What old performance car compares...

[Welshbeef]

blade7 said:

MC Bodge said:

These threads always follow this arc.

Then somebody brings up making use of all of the performance "up to the legal limit".

Probably because they are fully paid up members of Brake. And hen pecked wimps.

3-7th gear you cannot use the max power let alone a fraction of it within the public highway.

EV as a graph showed you get 100% power from nothing all the way that’s properly usable performance and is aligned to Monkey Harris take on it.

[dvshannow]

Welshbeef said:

blade7 said:

MC Bodge said:

These threads always follow this arc.

Then somebody brings up making use of all of the performance "up to the legal limit".

Probably because they are fully paid up members of Brake. And hen pecked wimps.

3-7th gear you cannot use the max power let alone a fraction of it within the public highway.

EV as a graph showed you get 100% power from nothing all the way that’s properly usable performance and is aligned to Monkey Harris take on it.

Yep and those instant pickup EVs are gonna create a load more accidents at roundabouts etc with people being about to move far quicker than we are used to

[MikeDB1]

Escort RS1800, with all the dealer fitted Ford Performance mods. Nearly 250hp in under a ton isn't bad even by today's standards. Far more brutal power delivery but that kept you on your toes. Only thing I'd change is to put Pilot 4s on which would need new wheels of course, but even the best tyres back then were st by modern standards.

[Lester H]

ReformedPistonhead said:

When I was 23 in 1995 I was paying £2,200 to insure my £5,000 Cavalier SRi (G-Reg) that I had proudly bought with 2 year’s savings...

Because it was “fast and sporty”.

My daughter’s 1.0 Polo goes faster (and is only £500 to insure too) and honestly it would be more fun to drive I reckon!

Unbelievable.

Interesting. At the time, that Cavalier was fast and desirable. To go back one generation, if your father or rich uncle had wanted that performance, he would have needed a Bentley , Aston or possibly a Bristol. Performance has moved on, even if the driving experience in mainstream cars has been sanitized.

[blade7]

Welshbeef said:

3-7th gear you cannot use the max power let alone a fraction of it within the public highway.

You are a clown.

[markcoznottz]

blade7 said:

Welshbeef said:

3-7th gear you cannot use the max power let alone a fraction of it within the public highway.

You are a clown.

He’s the ‘special’ uncle at a family wedding that everyone avoids.

[Mr Tidy]

AC43 said:

Autocar couldn't get a BB much beyond 160mph in 1978. Delimited, I could easily do that in my E500. 4 up, fully loaded with AC and seat coolers on. A lot has changed in 4 decades.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes/t...

I remember reading that too, when Autocar had quoted 174mph for the Daytona!

My manual 2005 BMW E90 330i ought to manage 160mph delimited - or in 5th as I believe the limiter only applies in 6th.

Things had already moved on in 3 decades - and probably in 2 decades as well!

[Richard Evens]

I think the comments can generally be summarised - it is not how fast it goes but how it goes fast that is the most important? Best example I can give is the 1000cc Austin Mini I inherited from my Gran, all 45 hp of it. My sister used to drive hers sideways across wet cattle grids in the Lake District lanes - Great fun. Love the 205gti comment about “wayward in the wrong hands” perhaps that is the secret of what we are looking for?

[hiccy18]

Richard Evens said:

I think the comments can generally be summarised - it is not how fast it goes but how it goes fast that is the most important? Best example I can give is the 1000cc Austin Mini I inherited from my Gran, all 45 hp of it. My sister used to drive hers sideways across wet cattle grids in the Lake District lanes - Great fun. Love the 205gti comment about “wayward in the wrong hands” perhaps that is the secret of what we are looking for?

Possibly.

As a kid I used to dream about taking the Top Trump winning Lamborghini Espada (7 litres! V12! 0-60 5s 165mph) across Germany on the unrestricted! autobahn; as an adult the M135i (4.9s, 155 limited) does it, and still manages to be fun... kinda, in a "it's still an easy to live with hatchback" way. I've driven cars that offer far more sense of occasion than a pokey 5 door hatch, but they won't cover all the requirements half as well.

[mintmansam]

Welshbeef said:

blade7 said:

MC Bodge said:

These threads always follow this arc.

Then somebody brings up making use of all of the performance "up to the legal limit".

Probably because they are fully paid up members of Brake. And hen pecked wimps.

3-7th gear you cannot use the max power let alone a fraction of it within the public highway.

EV as a graph showed you get 100% power from nothing all the way that’s properly usable performance and is aligned to Monkey Harris take on it.

Maximum Torque not power, although a lot of people say this. If you had maximum power from 0 rpm the torque curve would decrease linearly, instead of being flat.

eg It’s like when people say “you can feel the full 140bhp right from 1,200 rpm” well that not possible becuase it’s 140bhp @ 4500 rpm. Peak torque is a different matter.

Apologises it’s something I like to clarify

Launching EVs or fast 4wd cars onto roundabouts when a gap appears can cause problems in my experience as the people waiting to join at the next point aren’t used to it so I’ve had a quite a few instances where people have pulled out on me and I’ve had to hit the brakes harder, purely because they didn’t expect the acceleration. It’s my fault but you have to be careful.


Also my own experience I recall test driving my ST150 before I bought it, it felt extremely quick I accidentally wheel span in 1st joining a roundabout then each successive gear change had my dad moving back and fourth in the seat. We both were like this is quick. Now got a GR Yaris that will monster away from 0mph but even still my memory thinks the ST150 on that test drive was quicker ahhaa.

We used to think the ST150 at low revs was like a diesel because of the torque (must sound mad now) . There is a steepish hill on the way to Barton upon Humber alongside the river, I always remember my dad saying how when he was young you’d have to change down a gear or 2 to get up. We did in 4th or 5th whilst accelerating up it. Modern small turbo units probably don’t even have to think about it.

My experience is probably much more limited being 28 years old but even against the hottest of hatch in the 2000s cars have jumped massively in statistical performance, sadly alot that made the driving fun is removed or muted out of the modern car.

Edited by mintmansam on Friday 30th April 07:22

Edited by mintmansam on Friday 30th April 07:28

[otolith]

Yes, maximum torque at standstill, though those Teslas in the graph above reach maximum power by about 20mph and then maintain it well past NSL.

[havoc]

hiccy18 said:

As a kid I used to dream about taking the Top Trump winning Lamborghini Espada (7 litres! V12! 0-60 5s 165mph) across Germany on the unrestricted! autobahn; as an adult the M135i (4.9s, 155 limited) does it, and still manages to be fun... kinda, in a "it's still an easy to live with hatchback" way. I've driven cars that offer far more sense of occasion than a pokey 5 door hatch, but they won't cover all the requirements half as well.

Progress, but in an emotionless way.

(Oh...Espada motor was only the usual 3.9...Lambo didn't have the resources to do more than one V12)

mintmansam said:

Modern small turbo units probably don’t even have to think about it.

Not exactly true. Google Fiat 500 TwinAir hill problems. I think the small Fiesta had the same.

Small turbo's are NOT the answer to everything...

[MC Bodge]

Richard Evens said:

I think the comments can generally be summarised - it is not how fast it goes but how it goes fast that is the most important? Best example I can give is the 1000cc Austin Mini I inherited from my Gran, all 45 hp of it. My sister used to drive hers sideways across wet cattle grids in the Lake District lanes - Great fun. Love the 205gti comment about “wayward in the wrong hands” perhaps that is the secret of what we are looking for?

I agree.

It is the answer to a different question, though.

[jagfan2]

My 330d touring (5.6s 0- 60) isnt far off an E39 M5 (5.3) , which is pretty impressive for a 260bhp diesel estate vs 400bhp V8 super saloon, would still have the E39 if they did an estate though

[Welshbeef]

jagfan2 said:

My 330d touring (5.6s 0- 60) isnt far off an E39 M5 (5.3) , which is pretty impressive for a 260bhp diesel estate vs 400bhp V8 super saloon, would still have the E39 if they did an estate though

The amazing auto gearbox boosts performance vs older kit.

[ddom]

Welshbeef said:

The amazing auto gearbox

Two words that don't really go together

[s m]

jagfan2 said:

My 330d touring (5.6s 0- 60) isnt far off an E39 M5 (5.3) , which is pretty impressive for a 260bhp diesel estate vs 400bhp V8 super saloon, would still have the E39 if they did an estate though

Indeed

Your diesel is a fast to 60 as a Sapphire Cosworth and does twice the mpg most likely

Think the M5 V8 is still a bit faster though

They’re usually in the 4s to 60

[Pan Pan Pan]

I am always bemused by those who for example ,hire a supercar for their wedding, and wind up by badly stacking it, Which goes to prove there may be many fast cars out there, but not so many people who know how to drive them fast. especially when it does not have any driver aids, to help keep on the black stuff.

[havoc]

jagfan2 said:

My 330d touring (5.6s 0- 60) isnt far off an E39 M5 (5.3) , which is pretty impressive for a 260bhp diesel estate vs 400bhp V8 super saloon, would still have the E39 if they did an estate though

Modern tyres and the instant torque help off the line.

30-70 or 50-100 intervals would be very different.

[s m]

Boobonman said:

I remember reading a (Clarkson?) review of the then new E39 528i, it stuck with me how the reviewer was saying that the 192bhp or whatever it was gave you all the performance you could ever really need on the road.

Well here is the old 528i tested in manual format



This recent 520d would be very similar performance to your E220d ( weight, power, torque )



So you could say your Merc, as per that Clarkson remark, offers all the performance you could ever really need on the road - like that 528 of 25 years ago