick in my head.

Very late ‘80’s or very early 90’s, my younger sister temp-ed at a start up car magazine, GTI Magazine, long since defunked. They ran a competition to visit BBR (Brodie Brittain Racing) at Brackley. This was in the glory days of the Ford Cosworths running in the British Touring Cars Champs. My sister blagged a free pass to also attend the day. So I headed up there in my Dolly Sprint, UUM681T, and we all got hosted by BBR.

They showed us the race cars and the modded road cars, running around 440bhp, which was a lot in those days from 2L and. 1200kg car. They explained at the time there was an unofficial challenge to get a Sierra to pass 200mph. However the law of dismissing returns / aerodynamics played out and about 185+ seemed the limit even at 600+ bhp.

Anyway after lunch out for a ride (but not a drive!) around the dual carriageway, roundabout to roundabout for those that know the area.

As a 18 or 19 year old it was pretty impressive to see 150+ on the clock and still pulling hard. The abiding memory is passing a Fiat Panda, who was probably doing 50 odd, with a passing speed in 3 figures.

Asked if the BiB were overly interested, answer no as they used to entertain them as well. Happy days.

Think how cheap Cossies were 20 years ago.

Like your story. I was 23 when the Sierra Cosworth was launched and In my first job so no hope of buying or insuring.
It’s far and away my favourite on this list. It’s not the fastest and no doubt the newer cars will be ‘better’. But the Ford Sierra RS Cosworth is an icon for me.

Edited by Earl of Petrol on Saturday 6th March 08:10

[Legacywr]

Earl of Petrol said:

ric p said:

rwindmill said:

Interesting that scanning through the replies to this point, there's not much love nor mention of the Sierra Cosworth in the list.

I'm wondering if its because, dynamically speaking, its beaten hands down by pretty much everything else on the list (bar the Capri) by a long long way.

Its inclusion in the list, seems to rest solely on its massive iconic Fast Ford status, and nothing else. Where as the other cars offer both cache and a good drive.

I find that a bit odd as well, being a teenager of the ‘80’s. I’m not at Ford fan despite growing up in Essex. However one experience does stick in my head.

Very late ‘80’s or very early 90’s, my younger sister temp-ed at a start up car magazine, GTI Magazine, long since defunked. They ran a competition to visit BBR (Brodie Brittain Racing) at Brackley. This was in the glory days of the Ford Cosworths running in the British Touring Cars Champs. My sister blagged a free pass to also attend the day. So I headed up there in my Dolly Sprint, UUM681T, and we all got hosted by BBR.

They showed us the race cars and the modded road cars, running around 440bhp, which was a lot in those days from 2L and. 1200kg car. They explained at the time there was an unofficial challenge to get a Sierra to pass 200mph. However the law of dismissing returns / aerodynamics played out and about 185+ seemed the limit even at 600+ bhp.

Anyway after lunch out for a ride (but not a drive!) around the dual carriageway, roundabout to roundabout for those that know the area.

As a 18 or 19 year old it was pretty impressive to see 150+ on the clock and still pulling hard. The abiding memory is passing a Fiat Panda, who was probably doing 50 odd, with a passing speed in 3 figures.

Asked if the BiB were overly interested, answer no as they used to entertain them as well. Happy days.

Think how cheap Cossies were 20 years ago.

Like your story. I was 23 when the Sierra Cosworth was launched and In my first job so no hope of buying or insuring.
It’s far and away my favourite on this list. It’s not the fastest and no doubt the newer cars will be ‘better’. But the Ford Sierra RS Cosworth is an icon for me.

Edited by Earl of Petrol on Saturday 6th March 08:10

I’d have a Cosworth as a great classic now, but 20 odd years ago, when I looked at one as a daily? Nah! Much too coarse.

[sideways man]

All the chat about fast fords but little mention of these.
With a 330 bhp cosworth yb I think its quick enough, especially as it will celebrate its 50 years next year.

Edited by sideways man on Saturday 6th March 09:54

[Nyloc20]

I totted up last night we’ve had 20 Fords since 1972, some fast, some slow. My first sporty Ford was a 1968 Escort GT, bought in 1972. I soon realised it was a total rotbox. I put a fibreglass front on it and to this day I’ve never met anyone else whose done the same.
The sporty models included a Mk1 Escort Sport 1300, Mexico, 1.1Fiesta S, Orion Ghia Injection, Sierra 4x4. My wife’s currently on her second Focus ST, went for a diesel as she’s a home carer with lots of stop/start driving. I’m currently thinking of chopping my Boxster in for a Focus RS, We don’t do the long trips anymore the Boxsters good for. I love the RS, some tempting motors out there.

[RacerMike]

Konan said:

RacerMike said:

Plough wide on the way in?! Christ! How high was your entry speed? 300mph? Literally one of the main strengths (or weaknesses depending on how you see it) is the front end.....it's so on it's nose on turn in that it's hard to be smooth. Hell, it could do with some more understeer to make it easier to drive fast on track, not less.

Not quite 300. To be honest, it might turn in, but it feels like you're a fat kit in a primary school wheelbarrow raceand Usain Bolt has your ankles.

Driver obviously makes a big difference, but I'd never see one excell on a track day. Not compared to something like a Meg 250. But, again, it's more a novelty road car isn't it.

Dynamically, in my experience, it was excellent on track, and I wouldn’t have said it ever felt heavy. It’s not the lightest hot hatch at 1,550kg but most of the modern hatches aren’t a great deal far behind. The Megane is over 1,400kg and the Civic within 50kg of that, so in running order there’s probably a passengers worth of weight in it?

The only car that’s changed significantly with the addition of a passenger that I’ve driven was my old Caterham. But that was 530kg unladen and 610-615kg with me in it, so an extra passenger was another 12% or so if its mass.

And lap time wise, it’s up there with the Megane and Civic. Round Silverstone is was within a 2 seconds of the ‘lap record’ the Civic set at the time, and it had a sub 8min Ring lap in it with a brand new set of Cup2’s and a clear track.

So really not sure what you mean. It felt hugely capable on track and not ‘like a fat kid’. Leaving the hyperbolic analogies behind for a moment, what part of the dynamic character did you feel was compromised?

[s m]

sideways man said:

All the chat about fast fords but little mention of these.
With a 330 bhp cosworth yb I think its quick enough, especially as it will celebrate its 50 years next year.

Edited by sideways man on Saturday 6th March 09:54

They feel pretty rapid with 150bhp

Unbelievable with over double that!

[Legacywr]

s m said:

sideways man said:

All the chat about fast fords but little mention of these.
With a 330 bhp cosworth yb I think its quick enough, especially as it will celebrate its 50 years next year.

Edited by sideways man on Saturday 6th March 09:54

They feel pretty rapid with 150bhp

Unbelievable with over double that!

I’d say too much power. Nothing wrong with a tuned Pinto in a Mk1/2 Escort.

[sideways man]

Legacywr said:

I’d say too much power. Nothing wrong with a tuned Pinto in a Mk1/2 Escort.

Didnt stop Carol Shelby building his 427 Cobra..

[Sub5]

sideways man said:

All the chat about fast fords but little mention of these.
With a 330 bhp cosworth yb I think its quick enough, especially as it will celebrate its 50 years next year.

Edited by sideways man on Saturday 6th March 09:54

Nice

[s m]

sideways man said:

Legacywr said:

I’d say too much power. Nothing wrong with a tuned Pinto in a Mk1/2 Escort.

Didnt stop Carol Shelby building his 427 Cobra..

It probably seems crazy until you try it and want one!

[Bigwod]

Love my Ford’s

[Bigwod]

[Bigwod]

[Konan]

RacerMike said:

So really not sure what you mean. It felt hugely capable on track and not ‘like a fat kid’. Leaving the hyperbolic analogies behind for a moment, what part of the dynamic character did you feel was compromised?

If you feel it was hugely capable on track, it looks like we're gonna struggle to find much more in the way of new ground. Since I'm picking at why I didn't find it so great, it's going to sound critical.

It's ok. If expect

Given a handful of laps some time ago (Snetterton, very soon after the first cars were delivered), I found that whilst there's a very direct turn in and it feels like there's limitless grip, take it a bit harder and it's not hard to get it to wash out. It's nothing old Audi S3 bad, but it's obvious.

Fair enough, that's what most road cars do, but then I found that it didn't have a nice intuitive way to balance that out under power - the drive train got in the way for me. It's all very artificial feeling.

Limited experience, yes. Good driver? Probably not, but I really felt like having a fight with a heavy car. It might not be all the porky, but it didn't do much to hide it.

That, coupled with never seeing one go all that well on track (again... Driver makes all the difference) just leads me to believing it not to be a great track car.

You're quite entitled to tell me I'm entirely wrong here, btw. The owner was very much enjoying the day. I very politely pretended I liked it and everything.

[GreatScott2016]

Bigwod said:

Love my Ford’s

Nice, also looks to be an Evo 8 lurking under the covers I still miss my Gun Metal Grey Evo 8 MR FQ-340. One of the best cars I’ve ever owned. Loved it to bits. Would take it over the Heritage too

[RacerMike]

Konan said:

RacerMike said:

So really not sure what you mean. It felt hugely capable on track and not ‘like a fat kid’. Leaving the hyperbolic analogies behind for a moment, what part of the dynamic character did you feel was compromised?

If you feel it was hugely capable on track, it looks like we're gonna struggle to find much more in the way of new ground. Since I'm picking at why I didn't find it so great, it's going to sound critical.

It's ok. If expect

Given a handful of laps some time ago (Snetterton, very soon after the first cars were delivered), I found that whilst there's a very direct turn in and it feels like there's limitless grip, take it a bit harder and it's not hard to get it to wash out. It's nothing old Audi S3 bad, but it's obvious.

Fair enough, that's what most road cars do, but then I found that it didn't have a nice intuitive way to balance that out under power - the drive train got in the way for me. It's all very artificial feeling.

Limited experience, yes. Good driver? Probably not, but I really felt like having a fight with a heavy car. It might not be all the porky, but it didn't do much to hide it.

That, coupled with never seeing one go all that well on track (again... Driver makes all the difference) just leads me to believing it not to be a great track car.

You're quite entitled to tell me I'm entirely wrong here, btw. The owner was very much enjoying the day. I very politely pretended I liked it and everything.

I can understand that it could occasionally feel a bit artificial, but generally that was more evident in the Driver Modes like Sport and Track. I actually never used either of those in the end on track. Normal mode with DSC on, but in it's loosest setting seemed the most natural.

The thing was, in any of the other modes it just turned up the gains on the controller for the rear diff. So you didn't get any more locking torque/torque to the rear axle, you just got it sooner which meant it would quite aggressively drive from the rear, but then run out of capacity. Possibly that's what you felt was it fighting at. In Normal, the locking torque was a lot more linear and the car then felt a lot more linear in its responses as a result. You could get the nose in to the apex, then be quite aggressive on throttle as it started to push a little and you'd get the rear axle pushing you out of the corner neutralising it. I suspect many people maybe just sit there waiting on the limit of the front axle and not applying any more throttle. The thing needed torque to be able to neutralise on corner exit, so if you didn't supply any, it would probably just sit there in understeer.

If you have a look at my video from the 'Ring anyway, you can see generally when it starts pushing torque rearward. It's most noticeable through Aremberg (the tight right before the first bridge just after Schwedenkreuz) where most cars understeer anyway as the road falls away from the apex.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGHtLtqdEFo

Any road car will understeer on limit. I certainly don't feel like the Focus is in the 'more understeer' camp. In fact my 981 GT4 had more push initially with it's standard geo!

[Legacywr]

Bigwod said:

You’ve taken the wrap off of that?

[wolfie28]

What no Probe’s or Cougar’s on the list

Never understood the blue oval tax on most of the sportier models. Prices are off the scale.

[KingNothing]

£50k on a Focus

[s m]

wolfie28 said:

What no Probe’s or Cougar’s on the list

Never understood the blue oval tax on most of the sportier models. Prices are off the scale.

Think you’ve nailed it right there with your choices wolfie - the highest Ford tax is on the sporty stuff the majority of people want to buy, just like with BMW tax or Porsche tax or Renault tax or any other marque with sporty stuff

Want a Probe or a Cougar or a Porsche 924 - they’ll be cheap on the whole as not particularly wanted. Want a Capri 2.8 or 944 Turbo - they’ll be a lot more as more want them. Want an RS1600 or very old 911RS - they’ll probably have even more tax on