RE: New Toyota GR 86 - official!
Discussion
Varelco said:
The only realistic way to make the car lighter would be to make it smaller. Ditching the rear seats and making it shorter would have helped. The rear seats are truely pointless.
I do wonder if it would have gained more love if this was the case.
That might have saved 50kgs. But would have massively reduced its appeal. I do wonder if it would have gained more love if this was the case.
Varelco said:
The only realistic way to make the car lighter would be to make it smaller. Ditching the rear seats and making it shorter would have helped. The rear seats are truely pointless.
I do wonder if it would have gained more love if this was the case.
Then chop the roof off, and what have you got? Something that will fail to out-MX-5 the MX-5. Or worse, another Elise - how many did they sell of those?I do wonder if it would have gained more love if this was the case.
DuncanM said:
I love the back seats, and for some, even the tiniest rear seats will be essential to the buying choice.
I've used mine a few times for short journeys, 1 person behind the passenger, fine for 3 people, less so for 4.
Very good load space with seats down too.
I love the idea of a 350/70Z car, but they're heavier, and less practical. That engine though
I am in the other camp for that, I think in the 5.5 years I've owned the car I've used them 3 times for actual people. Can't even tuck your feet under the front seats properly, and I have to have my knees tucked eithe side of the steering wheel, emergency use only.I've used mine a few times for short journeys, 1 person behind the passenger, fine for 3 people, less so for 4.
Very good load space with seats down too.
I love the idea of a 350/70Z car, but they're heavier, and less practical. That engine though
The load space however is really useful with the seats down.
nickfrog said:
That might have saved 50kgs. But would have massively reduced its appeal.
Just ditching the rear seats and accessories nets you 30+kg so ditching a bit of car will probably be a bit more than that, but who knows, it was just a thought.grumbledoak said:
Then chop the roof off, and what have you got? Something that will fail to out-MX-5 the MX-5. Or worse, another Elise - how many did they sell of those?
What are you talking about? No one mentioned chopping off roofs. Edited by Varelco on Wednesday 14th April 09:57
Varelco said:
nickfrog said:
That might have saved 50kgs. But would have massively reduced its appeal.
Just ditching the rear seats and accessories nets you 30+kg so ditching a bit of car will probably be a bit more than that, but who knows, it was just a thought.The rear seat upright, bench, rear side panel plastics and boot carpet are barely over 10Kg. A passenger seat is about 20kg, floor matts a couple of kilos.
There really isn't much to take out of a GT86 if you want to retain something with more interior than a race car.
DuncanM said:
PK1987 said:
As an owner of an 86 for 6 years I am inclined to agree that I would have preferred a redesign of the back end to a hatch style, like a 944 or even the trueno. This would mean m minimal changes to the shape but improved rear head room and a convenient boot access.
I would have preferred them to have focused on lightening the chassis to reduce weight by 100kg or so. That would have had benefits for everything and power to weight would have been similar to the new car.
No one is reducing the 86's weight by 100kg, without completely ruining the car - if you look around one, there's no fat to trim. I would have preferred them to have focused on lightening the chassis to reduce weight by 100kg or so. That would have had benefits for everything and power to weight would have been similar to the new car.
Always thought it odd they didn't put the battery at the back given how much weight there is up front
jinba-ittai said:
DuncanM said:
PK1987 said:
As an owner of an 86 for 6 years I am inclined to agree that I would have preferred a redesign of the back end to a hatch style, like a 944 or even the trueno. This would mean m minimal changes to the shape but improved rear head room and a convenient boot access.
I would have preferred them to have focused on lightening the chassis to reduce weight by 100kg or so. That would have had benefits for everything and power to weight would have been similar to the new car.
No one is reducing the 86's weight by 100kg, without completely ruining the car - if you look around one, there's no fat to trim. I would have preferred them to have focused on lightening the chassis to reduce weight by 100kg or so. That would have had benefits for everything and power to weight would have been similar to the new car.
Always thought it odd they didn't put the battery at the back given how much weight there is up front
Sensei Rob said:
As an owner of a mk1, I don't think I'll sell it. I think it looks nicer than the new one. I am actually more interested in the Nissan 400z. Or I may save a bit more and get a Cayman. Either way, my gt86 is going nowhere.
I honestly think my 86 is a keeper too, I bloody love it!
Sensei Rob said:
As an owner of a mk1, I don't think I'll sell it. I think it looks nicer than the new one. I am actually more interested in the Nissan 400z. Or I may save a bit more and get a Cayman. Either way, my gt86 is going nowhere.
You'll have to import one then, as they're not available in the UK.That said, I've had a 350z and I doubt they are remotely comparable, the 350z was a great car, and handled well for what it was, but it was a heavy tank of a car.
TameRacingDriver said:
That said, I've had a 350z and I doubt they are remotely comparable, the 350z was a great car, and handled well for what it was, but it was a heavy tank of a car.
The great thing about the 400Z will be the Twin Turbo engine for me(if what we are led to believe is true), turbos are great at hiding the weight of the car I reckon. 
I love my 370Z big time, but it's naturally aspirated engine doesn't deal with it's weight(well the lack of torque/max power at 7000rpm anyway) that well being fair for me.
TameRacingDriver said:
Sensei Rob said:
As an owner of a mk1, I don't think I'll sell it. I think it looks nicer than the new one. I am actually more interested in the Nissan 400z. Or I may save a bit more and get a Cayman. Either way, my gt86 is going nowhere.
You'll have to import one then, as they're not available in the UK.That said, I've had a 350z and I doubt they are remotely comparable, the 350z was a great car, and handled well for what it was, but it was a heavy tank of a car.
cerb4.5lee said:
The great thing about the 400Z will be the Twin Turbo engine for me(if what we are led to believe is true), turbos are great at hiding the weight of the car I reckon.
I love my 370Z big time, but it's naturally aspirated engine doesn't deal with it's weight(well the lack of torque/max power at 7000rpm anyway) that well being fair for me.
I know what you mean, for me it wasn't so much the raw performance that bothered me, it was the effect on the handling and braking, it was alright for what it was, but you knew it was a heavy car. Funnily enough my R53 feels faster and yet in theory its 75 bhp down, but thats the effect of a small, light, agile car, with a decent chunk of power. The Z never felt particularly quick, was matched by a 330d, CTR, etc, but it made up for it with the noise.I love my 370Z big time, but it's naturally aspirated engine doesn't deal with it's weight(well the lack of torque/max power at 7000rpm anyway) that well being fair for me.
If I had a GT86, I'd be thinking of ways to fix its flaws, because the fundamentals are spot on. Fix the torque dip and supercharge, and this car becomes a serious bit of kit in my eyes. I think I'd be happy with a reliable 250 bhp with a supercharger, would give the car some character, a lot more muscle, nicer noise etc while keeping it's N/A feel, and hit that magic 200 bhp/ton. I love the supercharger in my Mini, and had a SC'd Mk1 MX5 for a while. It really feels like you've got a much bigger engine. Worth considering, not cheap, but much cheaper than buying a different car that could match it as an all round proposition.
TameRacingDriver said:
I know what you mean, for me it wasn't so much the raw performance that bothered me, it was the effect on the handling and braking, it was alright for what it was, but you knew it was a heavy car. Funnily enough my R53 feels faster and yet in theory its 75 bhp down, but thats the effect of a small, light, agile car, with a decent chunk of power. The Z never felt particularly quick, was matched by a 330d, CTR, etc, but it made up for it with the noise.
If I had a GT86, I'd be thinking of ways to fix its flaws, because the fundamentals are spot on. Fix the torque dip and supercharge, and this car becomes a serious bit of kit in my eyes. I think I'd be happy with a reliable 250 bhp with a supercharger, would give the car some character, a lot more muscle, nicer noise etc while keeping it's N/A feel, and hit that magic 200 bhp/ton. I love the supercharger in my Mini, and had a SC'd Mk1 MX5 for a while. It really feels like you've got a much bigger engine. Worth considering, not cheap, but much cheaper than buying a different car that could match it as an all round proposition.
I'm totally on the same page bud. If I had a GT86, I'd be thinking of ways to fix its flaws, because the fundamentals are spot on. Fix the torque dip and supercharge, and this car becomes a serious bit of kit in my eyes. I think I'd be happy with a reliable 250 bhp with a supercharger, would give the car some character, a lot more muscle, nicer noise etc while keeping it's N/A feel, and hit that magic 200 bhp/ton. I love the supercharger in my Mini, and had a SC'd Mk1 MX5 for a while. It really feels like you've got a much bigger engine. Worth considering, not cheap, but much cheaper than buying a different car that could match it as an all round proposition.
cerb4.5lee said:
TameRacingDriver said:
That said, I've had a 350z and I doubt they are remotely comparable, the 350z was a great car, and handled well for what it was, but it was a heavy tank of a car.
The great thing about the 400Z will be the Twin Turbo engine for me(if what we are led to believe is true), turbos are great at hiding the weight of the car I reckon. I love my 370Z big time, but it's naturally aspirated engine doesn't deal with it's weight(well the lack of torque/max power at 7000rpm anyway) that well being fair for me.
400Z does look rather lovely, I've always wondered how they managed to make the Z cars so lardy, for a 2 seater sports car, they should be 1350kg max imo. I do love the idea of one some day though, bit of a bargain at the moment I reckon.
DuncanM said:
cerb4.5lee said:
TameRacingDriver said:
That said, I've had a 350z and I doubt they are remotely comparable, the 350z was a great car, and handled well for what it was, but it was a heavy tank of a car.
The great thing about the 400Z will be the Twin Turbo engine for me(if what we are led to believe is true), turbos are great at hiding the weight of the car I reckon. I love my 370Z big time, but it's naturally aspirated engine doesn't deal with it's weight(well the lack of torque/max power at 7000rpm anyway) that well being fair for me.
400Z does look rather lovely, I've always wondered how they managed to make the Z cars so lardy, for a 2 seater sports car, they should be 1350kg max imo. I do love the idea of one some day though, bit of a bargain at the moment I reckon.
Yes and they are on the heavy side when you consider that they only have 2 seats for sure. I'm definitely on board with the whole Z car thing though and I'm really happy with mine(I look at it as a GT car rather than a sports car in fairness).
They never really feel that quick though and that is what really appeals to me about the upcoming Twin Turbo 400Z. As you say the 350Z/370Z are great value cars I agree.
cerb4.5lee said:
That is true!
Yes and they are on the heavy side when you consider that they only have 2 seats for sure. I'm definitely on board with the whole Z car thing though and I'm really happy with mine(I look at it as a GT car rather than a sports car in fairness).
They never really feel that quick though and that is what really appeals to me about the upcoming Twin Turbo 400Z. As you say the 350Z/370Z are great value cars I agree.
You have great taste, and have owned some lovely cars Yes and they are on the heavy side when you consider that they only have 2 seats for sure. I'm definitely on board with the whole Z car thing though and I'm really happy with mine(I look at it as a GT car rather than a sports car in fairness).
They never really feel that quick though and that is what really appeals to me about the upcoming Twin Turbo 400Z. As you say the 350Z/370Z are great value cars I agree.
DuncanM said:
cerb4.5lee said:
That is true!
Yes and they are on the heavy side when you consider that they only have 2 seats for sure. I'm definitely on board with the whole Z car thing though and I'm really happy with mine(I look at it as a GT car rather than a sports car in fairness).
They never really feel that quick though and that is what really appeals to me about the upcoming Twin Turbo 400Z. As you say the 350Z/370Z are great value cars I agree.
You have great taste, and have owned some lovely cars Yes and they are on the heavy side when you consider that they only have 2 seats for sure. I'm definitely on board with the whole Z car thing though and I'm really happy with mine(I look at it as a GT car rather than a sports car in fairness).
They never really feel that quick though and that is what really appeals to me about the upcoming Twin Turbo 400Z. As you say the 350Z/370Z are great value cars I agree.
I'm a really big fan of your cars as well.
cerb4.5lee said:
DuncanM said:
cerb4.5lee said:
TameRacingDriver said:
That said, I've had a 350z and I doubt they are remotely comparable, the 350z was a great car, and handled well for what it was, but it was a heavy tank of a car.
The great thing about the 400Z will be the Twin Turbo engine for me(if what we are led to believe is true), turbos are great at hiding the weight of the car I reckon. I love my 370Z big time, but it's naturally aspirated engine doesn't deal with it's weight(well the lack of torque/max power at 7000rpm anyway) that well being fair for me.
400Z does look rather lovely, I've always wondered how they managed to make the Z cars so lardy, for a 2 seater sports car, they should be 1350kg max imo. I do love the idea of one some day though, bit of a bargain at the moment I reckon.
Yes and they are on the heavy side when you consider that they only have 2 seats for sure. I'm definitely on board with the whole Z car thing though and I'm really happy with mine(I look at it as a GT car rather than a sports car in fairness).
They never really feel that quick though and that is what really appeals to me about the upcoming Twin Turbo 400Z. As you say the 350Z/370Z are great value cars I agree.
They were never going to be a 1350kg car with a large V6 and drivetrain. You can have light but you will struggle to get a large capacity engine and light in the same car these days - barring a Lotus Evora - and you will pay for the privilege for that.
They are a weighty car there is no getting away from it, but the base car is well under 1500kg - about the same weight as a 997.2 Carrera 2 with a similar size engine/power/performance. They are definitely more sports GT than an out and out sports car though.
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