RE: Megane 275 Cup-S vs. Honda Civic Type R (FK8)

[Mouse1903]

That's me had my 275 Trophy just over 6 years now and 57k miles from new. Not sure on an Ohlins rebuild but it feels as tight as the day I got it. I believe mine are on the "medium" setting (I've never changed them) and it's firm without being uncomfortable. I do like a relaxed backroad drive, setting the cruise to say 53mph where everyone is up your arse and will overtake you when they get the chance, then come the corners which means I end up behind them, doing the same speed and having to slow down for them

[Ben Lowden]

macky17 said:

As an fk8 type r owner plus the previous owner of that very megane, I feel qualified to comment.

First of all, this megane is remapped - by Engine Dynamics in Kelvedon - to about 295bhp. In the end I regretted having it done as although of course the car was faster it became very unenjoyable on a wet road. Yes, the Renault's lsd is much more aggressive than the Honda's which can be fun, but on a greasy road it tugs left and right to the point you have to back off. The remap exaggerated this and made the car frustrating over the winter. In the Honda you never need to back off, rain or shine, so it's fun all year round.

The Renault is rawer and more engaging. When you are up for it, it feels very special. Day to day it's harder to live with. I played with those Ohlins continuously, dialling them as far soft as they go, and the car was still too hard on the 19s - the A12 being a particular torture (this was before they needed a rebuild). Honda less extreme even in +R mode but far easier to live with.

In summary, if you want a weekend toy wherein you can pick and choose your road/journey then the Renault will provide greater thrills. The rest of the time the Honda is faster, more comfortable, more precise, more useable and has a massively better drivetrain. Buy both!

I don't regret you having the map done I find the Megane very sensitive to wheel size and tyre choice. When I had my 250 which was running 321hp/360lb ft, it never struggled to put the power down in the wet with Michelin PS4 tyres and always remained composed as long as I was progressive with the throttle. I bought a set of Tibor wheels with old PS2s fitted and they were horrific, swapped for new PS4 straight away.

I don't know what tyres you were running when you had the Megane, but it has PS4S on now (the tyre that superseded the Michelin Super Sport for those that don't know) and I agree that they do struggle in the wet. I'll be replacing them for PS4 at some point, likely when I change to 18s.

The Ohlins are coming off in two weeks for a rebuild so it'll be interesting to see if it makes any difference to the damping or if it'll just stop the knocking by replacing the worn bushes. Without a doubt the suspension on the Civic is far more comfortable and forgiving for daily use but when it comes to feedback, the Megane wins for me.

Really enjoyed the write up thanks Matt, a great celebration of two fantastic cars!

[lukeb00]

Following the 2014 Trophy, in Australia we had the 275 Cup Premium spec, absolute full fruit with Recaro, Akrapovic, Speedlines, RS monitor etc all as standard - only the Ohlins are absent as these only came on the Trophy-R. There are nearly 2400 Mk3 RS Meganes (97% Cup chassis) getting around down under so very much spoilt for Mk3 choice comparably to the UK mkt it seems!
Needs a head to head with the Yaris GR here to reinvigorate just how good it was/is. GOAT level greatness.

[jimAtr]

Other than the sport line, I don't believe you can get an order in for a FK8 anymore.

[popeyewhite]

Non - Cup Megane for me please.

[SimeRS]

Zarco said:

Itsallicanafford said:

(Note, i'm not using the word 'hot hatch' as in reality, both cars are too big, powerful and difficult to place on a B road where a hot hatch should excel).

Don't agree with that. Yes it takes some adjustment compared to a Clio, but the Mégane is not difficult to place.

Utter rubbish I had a Megane and now have a clio 200 yes the clio is smaller and lighter but a megane is still an awesome B road weapon exiting tight turns with the lsd and torque from the turbo is a lot of fun.

[nickfrog]

I kind of agree that the Megane is too wide for b-Road fun compared to even warm hatches like a SSS.

[Xenoous]

It took me a while to bond with my RS265, as I was just constantly getting frustrated with little niggly issues. Firstly the thermostat, now an EML (P0420), which I'm assuming is a combination of the dump valve & CGR 200 cell sports cat, a few little squeaks from the rear seats that I can't quite pin point, as well as the previous owner breaking the rear seat release catch (how do you even manage that? Sigh..).

July it's booked in with AW Motorworks to get the dump valve taken off, to be replaced with a Properfekt recirc. I'm having the B14s set up to my liking and a full alignment. It has a Wagner intercooler currently fitted, which I may just replace with the standard one as I have no intention of upping the power, as I feel this cars enjoyment is more about its chassis rather than outright pace. I'll get the perfohub units looked at as well, as I don't believe this has been replaced yet and I'm starting to hear a creak from the front at low speeds. I honestly can't wait to see what its like after.

• The 265 hits the sweet spot for our roads in terms of its power output, specially locally around Cambridgeshire & Suffolk. Fantastic grip from the front end allows you to tackle corners with confidence, and it really puts down the power without so much as a sweat.
• The brakes feel fantastic. So much pedal feel. Night and day compared to my previous car (Mk2 Focus ST)
• The Recaro's really are perfect for this car. They're so comfortable and supportive, and they hold you in brilliantly
• RS Monitor isn't so much of a gimmick as I thought. I feel it adds a whole new element to the car providing you with real time statistics and the ability to change the throttle mapping

My only criticism is the ride quality. I understand I'm on B14s, but the Cup suspension is supposed to be even worse in terms of ride quality. Happy to be corrected by someone though if this isn't the case.

It was a bumpy start, but I'm really warming to this car. As a drivers car, I challenge you to find something that offers the same daily usability as one of these but offers up the level of fun these cars do. I just can't wait to get it on a track.

nickfrog said:

I kind of agree that the Megane is too wide for b-Road fun compared to even warm hatches like a SSS.

Complete nonsense. Never had an issue.

Edited by Xenoous on Monday 24th May 12:03

[Ben Lowden]

Xenoous said:

It has a Wagner intercooler currently fitted, which I may just replace with the standard one as I have no intention of upping the power, as I feel this cars enjoyment is more about its chassis rather than outright pace...

Let me know if you're thinking of selling it! My car definitely doesn't need any more power, but I just can't help myself Could potentially do a trade with my standard IC and even meet up and swap them over at the same time.

Do you know how long the B14s have been on your car? All coilovers need rebuilding at some point and they might be a bit tired. I drove a friends 265 recently on Cup dampers with H&R springs and in all honesty, it was more comfortable at slower speeds than mine. Will be interesting to see if that changes after I get the Ohlins rebuilt.

[roadie]

I had a 265 Cup that I loved driving quickly. Pottering about not so much. But after climbing into the Recardos every journey was an event. I think one of the biggest shortfalls of the car was the sound quality from the stereo. It was terrible!

I'd seriously consider the Civic as a new car if I were go down that route. I would hope that it could match the Renault for immediacey of response and feel of the road whilst being a better all round car.

[CoffeePls]

When I had some interaction with Ben on the comments section a few weeks ago, and he trailed this article, I was really hoping for the Civic (my personal favourite) to win. I'm not sure that a definitive verdict was really given but my interpretation is that the Renault wins for the focused enthusiast, the Civic wins if you have a broader remit. But I'm actually not bothered by that any more. This article has given me a new appreciation for that generation of Megane, and my overriding feelings are now:

(1) sad that Renaultsport went down the path they did for the current Megane RS (which now seems like a retrograde step, similar to the Clio 200 -> Clio turbo jump about a decade or so ago) - especially as the "eye test" for sales (how many you see on the roads everyday) doesn't seem to have been an improvement
(2) a little fearful that the next Civic Type R could also be a bit of a drivers' retrograde step - I hope I'm wrong about that.

I'm also content that I can like them both now! Really enjoyed the article, thanks for making it happen.

[nickfrog]

Xenoous said:

nickfrog said:

I kind of agree that the Megane is too wide for b-Road fun compared to even warm hatches like a SSS.

Complete nonsense. Never had an issue.

It's not nonsense, whether complete or not. It's my experience based opinion, so by definition it's subjective but the only thing it can't be is nonsense, unless of course I am lying. The width may not be an issue at all for you, and that's grand. For me however, it was an issue on B-roads compared to a narrower car. That doesn't mean I couldn't use it there but it spoiled the enjoyment although that didn't take away any of the Megane's other qualities, particularly on track where width is not critical.

[nickfrog]

CoffeePls said:

(1) sad that Renaultsport went down the path they did for the current Megane RS (which now seems like a retrograde step, similar to the Clio 200 -> Clio turbo jump about a decade or so ago) - especially as the "eye test" for sales (how many you see on the roads everyday) doesn't seem to have been an improvement

I had a 280 Cup on 18' and manual box. A good step up from the Cup S IME. 4ws is brilliant in particular. Auto only wouldn't have worked for me however.

[Xenoous]

Ben Lowden said:

Let me know if you're thinking of selling it! My car definitely doesn't need any more power, but I just can't help myself Could potentially do a trade with my standard IC and even meet up and swap them over at the same time.

Do you know how long the B14s have been on your car? All coilovers need rebuilding at some point and they might be a bit tired. I drove a friends 265 recently on Cup dampers with H&R springs and in all honesty, it was more comfortable at slower speeds than mine. Will be interesting to see if that changes after I get the Ohlins rebuilt.

Hey Ben.

I will do. I already have a standard intercooler, however I'll give you a message if I do swap and I have it for sale. I understand what you mean with power as I started chasing numbers with my ST, trouble is that just ended up being useless unless it was on a really hot day. Without an LSD it just couldn't handle the power. That being said, the Megane will be able to handle the additional power a lot easier.

I believe they've been on the car since 2017 according to the receipts. I'm not sure they need a rebuild yet, but I'll be interested to hear what Alex @ AW says when he's setting them up. You'll have to let us Meg owners know what it's like after you get your Ohlins rebuilt

Cheers,
Ben

[popeyewhite]

nickfrog said:

I kind of agree that the Megane is too wide for b-Road fun compared to even warm hatches like a SSS.

I might be wrong but isn't the Megane narrower than the Honda it's compared to here, or so similar any difference is negligible? Out of interest what do you think is the ideal width for a hot hatch, something supermini sized like the Clio RS or Polo Gti?

[nickfrog]

popeyewhite said:

nickfrog said:

I kind of agree that the Megane is too wide for b-Road fun compared to even warm hatches like a SSS.

I might be wrong but isn't the Megane narrower than the Honda it's compared to here, or so similar any difference is negligible? Out of interest what do you think is the ideal width for a hot hatch, something supermini sized like the Clio RS or Polo Gti?

I don't know, it's all a compromise, isn't it? I really enjoyed the Swift on b roads, as well as a Lupo GTI. But neither can match the Meg in other areas.

[popeyewhite]

nickfrog said:

I don't know, it's all a compromise, isn't it? I really enjoyed the Swift on b roads, as well as a Lupo GTI. But neither can match the Meg in other areas.

I have a little Clio 197 to runaround in, it's fantastic fun on country roads. Lately my thoughts have been turning towards a Megane 275 though... .

[nickfrog]

popeyewhite said:

I have a little Clio 197 to runaround in, it's fantastic fun on country roads. Lately my thoughts have been turning towards a Megane 275 though... .

I am looking for a 197/200 for my son so if you're selling, feel free to PM me

[PH User]

It's the same width as a VW golf, so it's a fairly normal size car.

[Ben Lowden]

CoffeePls said:

When I had some interaction with Ben on the comments section a few weeks ago, and he trailed this article, I was really hoping for the Civic (my personal favourite) to win. I'm not sure that a definitive verdict was really given but my interpretation is that the Renault wins for the focused enthusiast, the Civic wins if you have a broader remit.

I'll share my thoughts fully in my next fleet update, likely to be in a couple of weeks time. I think this article really is a celebration of two cars at the top of their game rather than a close rivalry - with the Megane 3RS available anywhere from £6-18k, I doubt the average Megane buyer is really considering spending potentially double their budget on a FK8 Type R. That would take some serious Man Maths skills

Xenoous said:

I believe they've been on the car since 2017 according to the receipts. I'm not sure they need a rebuild yet, but I'll be interested to hear what Alex @ AW says when he's setting them up. You'll have to let us Meg owners know what it's like after you get your Ohlins rebuilt

The recommended rebuild interval on the Ohlins is every four years/25k miles. Not sure what it is for your Bilsteins, but they may be due some TLC. And of course, full report on the Ohlins rebuild will be coming in due course! Drop me a PM if you want to discuss intercoolers.