RE: All-electric Caterham Seven promised
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
If the e-Caterham increases in weight by 25% from the current one it could end up being as heavy and uninvolving as a Series 1 Élan. Another 20% on that and it will have ballooned to equal the weight of the cumbersome and lazy Elise.
I have a very different view James. I actually think the weight thing is over-played (shock horror), that's too simplistic. It's a much more nuanced subject about how a car with good driving dynamics works. If you drove around in an S1 Elise with no body so the weight was comparable to a Caterham, it would still drive like an S1 Elise. If you take a real world caterham wet weight it's going to be 575kg. Add two blokes, it's 750kg. If you compared that with the lightest Caterham (the JW fireblade thing?) with my 60kg in it, it would be much lighter, but both would undeniable drive like Caterhams.I'm not saying that an electric Caterham will be the same, but I bet you could design and engineer a very similar fun level that embodies what the Caterham driving experience is about.
Can Caterham do it? I hope so, but have fairly low expectations. Let's hope my expectations are significantly exceeded!
rscott said:
apexeater said:
rscott said:
Where did he say that? Not finding anything while googling about it.
We recognise that the future is electrification but, as you know, we utilise main brand engines. So we’ve used the Suzuki engine, we use the Ford engines just now – so we wouldn’t be naïve enough to think we could develop our own EV powertrain; we’d be looking to use an off-the-shelf package,” MacDonald explained. “We’ve looked into it, but there’s a weight disadvantage to the Caterhams. Part of the mantra of the Caterham is lightweight – “just add lightness,” as we call it. But currently, we think an all-electric powertrain would add more than 300kg to what is, already, about a 500kg car.”
MacDonald is also concerned about the cost implications of launching an electric Caterham; today’s technology would almost double the cost of Seven.
However, once all-electric technology becomes the norm, Caterham is ready to make the jump to an EV. “I am sure, as time goes on that all these major manufacturers and major battery manufacturers are all working to get more lightweight, longer range, cheaper batteries and more efficient motors,” MacDonald continued.
You seem to be one of those, who believe they know more about how Caterham can build, and market their cars, than the people who actually build, and market Caterham cars. Your level of accuracy is therefore appallingly low, whilst your level of self important arrogance, is very high.
Do some more research and you might actually find Simon Lamberts comments on building an EV Seven.
Pan Pan Pan said:
...find Simon Lamberts comments on building an EV Seven.
This I presume?...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vd1cIbzl8A&ab_channel=CarChatPodcastClipsInteresting that he says the main blocker is cost and confirms that a great driving experience is doable, but it's just different.
Edited by BertBert on Wednesday 19th May 15:28
ddom said:
Whilst I can I’ll be spending my money on lightweight powerful cars.
Clearly these things are a matter of definition! 
For many modern drivers there are some words which don't live comfortably in the same sentence. These include "car" and "Caterham".
Many Caterham owners have a different vehicle they use when a "car" is required.
If buyers want a "Caterham" - at heart a rorty 60 year old Lotus - I doubt they'll be satisfied driving a silent eco vehicle with no gears.
uremaw said:
jet_noise said:
I'd be very surprised if it does handle like a Caterham.
Batteries are heavy. Car is not designed to be electric so batteries'll not be readily sited in helpful places - low and central.
The entire engine bay of a caterham is low and central! Fill that with batteries, ditch the gearbox, tank and diff, then chuck a couple of motors in the back and you'll have something fast, planted and significantly lighter and more exciting that any mainstream EV.Batteries are heavy. Car is not designed to be electric so batteries'll not be readily sited in helpful places - low and central.
Edited by jamespink on Thursday 20th May 12:47
jamespink said:
uremaw said:
jet_noise said:
I'd be very surprised if it does handle like a Caterham.
Batteries are heavy. Car is not designed to be electric so batteries'll not be readily sited in helpful places - low and central.
The entire engine bay of a caterham is low and central! Fill that with batteries, ditch the gearbox, tank and diff, then chuck a couple of motors in the back and you'll have something fast, planted and significantly lighter and more exciting that any mainstream EV.Batteries are heavy. Car is not designed to be electric so batteries'll not be readily sited in helpful places - low and central.
Edited by jamespink on Thursday 20th May 12:47
under the floor....
of a Caterham.....
Riiiiiiggghhttt....
rockin said:
If buyers want a "Caterham" - at heart a rorty 60 year old Lotus - I doubt they'll be satisfied driving a silent eco vehicle with no gears.
I think that's absolutely right but it doesn't negate the possibility that there are customers out there that don't want a 60 year old Lotus from Caterham but would buy a modern EV from them?They failed last time they tried to sell a different product to a different client base but they might not this time. And this time they don't have any option with regards to failure. If they don't find a new customer base for an EV product then they will simply be dead in 14 years time, if not sooner.
Surely there's enough space low down in the current setup where the engine and transmission go to fit a sizeable enough battery? if the Tesla Model 3 SR+ weighing 1600KG needs a 50kW battery to deliver almost 300bhp and 250 miles of range just how big would a 7 battery need to be?
The current Duratec 2.0 + gearbox must weigh 125+KG? At current power density of 160 Wh/kg you're talking 200KG for a 30kW pack with headroom, which should be more than enough for 200bhp+ and 150+ miles of range in a 7?
The current Duratec 2.0 + gearbox must weigh 125+KG? At current power density of 160 Wh/kg you're talking 200KG for a 30kW pack with headroom, which should be more than enough for 200bhp+ and 150+ miles of range in a 7?
braddo said:
A 700kg 7-type car with 200hp/ton can still be a tactile engaging car to drive, including with an EV powertrain.
I don't disagree that the engine noise and manual gear changes would be missed. But to actually DRIVE, a heavier EV Caterham could still be a lot of fun.
A few years ago, I bought a 7-type car that was even heavier - 900kg. It had a heavy 400bhp/400lb-ft engine and gearbox up front, and suitable heavy propshaft/diff/driveshafts out back. It handled just as sweetly, and was as controllable at the limit as the 500/600kg Caterhams I have driven.I don't disagree that the engine noise and manual gear changes would be missed. But to actually DRIVE, a heavier EV Caterham could still be a lot of fun.
An EV Caterham would probably be similar, in terms of weight, power/torque, and weight distribution. On the basis of that car, I feel confident that engineers could make an EV Caterham drive as sweetly as the current ICE ones.
My gut feel is that what stops a car (a similarly heavy MX5 for example) having the ultimate poise and controllability of the 7-type cars is not the weight, but more the requirement to be civilised, softer riding and generally more appealing-to-all.
Martin.
Martin30 said:
A few years ago, I bought a 7-type car that was even heavier - 900kg. It had a heavy 400bhp/400lb-ft engine and gearbox up front, and suitable heavy propshaft/diff/driveshafts out back. It handled just as sweetly, and was as controllable at the limit as the 500/600kg Caterhams I have driven.
Sounds interesting!In a parallel universe, 4 cylinder ICE engines are going to be banned in a few years because they're for pussies and only iron-block American V8s will be permitted. This is an existential threat to Caterham and they will be forced to start making V8 Caterhams.
Car enthusiasts are aghast because it will weigh 700kg and and their range will be a paltry 150 miles because there is no room for a larger fuel tank.
Some people believe it will be impossible to be fun to drive and that no-one will buy one when it's that heavy and with such a short range.
justleanitupabit said:
jamespink said:
uremaw said:
jet_noise said:
I'd be very surprised if it does handle like a Caterham.
Batteries are heavy. Car is not designed to be electric so batteries'll not be readily sited in helpful places - low and central.
The entire engine bay of a caterham is low and central! Fill that with batteries, ditch the gearbox, tank and diff, then chuck a couple of motors in the back and you'll have something fast, planted and significantly lighter and more exciting that any mainstream EV.Batteries are heavy. Car is not designed to be electric so batteries'll not be readily sited in helpful places - low and central.
Edited by jamespink on Thursday 20th May 12:47
under the floor....
of a Caterham.....
Riiiiiiggghhttt....
Electro1980 said:
It seems like a good car for it. This is really getting silly people talking about the noise cars make. Baring a few specials (blackbird, JPE) they have rather ordinary 4pot engines, which is part of the point.
I’m more concerned about the regulations making small manufacturers add things like cameras.
Many ‘ordinary’ 4 pots can sound quite brilliant with DTH throttle bodies. Caterham’s rollers on the K sound great, although they’re not great at fuelling I’m more concerned about the regulations making small manufacturers add things like cameras.
having no roof half the point is the noise. Personally I’d take an aero screen for my daily 5 mile journey, hides all the creaks and rattles 
An Electric Cater 7 ?
What's the point ? If you want an electric vehicle, by a milk float.
Electric vehicles are actually worse for the enviroment than petrol cars all things considered. And that's not counting the "what do you do with the nackered batteries" question.
They'll be making horse drawn Sevens next. When is all this crap going to stop.
What's the point ? If you want an electric vehicle, by a milk float.
Electric vehicles are actually worse for the enviroment than petrol cars all things considered. And that's not counting the "what do you do with the nackered batteries" question.
They'll be making horse drawn Sevens next. When is all this crap going to stop.
Johnybananas1 said:
An Electric Cater 7 ?
What's the point ? If you want an electric vehicle, by a milk float.
Electric vehicles are actually worse for the enviroment than petrol cars all things considered. And that's not counting the "what do you do with the nackered batteries" question.
They'll be making horse drawn Sevens next. When is all this crap going to stop.
The problem is that, this is the way the government currently (excuse the word) want us all to go, just like they did a little while ago, making people buy diesels to `save the planet' That all went well didn't it?What's the point ? If you want an electric vehicle, by a milk float.
Electric vehicles are actually worse for the enviroment than petrol cars all things considered. And that's not counting the "what do you do with the nackered batteries" question.
They'll be making horse drawn Sevens next. When is all this crap going to stop.
Johnybananas1 said:
An Electric Cater 7 ?
What's the point ? If you want an electric vehicle, by a milk float.
Electric vehicles are actually worse for the enviroment than petrol cars all things considered. And that's not counting the "what do you do with the nackered batteries" question.
They'll be making horse drawn Sevens next. When is all this crap going to stop.
Is this genuine or a parody post?What's the point ? If you want an electric vehicle, by a milk float.
Electric vehicles are actually worse for the enviroment than petrol cars all things considered. And that's not counting the "what do you do with the nackered batteries" question.
They'll be making horse drawn Sevens next. When is all this crap going to stop.
DonkeyApple said:
Johnybananas1 said:
An Electric Cater 7 ?
What's the point ? If you want an electric vehicle, by a milk float.
Electric vehicles are actually worse for the enviroment than petrol cars all things considered. And that's not counting the "what do you do with the nackered batteries" question.
They'll be making horse drawn Sevens next. When is all this crap going to stop.
Is this genuine or a parody post?What's the point ? If you want an electric vehicle, by a milk float.
Electric vehicles are actually worse for the enviroment than petrol cars all things considered. And that's not counting the "what do you do with the nackered batteries" question.
They'll be making horse drawn Sevens next. When is all this crap going to stop.
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