What happened to genuinely posh cars and their targets?

[Harry Flashman]

RH80 said:

sasha320 said:

This impression of pragmatic frugal behaviour is exactly what 3rd+ Inter-generational wealth want you to think.

The truth is that these people at the end of inter-generational wealth are largely cashless.

They are presenting the frugal approach as a higher order of intelligence and a way of life but in truth they are covering up for the fact that they don’t have the wit or motivation to create wealth at all. The vast majority are doing very well to not break up the trusts and sell all the assets.

Agree 100%: they are often asset rich but cash poor, and don't want to liquidate the family pile. The classic "nouveau riche" insult is just a cover for their insecurity. My experience is that if people have surplus income, they tend to spend at least some of it on nice things.

I mean, we are generalising here, but I know plenty of sneering minor aristocracy doing dead end jobs in the City and pretending they are better than everyone else as they go back to a family pile at the weekend that they can't afford to maintain. In fact, a couple work for me and ultimately, I am their boss. We use them as social animals, drinkers, lunchers, shooters and skiiers. They attract others of their type, who spend their money buying things that we sell.

I have no moral qualms about this whatsoever. These types will never themselves re-make the family wealth, and their attitude frankly stinks.

I may be from a related social, educational and network background, but rather than thinking that this is a reason to view the world through a lens of privilege and superiority, I regard it as a cautionary tale as to what happens when the family money dries up. I my case, my father was one of the above. Always felt that he was owed something, despite having had the benefit of generations of family wealth trickle down to him. He had the best friends, was members of the best clubs, had properties in many countries left to him. All gone, now. He died broke. We only saved my mother's home by intervening and getting it signed over to her.

He blew it all. All the time obsessing over the family pride and status, and telling takes of the great days when you could walk tens of of miles on landowners by our family. It was his undoing, this bred-in arrogance and pride. He had the brains to do well, but his conditioning wouldn't let him try hard enough.

Rather than moan about it, I work hard. And regard the obsession with class here as an amusing side note that I exploit in whatever way I can to further my own goals.

Edited by Harry Flashman on Saturday 10th April 15:44

[Stick Legs]

As an old retired tax inspector friend of the family once said to me;

"Cars, Horses, Boats. Anyone with excess cash will buy one or all three, is someone is under suspicion it'll usually be one of these three that trips them up."

So on that basis, regardless of how you got your cash (Bitcoin, earned, inherited) you will blow it one one of the above.
The apocryphal Lord of the Manor in a threadbare shirt and rusty Subaru Legacy would probably love a Bentley, but it is lower on the priority list than fixing the 'Forth Bridge' that is his leaky roof.

[RMDB9]

Exactly. The big class divide are one's life priorities, although certain parts of the upper and working classes overlap in that respect.

[DonkeyApple]

RMDB9 said:

although certain parts of the upper and working classes overlap in that respect.

Both tend to live on estates or have friends that do, live of other people's money, have less issues with being dishonest, think others owe them something, obsessed with horses and dogs, don't have anywhere near the cash they need others to believe they have and struggle to speak the Queen's English properly?

[anonymous-user]

DonkeyApple said:

RMDB9 said:

although certain parts of the upper and working classes overlap in that respect.

Both tend to live on estates or have friends that do, live of other people's money, have less issues with being dishonest, think others owe them something, obsessed with horses and dogs, don't have anywhere near the cash they need others to believe they have and struggle to speak the Queen's English properly?

The sweeping generalisation police will av you for this one son, you're nicked.

[AW111]

As a foreigner, I'm finding this an interesting thread.


Related question : why are the British so brand obsessed? Why does everything appear to be a chain store / franchise?

eg There are half a dozen coffee shops near me - not one of them part of a chain. According to my reading (and talking to my England resident brother), that's possibly more independants than in the whole of London.

[C70R]

AW111 said:

As a foreigner, I'm finding this an interesting thread.


Related question : why are the British so brand obsessed? Why does everything appear to be a chain store / franchise?

eg There are half a dozen coffee shops near me - not one of them part of a chain. According to my reading (and talking to my England resident brother), that's possibly more independants than in the whole of London.

I'd say, even though it's got nothing to do with the topic, your reading and your brother don't have the first idea.

Of course the chains are prevalent, but I have 3 excellent indies within a 5min walk of home. It's a growing area of retail, in actual fact.

[DonkeyApple]

AW111 said:

As a foreigner, I'm finding this an interesting thread.


Related question : why are the British so brand obsessed? Why does everything appear to be a chain store / franchise?

eg There are half a dozen coffee shops near me - not one of them part of a chain. According to my reading (and talking to my England resident brother), that's possibly more independants than in the whole of London.

That's a slightly different discussion in that chains can price out all the local shopkeepers. It's a huge problem in the UK as far as I am concerned but few retail locations are cost effective for an independent shop. They can't borrow at the same rates, be as efficient re labour or taxation or often be in a position to pay 15 year leases and offer the landlord any kind of security. The end result is every highstreet looking the same with the same debt sustained outlets running on zero hour contracts and every pound spent by the local community leaving that community in a nanosecond.

Also, shopkeeping is hard work so best left to immigrants but we've just told them to all fk off.

[Teddy Lop]

AW111 said:

As a foreigner, I'm finding this an interesting thread.


Related question : why are the British so brand obsessed? Why does everything appear to be a chain store / franchise?

eg There are half a dozen coffee shops near me - not one of them part of a chain. According to my reading (and talking to my England resident brother), that's possibly more independants than in the whole of London.

an Aussie, of ford vs. Holden fame, whining about British brand obsession?

Oh and there's more than 6 independent coffee shops in my not especially remarkable suburb town

[Jaguar steve]

RMDB9 said:

Exactly. The big class divide are one's life priorities, although certain parts of the upper and working classes overlap in that respect.

The working classes have nothing to loose and the upper classes have nothing to prove. Neither will give a st what anybody thinks of them.

It's only those in the middle desperately aspiring to material success and social status with an image to maintain who'll care what others think.

[RMDB9]

Jaguar steve said:

RMDB9 said:

Exactly. The big class divide are one's life priorities, although certain parts of the upper and working classes overlap in that respect.

The working classes have nothing to loose and the upper classes have nothing to prove. Neither will give a st what anybody thinks of them.

It's only those in the middle desperately aspiring to material success and social status with an image to maintain who'll care what others think.

Shhhhh! Don't give away PH's coca cola recipe!

[MyV10BarksAndBites]

Harry Flashman said:

Deep Thought said:

otolith said:

sasha320 said:

This is also what the cash poor landed gentry say to cover up for the fact that their grandfather was a swashbuckling entrepreneurial business tycoon who created millions and all they’ve achieved with all their privilege and jump start in life is 4uck all.

I'm not sure which I find most amusing - the way that the aristocracy created this idea of the merit of inheriting wealth over earning it in order to continue to lord it over the "new money" who had more of it than them - or the forelock tugging here by some modern peasantry who buy into this nonsense.

This, absolutely.

This ingrained deference to inherited wealth is laughable. My American wife is bemused by it - (but they do it too, Rockefellers, Kennedys etc.)

My family is originally from a country where the aristocracy used caste to make slaves of the vast majority of the population, for centuries. I am myself of one of those landowning families, actually. As the power of agriculture gave way to industry, these families either reinvented themselves (Duke of Devonshire), or died (minor aristocracy in houses that are no longer supported by estates, giving it away to the National Trust). And yet the latter are somehow revered by our forelock tugging, trained to be subservient society as smarter than the person who made a billion for themselves in their own lifetime. It is laughable.

I think that class/caste is up there with religion as one of the greatest coercive social controls ever perpetuated by people on other people. Constructs designed to funnel money from the many to the few, and keep those few producing that wealth for the elite, in perpetuity. And as feudalism waned, to preserve the social status of an undeserving elite.

And these "wealth whispers" idiots are just buying into this rubbish even more. It is such a part of the middle class British tradition - to revere old money, and aid that old money in brooking no competition from upstart merchants.

Some people actually deserve to be serfs, it seems.

Edited by Harry Flashman on Thursday 8th April 15:36

[Thankyou4calling]

DonkeyApple said:

That latter part is amusingly true but the Shadow was a wagon that like many modern premium cars attracted a wide spread.

In truth, I don't think cars themselves portray that much but rather that the perception is more defined by where one lives or how one lives.

It's a bit like some posters who say that all RR Sports are driven by chavs and gangsters when in reality we know that not to be the case and what it probably means is that the poster happens to live in an area where there are a lot of chavs and gangsters. Pop along to Essex and you will see a lot of heavily made up people, Savilling about in Sports, head out to the Cotswolds and the people driving around in them will be the polar opposite.

“Savilling about in Sports”

I love that!

[Gilmore]

To answer the OP the best place to find out I suggest is Car Park 1 during the week of Royal Ascot.

[C70R]

Teddy Lop said:

AW111 said:

As a foreigner, I'm finding this an interesting thread.


Related question : why are the British so brand obsessed? Why does everything appear to be a chain store / franchise?

eg There are half a dozen coffee shops near me - not one of them part of a chain. According to my reading (and talking to my England resident brother), that's possibly more independants than in the whole of London.

an Aussie, of ford vs. Holden fame, whining about British brand obsession?

Oh and there's more than 6 independent coffee shops in my not especially remarkable suburb town

This one has backfired a little.

Turns out that making generalisations and sweeping statements about a city you've never visited doesn't always end well.

[MC Bodge]

Jaguar steve said:

The working classes have nothing to loose and the upper classes have nothing to prove. Neither will give a st what anybody thinks of them.

It's only those in the middle desperately aspiring to material success and social status with an image to maintain who'll care what others think.

What is upper class these days?

I would suggest that it probably includes very wealthy families who made their money a few generations ago, rather than just aristocrats and royalty.

[RMDB9]

MC Bodge said:

Jaguar steve said:

The working classes have nothing to loose and the upper classes have nothing to prove. Neither will give a st what anybody thinks of them.

It's only those in the middle desperately aspiring to material success and social status with an image to maintain who'll care what others think.

What is upper class these days?

I would suggest that it probably includes very wealthy families who made their money a few generations ago, rather than just aristocrats and royalty.

Why is it only about money?

[anonymous-user]

This is the only country I know of where success (which isn't equal to cash) is treated as something to actively ridicule.

It's the exact same mentality that made our car manufacturing industry a joke thirty years ago: "fk the management in their fancy jobs".

The class system is well and truely alive today in this country, and its evident in this thread, but it isn't perpetuated by those with the wealth; rather those who appear to have massive chips.

[C70R]

ExcitableBoy said:

This is the only country I know of where success (which isn't equal to cash) is treated as something to actively ridicule.

I don't think you've travelled widely enough.

And you're being overly-dramatic.

[anonymous-user]

C70R said:

ExcitableBoy said:

This is the only country I know of where success (which isn't equal to cash) is treated as something to actively ridicule.

I don't think you've travelled widely enough.

And you're being overly-dramatic.

Now if I had said "this is definitively the only country in the world". I would agree with you. But I didn't, I said that "I know of".

Also, you don't have a clue how far I have travelled. But I bet its more widely then you.