RE: New Mercedes-AMG C63 confirmed as 650hp hybrid

[kingofdbrits]

raspy said:

s2000db said:

It’ll also be interesting to know what the performance figures of this car will be with a fully charged battery, and with an empty battery...
Surely after a few miles of spirited hooning (for which this car is supposedly designed for), you’ll be running on petrol alone??

The battery in a plug-in hybrid never gets fully discharged, it always has a bit left to assist the engine. on top of that with a few miles of spirited hooning if it has a decent regeneration system then you'll get something back in the battery. However overall you are right, plug in hybrids tend to perform best when fully charged.

Had a long drive in a C350e, and the battery gives decent boost 90% of the time but after a few WOT pulls on a long drive the electric power noticably reduces, and it will after time be petrol alone which feels like the turbo has fallen off and you wonder if you've broken it, but then you quickly get a bit of charge and the power comes back. Rise and repeat.

So it'll perform amazingly well on a Carwow drag YouTube vid, but take out early on a Sunday morning for a hoon and at some point the electric power will fall away and blunt the experience, but on a daily commute will be amazing at an overtake so I imagine for most owners the battery will be more than sufficient.

[tiggyzak]

MissChief said:

Who is going to buy a used one of these in 5, 6 or even 10 years time when the only place you'll be able to take it for, well, anything is the main Stealer and likely £200ph by then! Cars are becoming too complicated for their own good, it'll be to the point where people will avoid used cars like the plague and stick to ICE's.

I agree. Look, admittedly I'm nearly 76 but I have a 15,000 mile 2007 Golf Edition 30 ,which I love. I also have (my wife does anyway!) a 2009 Tiguan which I also love to drive . I have thought about getting a newer 2019/2020 R-Tech Line Tiguan but to be quite honest with you there are so many gadgets on the later ones that I don't think that I would use at least 75% of them - and ,we're only talking about a Tiguan here ! How you would go on with some of these latest hi tech cars I don't know. The worst thing about the Tiguan we have ?...... the touch screen radio and should never have bought a diesel .(DPF) !! In my Golf the radio has simple silver metal push buttons to get my Radio 5 Live , Greatest Hits and the lovely Ken Bruce.. Perfect thank you very much.

PLEASE no remarks about my age...I've already admitted that I'm old and stupid.

[crispian22]

Half of the package of my recently acquired 5.5 bi turbo engined mercedes is the sound,that's what AMG Mercedes have always been about.

This new engine is like dressing a dwarf in one of those blow up sumo suits.

[MrGTI6]

Max_Torque said:

A v8 AMG will return about 20mpg in normal road use. Drive this hybrid in the same conditions and it'll do more than 40 mpg.

If you're in the market for a C63, MPG probably isn't very high on your list of priorities.

[Sinkygolf]

Looks like it’s back to the M3 or Alfa QV for me.

[raspy]

9k rpm said:

2,000kg C63 no thanks.

Isn't weight distribution a factor, not just the actual weight when it comes to how well a car drives? Allegedly, the new car will have ideal 50:50 weight distribution due to the less weight of the engine over the front axle.

[Tin Hat]

PhantomPH said:

Tin Hat said:

Yes, I’ve had V8 63’s for 10 years, this new arrangement doesn’t light my fire.

The new power plant sounds Uber fast, but it’s like offering me a Ryvita that has been engineered to taste like a rib eye steak - not really what I want.

I see where you're going, but I have to ask - how do you know? This may be one of the best performing and best handling C63's ever produced. It may not have a V8 sound, but what if it sounds brand new and great in it's own right?

The are hypothetic rather than actual questions, but really I am pointing out that a lot of people are already making big assumptions about this car without any experience of it whatsoever (although I admit that the probability of it being any of the things I said, is pretty low.)

Yes, perhaps too quick to dislike something that I haven’t seen, but it’s probably similar to my fathers wistful antiquated talk of steam engines. The headline bad news from my POV is 4 cylinders and 200kg of batteries ( albeit with the weight offset of the smaller engine ).

[ghost83]

Not for me! The c63 should be a v8

[Gadzookoids]

I have only owned one AMG (SLK55) but it always seemed to me that AMGs USP was the theatre of driving, the fun factor. Their V8s have been a core part of that appeal. I can’t see how that can be replaced by more (superfluous) power and a synthetic 4 cylinder beat.

Boo booo boo. Just b****dy BOO.

[ManyMotors]

Yikes! It appears there are a bunch of old boomers here yelling that they don't like technology. Maybe its just German technology.

[leef44]

crispian22 said:

Half of the package of my recently acquired 5.5 bi turbo engined mercedes is the sound,that's what AMG Mercedes have always been about.

This new engine is like dressing a dwarf in one of those blow up sumo suits.

They will "engineer" in the sound and then the vibrations to make it more visceral. And then to top it all there will be cameras to monitor the surface of the road ahead so that the resistance in the electric steering can adjust to simulate road feel in steering feedback.

This is how I visualise the future for the petrolhead market.

[Mosdef]

crispian22 said:

Half of the package of my recently acquired 5.5 bi turbo engined mercedes is the sound,that's what AMG Mercedes have always been about.

This new engine is like dressing a dwarf in one of those blow up sumo suits.

I think AMG was more like Alpina for a very long time (probably until the mid noughties); nice riding, effortlessly fast, fairly fancy trimmings, easy to live with, without too much bling - save for the odd model like the Hammer or perhaps the wide body SEC. That’s pretty much the opposite of what they have become in recent years, sadly. The mid noughties E55 was just fantastic at being a cosseting but very quick saloon. Every model since then just seems to have moved further away from the original philosophy.

[raspy]

kingofdbrits said:

Had a long drive in a C350e, and the battery gives decent boost 90% of the time but after a few WOT pulls on a long drive the electric power noticably reduces, and it will after time be petrol alone which feels like the turbo has fallen off and you wonder if you've broken it, but then you quickly get a bit of charge and the power comes back. Rise and repeat.

So it'll perform amazingly well on a Carwow drag YouTube vid, but take out early on a Sunday morning for a hoon and at some point the electric power will fall away and blunt the experience, but on a daily commute will be amazing at an overtake so I imagine for most owners the battery will be more than sufficient.

I don't think that's a useful comparison in terms of a baseline. The C350e has a very crude and clumsy PHEV setup with an inefficient petrol engine setup, relatively low electric assistance and also without any effective regen (MB have learnt so much in the years since they started their PHEV cars) and it's not setup for performance or hooning either, like an AMG car would be.

[Schermerhorn]

650BHP?

Goodbye Audi RS4, BMW M3 and M4 sales.

[9k rpm]

J4CKO said:

9k rpm said:

2,000kg C63 no thanks.

They haven't given figures out ?

Current one is 1750 and this adds 200 kilos but the article says there are savings from the smaller 4 cyl engine, so I doubt it will be 2000 kilos, a bit heavier than the existing one but its got more power and its not like the old one was a lightweight.

650 bhp though, I reckon it will be utterly ridiculous.

Current one is well over 1,800kg and there will be very minimal savings in weight with a 2l if it was huge then they’d say. This will be a 2 tonne car you wait and see. Yes it will have fancy suspension and torque vectoring and all wheel steer but a two tonne C class, come on!

[anonymous-user]

MrGTI6 said:

Max_Torque said:

A v8 AMG will return about 20mpg in normal road use. Drive this hybrid in the same conditions and it'll do more than 40 mpg.

If you're in the market for a C63, MPG probably isn't very high on your list of priorities.

I'm sure it isn't as a driver, but to be able to buy it, then it must be on sale, and to be able to sell it, the OE must meet certain targets for economy and emisisons and those targets are getting harder and harder by the year. And lets not forget the ever increasing sales taxes on high consumption cars either!

Buy a high Co2 car in France and this is the result:

[thecremeegg]

ManyMotors said:

Yikes! It appears there are a bunch of old boomers here yelling that they don't like technology. Maybe its just German technology.

You buy a C63 for the engine, without it it's just a characterless fast car.
Nobody needs that much power, who cares!

[Northernboy]

Does this sort of thing mean it’s worth hanging onto my SL63 for a bit then?

If the next SL’s going to follow the same route is there a chance that the last of the V8s might hold on to some value?

[Mouse Rat]

I don't mind EV's. I don't mind Hybrids, they have a place.

But this is a compromise. And why would you spend big money on the flagship product that is a compromise. Pity.

[ZX10R NIN]

Schermerhorn said:

650BHP?

Goodbye Audi RS4, BMW M3 and M4 sales.

Or Hello Sir said the Alfa/Audi/BMW sales staff!!!!

Mercedes have dropped the ball on this one, I have no doubt this will be a weapon BUT sometimes it's not just about the numbers, having a V8 adds a level of specialness you can't actually put a number on.

It's not just the 63 (they should drop that number now as it has no relevance) they've missed a trick by not putting the 400d/53 drivetrain in the C Class.