18% of California EV drivers move back to ICE

18% of California EV drivers move back to ICE

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deckster

5,867 posts

220 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
ChocolateFrog said:
Sheepshanks said:
Filibuster said:
I have never understood, why the americans stil use 120V / 60 Hz instead of 230V / 50 Hz.
I don't understand why we (UK etc) still drive on the left. Although I suppose with EVs it becomes easier to engineer both.
It must still be a reasonable percentage of the cars made. The UK, Japan and Australia alone must account for 20% or so of all cars sold.
Closer to 10%. But those countries don't even make up a quarter of left-hand-drive cars; India and Indonesia both have far, far more cars than we do. Although for obvious reasons, they aren't driving EV take-up, as yet.

Drawweight

1,548 posts

81 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all

I was watching an interesting video on YouTube about electric cars and the infrastructure of charging points.

Basically the charging structure for electric cars is nowhere near complete enough for the amount of cars on the road. And certainly not sufficient if the number of vehicles is to increase.

The U.K. has way more charging points than California alone and that state has the highest number in the US. And that’s before you even talk about which connection is the one that fits your vehicle.

Honestly if I lived there I’d need an IC car as a backup.

SWoll

11,124 posts

223 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Drawweight said:
I was watching an interesting video on YouTube about electric cars and the infrastructure of charging points.

Basically the charging structure for electric cars is nowhere near complete enough for the amount of cars on the road. And certainly not sufficient if the number of vehicles is to increase.

The U.K. has way more charging points than California alone and that state has the highest number in the US. And that’s before you even talk about which connection is the one that fits your vehicle.

Honestly if I lived there I’d need an IC car as a backup.
Depends on how much driving you were to do of course, but agree that mass adoption in the US looks like a significantly larger challenge than in the UK, especially once you get out of the coastal cities.


AdeTuono

6,384 posts

192 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
daytona111r said:
Duelling with a highway man, driving on left means you can swing a sword with your right.
Does that work for cyclists and speed camera operators too?

Biggy Stardust

1,236 posts

9 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
This is because the OEMs, the people who make the cars you can buy are not going to be making ICEs for very much longer. The wind changed a long time ago (i'm going to suggest around 2017 ime) and the OEs realised they need to adapt, to evolve, and now, some 4 years later we are starting to see the fruits of their labours, with an ever increasingly stream of EVs product. And don't expect it to slow down, quite the opposite. As the large Chinese manufacturers try to get a foot hold wth aggressive pricing, expect the EU/US manufacturers to react. More product, better capability and spec, and cheaper.
You neglected to mention the lack of free will in this - of course they're doing it, they're being forced to do so.

greggy50

5,263 posts

156 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
I would say 82% is a good achievement considering the price of petrol in the US and the fact this will be based on EVs 4-5 years old that are nowhere near as good as the latest batch.

The fact is as a daily driver they are overtaking ICE cars if you can live with a 200-250 range which despite posters on here is plentiful for 90% of the population. Also the charging network is always ever improving and not as bad as people make out.

The future is an EV daily and a ICE car for the weekend. The fact is EVs are far cheaper to run, quieter inside, better for the environment over the lifecycle of the vehicle and faster like for like apart from top end speed which for a daily is perfect.

They will never be as fun as a V8 convertible etc. but for getting from A-B or the commute to work they are certainly preferable for me and it makes you appreciate the drive at the weekend or on a sunny day in your ICE car more.

nickfrog

14,101 posts

182 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
I don't understand why we (UK etc) still drive on the left.
Everyone used to ride on the left. Until Napoléon.

GCH

3,027 posts

167 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Truckosaurus said:
I think you could lease the electric Fiat 500 for something silly like $50 a month at one stage. Almost free motoring....
It was better than that....there is a federal tax credit, and also multiple california state EV grants & credits, meaning you could (and probably still can) actually make a profit after lease costs


tr7v8

6,583 posts

193 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Filibuster said:
I have never understood, why the Americans still use 120V / 60 Hz instead of 230V / 50 Hz.
I am told it is because when they started implementing electricity in the home, cable insulation was not capable of managing more than 110VAC. Also motors & transformers are slightly more efficient at 60Hz.
However all US homes have 3 phase, so 110VAC phase to neutral & 208VAC phase to phase. So anything that uses a fair amount of amps is 208VAC like ovens, washing machines & furnaces (combined A/C & heating).

Sheepshanks

23,619 posts

84 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
Sheepshanks said:
Filibuster said:
I have never understood, why the americans stil use 120V / 60 Hz instead of 230V / 50 Hz.
I don't understand why we (UK etc) still drive on the left. Although I suppose with EVs it becomes easier to engineer both.
because it would cost trillions to change over and take decades
I don't think it could be phased in....smile

Funk

22,817 posts

174 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
ashenfie said:
Fatherdougal said:
That is a counter-view - albeit a very skewed one. I'd be very surprised if 18% of early adopters of CD players went back to cassette. Or 18% of early mobile users gave them up and went back to landlines. Given they are supposed to be te future of motoring and the only option to buy new from 2030, I'd say this shows why the takeup isn't anywhere near where it needs to be, given all the propaganda we get on EVs.
I think I saw another stat that said only 75% of uk with PHEV never charged them.
They bought them because the Gov't incentivised them - just like the diesel boom years ago - not because they're eco-warriors. Ironically it must be worse for pollution driving a PHEV that never utilises the battery, you're just lugging all the weight around for no good reason...?

Edited by Funk on Tuesday 4th May 17:56

Evanivitch

9,161 posts

87 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Funk said:
ashenfie said:
Fatherdougal said:
That is a counter-view - albeit a very skewed one. I'd be very surprised if 18% of early adopters of CD players went back to cassette. Or 18% of early mobile users gave them up and went back to landlines. Given they are supposed to be te future of motoring and the only option to buy new from 2030, I'd say this shows why the takeup isn't anywhere near where it needs to be, given all the propaganda we get on EVs.
I think I saw another stat that said only 75% of uk with PHEV never charged them.
They bought them because the Gov't incentivised them - just like the diesel boom years ago - not because they're eco-warriors. Ironically it must be worse for pollution driving a PHEV that never utilises the battery, you're just lugging all the weight around for no go reason...?
Conflating different statistics.

Yeah there's evidence that PHEV fleet MPG averages were low, but the data doesn't say how many were not being charged.

But it does say 70% of PHEV sales were to fleets.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/105206/flee...

ATG

17,689 posts

237 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Funk said:
ashenfie said:
Fatherdougal said:
That is a counter-view - albeit a very skewed one. I'd be very surprised if 18% of early adopters of CD players went back to cassette. Or 18% of early mobile users gave them up and went back to landlines. Given they are supposed to be te future of motoring and the only option to buy new from 2030, I'd say this shows why the takeup isn't anywhere near where it needs to be, given all the propaganda we get on EVs.
I think I saw another stat that said only 75% of uk with PHEV never charged them.
They bought them because the Gov't incentivised them - just like the diesel boom years ago - not because they're eco-warriors. Ironically it must be worse for pollution driving a PHEV that never utilises the battery, you're just lugging all the weight around for no go reason...?
You'll be gaining some benefit from regenerative braking, though probably dragging a slightly bigger battery around than is strictly necessary for that function. I expect they'd still be achieving better fuel economy on average than pure ICE.

Byker28i

34,358 posts

182 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Sheepshanks said:
Filibuster said:
I have never understood, why the americans stil use 120V / 60 Hz instead of 230V / 50 Hz.
I don't understand why we (UK etc) still drive on the left. Although I suppose with EVs it becomes easier to engineer both.
because it would cost trillions to change over and take decades
I don't think it could be phased in....smile
They could amp it up rather than stick with the current... wink

NMNeil

1,736 posts

15 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
vaud said:
No hint of bias from that website.
None at all biggrin
https://oilprice.com/contributors/Irina-Slav

Byker28i

34,358 posts

182 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
kambites said:
vaud said:
The thing is I want both.
yes Our future garage will be an Elise and something like an ID3. I have no desire to own an electric "fun" car but I no longer have any desire to own an ICE family car either.
Right now an ICE estate suits our mileage/range needs but a EV would do my current commute, have acceleration fun, but is useless in a house I spend half my time in as I have no driveway and cant park outside, and charging points are few locally.

Infrastructure, cost of the new cars, availability of cheaper second hand EV's are the current hold ups. We have reasonable range now 250-300miles.
But EV is coming, and to be honest, if speed matters (or traffic light grand prixs) then EV is the way to go. There was a Niro on the M4 the other week, just slowing and accelerating hard, seemed very nippy at 60-85.

ATG

17,689 posts

237 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Drawweight said:
I was watching an interesting video on YouTube about electric cars and the infrastructure of charging points.

Basically the charging structure for electric cars is nowhere near complete enough for the amount of cars on the road. And certainly not sufficient if the number of vehicles is to increase.

The U.K. has way more charging points than California alone and that state has the highest number in the US. And that’s before you even talk about which connection is the one that fits your vehicle.

Honestly if I lived there I’d need an IC car as a backup.
The charging infrastructure will grow as more EVs are sold. The two will go hand in hand. No one is going to build out huge recharging infrastructure before there is a customer base to use it. That does mean early adopters will tend to be people with off road parking where they can recharge at home. Nothing wrong with that. It's clearly already providing a fair amount of demand for new electrical vehicles and there's recharging infrastructure being built out at petrol stations and in car parks to support those early adopters. As that publicly accessible recharging infrastructure keeps gradually expanding, it will become sufficient to support more people who don't have off street parking at home, and that will in turn create more demand for public charging infrastructure which will encourage more to be provided. It's just normal market forces in action.

We bought a second-hand Leaf a couple of years ago to use for local journeys. Never bothered with a fast charger; just plug it into a normal 3-pin plug. It's always sat there ready to do a round trip of 100 miles and therefore gets used for the vast majority of our journeys. Due to a wren nesting in the grill of our 1000 mile range diesel, my wife and MiL finally bit the bullet of trying to figure out how to plug the Leaf into a public fast charger so they could go somewhere ... (drum roll) ... recharger the car (!) ... and then drive home. Obviously the first attempt was a bit of a st show becoz can't read the manual, can't operate a mobile phone, panic, etc. But having spent 5 minutes working out the three recharging options for the car, and then googling for the location of these mystical charging points, it becomes immediately obvious that the Leaf is fine for hassle free 200 mile day trips because the reality is there are public charging points scattered around the area we live (mid Wales) and I have never had to queue to use one. Now clearly this current infrastructure is not going to be adequate for everyone in just the same way that our rather puny 100 mile range is not going to be adequate for everyone .. but that risks missing the point. It's already adequate for a lot of people; enough to get create demand for these cars, enough to create demand for charging infrastructure. The rest will naturally follow.

Max_Torque

16,551 posts

182 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
ATG said:
No one is going to build out huge recharging infrastructure before there is a customer base to use it. .
Both BP and Shell are comming in hard to the charging market, aiming to put at least one fast charger on everyone of their existing forecourts!



vaud

40,247 posts

120 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
ATG said:
No one is going to build out huge recharging infrastructure before there is a customer base to use it. .
Both BP and Shell are comming in hard to the charging market, aiming to put at least one fast charger on everyone of their existing forecourts!
Indeed. BP made moves a while ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP_Pulse

Evanivitch

9,161 posts

87 months

Tuesday 4th May
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
Both BP and Shell are comming in hard to the charging market, aiming to put at least one fast charger on everyone of their existing forecourts!
And that includes on motorway forecourts in some instances, which breaks the ecotricity monopoly in many locations.