RE: Toyota GR Yaris Nurburgring lap time

[cerb4.5lee]

Don Roque said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I thought that the car didn't look especially suited to that environment being fair as well. I reckon the car would look much better blasting across a nice rally stage in the forest.

As much as I like the Yaris GR, I'm under no illusions that it's fit for rallying. It would be blown to bits by the end of one gravel stage.

I think because of all the homolagation stuff that surrounds the car I think I see rallying as being more it's forte(in my head anyway! ). It didn't look particularly happy for me being thrown around the Nurburgring, however I've always seen the Nurburgring as being completely pointless for any road car in fairness. The Nurburgring just seems like a willy waving exercise for car manufacturers to me. I've never understood it being fair.

[MiseryStreak]

Just to be clear on this (discussed at great length on the official thread) it’s only the car’s body shell that was required for WRC homologation. They could have stuck a hybrid shopping engine in all of them, rather than just some of the number for the Japanese market.

So yes, they made a rally inspired road car that uses a homologated body shell (that will never be used in WRC now), with a rather nice motorsport ready engine that they were also planning to modify and use in the WRC car, hence why they asked for and were granted a rule change to allow a 3 cylinder engine in the regs.

This is no different to every other homologation road car I can think of, the Imprezas, Evos, Cosworth, Celica GT-Four, Integrale. All of them were road cars built using the same base body shell and possibly some other parts from the rally car.

I don’t think a single owner or potential owner has tried to claim they’ve nicked a WRC car from Gazoo Racing and are hooning around in it around on 0% finance hoping nobody notices.

Fact remains it was extensively tested and developed by Tommi Mäkinen, one of the most successful rally drivers of all time, who now works for Toyota/Gazoo Racing.

And Chris Harris says it oversteers and is great fun. So fk off.

[nickfrog]

Olivera said:

Still a good time, and if you've been around the ring at 8 min BTG pace you'll know that's damn fast!

I can confirm that. I never dipped under 8:15 BTG in the Megane RS even on a track day. I am sure I could have but I didn't want to as I felt that would mean driving at 10/10ths in places which I refuse to do there. No margin for error at that pace.
Things feel 50% quicker than at a conventional tracks.
I love the place.

[GTRene]

I think it sounded very good in the video, it looked faster then the time told.
Looked like a feel good toy car.

yes, you heard the tires screaming and yes on the long strait it was held back? it could not reach a high speed strangely.

so... I guess with better adjustments/parts special for the Ring and on a good temp/dry day and with a freely revving in top speed/gear engine, there is some time to be gained, but it looked like the driver gave it as good as everything.

maybe they try it soon with such tuned example, 300+hp no speed limiter, wheels/tires/suspension? and dive under the 8 sec, maybe a 7.50-54 is in the car, I guess so.

[Onehp]

Don Roque said:

As much as I like the Yaris GR, I'm under no illusions that it's fit for rallying. It would be blown to bits by the end of one gravel stage.

What you mean with fit for rallying? Does 'rally car' automatic imply competition? Does it have to be competitive too? Full interior, stereo, lane assist and all? Or does it mean one can drive a rally (gravel) stage at a descent pace, having fun without feeling you're totally out of place? Perhaps also suitable as a recce car or stage opener perhaps?

Likewise, people buy a Throphy-R to drive on the road and hopefully have some fun on track, but nobody is going to think it is in any way race ready or has anything to do in a DTM race...

[nickfrog]

Onehp said:

What you mean with fit for rallying? Does 'rally car' automatic imply competition? Does it have to be competitive too? Full interior, stereo, lane assist and all? Or does it mean one can drive a rally (gravel) stage at a descent pace, having fun without feeling you're totally out of place? Perhaps also suitable as a recce car or stage opener perhaps?

Likewise, people buy a Throphy-R to drive on the road and hopefully have some fun on track, but nobody is going to think it is in any way race ready or has anything to do in a DTM race...

I think what he means is that a gravel environment as opposed to a tarmac environment will utterly destroy the car fairly quickly even at moderate pace. Don't you agree?

[Onehp]

nickfrog said:

I think what he means is that a gravel environment as opposed to a tarmac environment will utterly destroy the car fairly quickly even at moderate pace. Don't you agree?

Destroy as in, car is worthless if the paint is blemished? Or destroyed as in, it will break down after a 10 mile stint (1 stage) and cost more to fix it then buying new?

Then my questions are:
How does one even dare driving the car, knowing you won't be able to prevent degradation of some sort? Why spend 5k on a full PPF as some do, if you're then afraid to damage the PPF? Mudflaps also protect from gravel....
And,
How the hell are you driving, does rally immediately imply flying 3m high over crests, causing dampers to explode on landing and missing the next bend and rolling the car 7 times, on every stage? Or can one maybe drive like this and call it (rally) gravel driving? :
https://youtu.be/ttGtiOZa2mg

Edited by Onehp on Friday 9th April 03:49

[nickfrog]

Onehp said:

Destroy as in, car is worthless if the paint is blemished? Or destroyed as in, it will break down after a 10 mile stint (1 stage) and cost more to fix it then buying new?

Then my questions are:
How does one even dare driving the car, knowing you won't be able to prevent degradation of some sort? Why spend 5k on a full PPF as some do, if you're then afraid to damage the PPF? Mudflaps also protect from gravel....
And,
How the hell are you driving, does rally immediately imply flying 3m high over crests, causing dampers to explode on landing and missing the next bend and rolling the car 7 times, on every stage? Or can one maybe drive like this and call it (rally) gravel driving? :
https://youtu.be/ttGtiOZa2mg

Edited by Onehp on Friday 9th April 03:49

Calm down. It was hyperbole. You perfectly know that driving on gravel with a modicum of fun will disproportionaly damage a car that is not designed or built for the purpose. This is a road car. On the other hand if you're happy to do that with your brand new £30k GR, then no one is stopping you.

[SidewaysSi]

MiseryStreak said:

Just to be clear on this (discussed at great length on the official thread) it’s only the car’s body shell that was required for WRC homologation. They could have stuck a hybrid shopping engine in all of them, rather than just some of the number for the Japanese market.

So yes, they made a rally inspired road car that uses a homologated body shell (that will never be used in WRC now), with a rather nice motorsport ready engine that they were also planning to modify and use in the WRC car, hence why they asked for and were granted a rule change to allow a 3 cylinder engine in the regs.

This is no different to every other homologation road car I can think of, the Imprezas, Evos, Cosworth, Celica GT-Four, Integrale. All of them were road cars built using the same base body shell and possibly some other parts from the rally car.

I don’t think a single owner or potential owner has tried to claim they’ve nicked a WRC car from Gazoo Racing and are hooning around in it around on 0% finance hoping nobody notices.

Fact remains it was extensively tested and developed by Tommi Mäkinen, one of the most successful rally drivers of all time, who now works for Toyota/Gazoo Racing.

And Chris Harris says it oversteers and is great fun. So fk off.

Love the 2 paras here. What a joke

[Mackofthejungle]

Shows how irrelevant 4WD is in something this low powered.. Great for greasy days if you're out gunning it, but not much more useful in the wet, and a hindrance in the dry. Probably be better saving the 100 or so kilos.

[MiseryStreak]

Mackofthejungle said:

Shows how irrelevant 4WD is in something this low powered.. Great for greasy days if you're out gunning it, but not much more useful in the wet, and a hindrance in the dry. Probably be better saving the 100 or so kilos.

I totally agree, might as well just buy a Fiesta ST. Much more fun. Only a 30 kg saving though? Must be the steel doors, bonnet, roof. Maybe the extra headroom in the back eats into the deficit? Weird.

[MC Bodge]

Mackofthejungle said:

Shows how irrelevant 4WD is in something this low powered.. Great for greasy days if you're out gunning it, but not much more useful in the wet, and a hindrance in the dry. Probably be better saving the 100 or so kilos.

Away from the high speeds of the Nurburgring, on tight, twisty, undulating, poor surfaced roads, 4WD might be useful.

[Digga]

At 7:01.

A submission for the parking thread.

[Kawasicki]

MC Bodge said:

Mackofthejungle said:

Shows how irrelevant 4WD is in something this low powered.. Great for greasy days if you're out gunning it, but not much more useful in the wet, and a hindrance in the dry. Probably be better saving the 100 or so kilos.

Away from the high speeds of the Nurburgring, on tight, twisty, undulating, poor surfaced roads, 4WD might be useful.

4WD on tight and twisty roads will definitely make the car quicker than a FWD hot hatch. The problem is that the FWD hot hatch is already waaaaay too fast for most.

[SidewaysSi]

MC Bodge said:

Mackofthejungle said:

Shows how irrelevant 4WD is in something this low powered.. Great for greasy days if you're out gunning it, but not much more useful in the wet, and a hindrance in the dry. Probably be better saving the 100 or so kilos.

Away from the high speeds of the Nurburgring, on tight, twisty, undulating, poor surfaced roads, 4WD might be useful.

Or a grassy car park. Or the snow. With the right tyres of course.

[MC Bodge]

Kawasicki said:

MC Bodge said:

Mackofthejungle said:

Shows how irrelevant 4WD is in something this low powered.. Great for greasy days if you're out gunning it, but not much more useful in the wet, and a hindrance in the dry. Probably be better saving the 100 or so kilos.

Away from the high speeds of the Nurburgring, on tight, twisty, undulating, poor surfaced roads, 4WD might be useful.

4WD on tight and twisty roads will definitely make the car quicker than a FWD hot hatch. The problem is that the FWD hot hatch is already waaaaay too fast for most.

That's a fair point. Those Nurburgring performances do show just how potent some modern hot hatches are. Not necessarily that much use on a UK road.

[nickfrog]

MC Bodge said:

That's a fair point. Those Nurburgring performances do show just how potent some modern hot hatches are. Not necessarily that much use on a UK road.

Not so sure. I have been using my road cars at the Ring for the past 10 years or so. The good ones there were really good on UK roads too, the ones that were not so good were not so good on UK roads so from my own direct experience and preferences at least it's a very good place to set up a car as it requires a fairly supple suspension setup. Plenty of opportunities on UK roads to use a fair chunk of the performance, including lateral acceleration and traction. Besides, we also have brilliant tracks, some of them even emulating the Ring (Cadwell Park, Oulton), it would be rude not to really, if you're into driving.

Edited by nickfrog on Friday 9th April 10:44

[Kawasicki]

MC Bodge said:

That's a fair point. Those Nurburgring performances do show just how potent some modern hot hatches are. Not necessarily that much use on a UK road.

Oh, you can use the performance... just don't get spotted using it.

Look, there are many people who just like the feeling of driving a highly capable car at 30% of its capability, and fair play if that's your preference... others prefer driving a much less capable car at 70% and sometimes more of its capability.

[Onehp]

nickfrog said:

Calm down. It was hyperbole. You perfectly know that driving on gravel with a modicum of fun will disproportionaly damage a car that is not designed or built for the purpose. This is a road car. On the other hand if you're happy to do that with your brand new £30k GR, then no one is stopping you.

It's by far the most purpose built car for sale today. The design brief was 50% paved, 50% unpaved.
Still didn't get answer on what damage you're on about, cars are made to be driven, not to remain brand new.

[MC Bodge]

nickfrog said:

MC Bodge said:

That's a fair point. Those Nurburgring performances do show just how potent some modern hot hatches are. Not necessarily that much use on a UK road.

Not so sure. I have been using my road cars at the Ring for the past 10 years or so. The good ones there were really good on UK roads too, the ones that were not so good were not so good on UK roads so from my own direct experience and preferences at least it's a very good place to set up a car as it requires a fairly supple suspension setup.

I do like a supple suspension setup.