Has JCB saved engines?

[cidered77]

jagfan2 said:

cidered77 said:

Well now you've frightened me into trying to make my own crank at home....

I do completely get the point on interoperability of parts though... and only recently getting hands on with cars/racecars, can see the incredible precision and near total uniqueness of most parts making up my various motors. With the associated energy required to make...

One thought i've had a few times - ignoring competitive forces and industry opposition for now, wouldn't one longer term solution be a universal standard for battery interface? A kind of "USB for battery tech" . You could then completely decouple the powertrain supply chain from the building of cars, and you also create potential for the public to only upgrade their battery, and keep the same car (with many less moving parts) going for much longer, with the associated reduction in energy from production. We have common networking standards (GSM/3G/4g/5G/MPLS/etc etc), whereas all the telcos would much prefer they remain proprietary after all

It's not far removed from Tesla today, really - that Model S looks the same as it did nearly 10 years ago now; they're not bothered with what it looks like, and endless grill or lights changings, and neither are the buyers it seems. They're differentiating on software, and battery/motor tech.... could that be the future of cars i wonder.....

To use your analogy, why don't mobiles all have the same battery so its easily replaceable when it looses capacity or fails, or so you could keep your newer better battery when you swap phones? or even in power tools? Unfortunately the proprietary nature makes them money.

Also here isnt a universal battery pack, for the same reason there isnt a universal engine or fuel tank standard, they are large lumps and very specific to each platform, OEMs are just about working out how to standardise them internally let alone with other manufacturers. And as we see in motorsport and passenger cars, the battery software is critical to range, so this tends to be proprietary.

However the HV connectors (hidden and visible) are effectively industry standard now, which is significantly reducing cost, and will do further as 800v/400v systems become more standard

Yeah i get it, but also - there are many areas where standards have formed, sometimes by regulation, and sometimes because the industry pushes for it.

USB - even Apple now moving to USB-C rather than proprietary. Light bulbs; most telecommunications standards now all common - before Joseph Whitworth even screws and fasteners were all manufacturer specific and not interchangeable.

It's not being imagination than someone like Tesla, or someone new starts to product only the platform, with ease of upgrade a selling point - and the OEMs (or new companies who see an opportunity) just wrap up the rest. A return to old school coachbuilding. Might even be quite cool......

[nickfrog]

Volvolover said:

I must say with the VAG BEVS that have recently been announced I can see them selling like water in the dessert to the general punter

True, have you ordered yours yet?

[Megaflow]

nickfrog said:

Volvolover said:

I must say with the VAG BEVS that have recently been announced I can see them selling like water in the dessert to the general punter

True, have you ordered yours yet?

Indeed. The ID3 is partly so called because VW see it as thier third generation after the Beetle and Golf. They have quite literally bet the future of the business on it.

The other reason for the 3, is space for the Polo, 2, and the Up, 1, below it.

[Volvolover]

nickfrog said:

Volvolover said:

I must say with the VAG BEVS that have recently been announced I can see them selling like water in the dessert to the general punter

True, have you ordered yours yet?

No but hopefully in September I can have a look at a BEV company car to replace my wifes petrol ICE

[cidered77]

i've worked in telecommunications all my career, so have seen some of the changes in ICT there maybe a little closer - but aallll of them followed the same path of initial doubt/scepticism > early adopter takeup but it's still actually a bit s**t > technology maturity and the increasing realisation "hang on, this is actually good" and then finally > unstoppable exponential growth.

Adoption of mobile from the early/mid 90s - "why do you need a mobile phone for, they give off radiation anyway and will give you cancer"- said the middle aged grumpy people. Then people got it, and the biggest companies in the world in that period were in that business.

Growth of the internet from that weird piece of text you started seeing on TV adverts from ~1995, to the dot com boom hype cycle, to well -'changing pretty much everything'. The middle aged grumpy people said "all a load of hype, people will always want to see and feel the products they buy. its for geeks. and it's too slow anyway. "

I was there when the first 3G network was launched, and had my hands on some of the very first camera phones and around for the 3g spectrum auctions: then it was all - "why do we need a crap camera on our phones, and who is ever going to do video calls (fair - until 2020), and nobody is ever going to read the internet on a phone", etc - said the middle aged grumpy people. Then we got more data on our phones, and the increase in data consumption is still increasing (in fact, we record more information today in 45 mins than *all of human history until 2003* - and a lot of that from our phones!).

I was an early adopter for smart phones, struggling with clunky windows mobile, even the first iPhone whilst beautiful wasn't actually "good": "The battery life is crap, i just want the phone to work - why can't a phone be a phone, etc", said our grumpy friends. Now even my dad has one. And he still doesn't really know what the internet is, and doesn't even know he uses it all the time with amazon, youtube ,etc

Social networking, gone from FriendsReunited and worries on data, and near universal adoption, literally changing pretty much all society and literally shaping governments (teenage drinking down - first time since teenagers started drinking, largely influenced by the 'gram; massive resurgence of populism, etc) - but still worries on data.

All of these things had the same basic ingredients as this change - the product is actually better than what we had before, and there is Lots and Lots of Money been thrown at it by Lots and Lots of Organisations. Take those two things - and time and time again, change you may not like happens anyway. It's just this one happens to threaten we all love a lot - but we're not the majority, our number will reduce over time as the kids care less about engine noise and owning a car as a symbol of freedom. So it's just going to happen/is happening, and that is that.

[Volvolover]

cidered77 said:

i've worked in telecommunications all my career, so have seen some of the changes in ICT there maybe a little closer - but aallll of them followed the same path of initial doubt/scepticism > early adopter takeup but it's still actually a bit s**t > technology maturity and the increasing realisation "hang on, this is actually good" and then finally > unstoppable exponential growth.

Adoption of mobile from the early/mid 90s - "why do you need a mobile phone for, they give off radiation anyway and will give you cancer"- said the middle aged grumpy people. Then people got it, and the biggest companies in the world in that period were in that business.

Growth of the internet from that weird piece of text you started seeing on TV adverts from ~1995, to the dot com boom hype cycle, to well -'changing pretty much everything'. The middle aged grumpy people said "all a load of hype, people will always want to see and feel the products they buy. its for geeks. and it's too slow anyway. "

I was there when the first 3G network was launched, and had my hands on some of the very first camera phones and around for the 3g spectrum auctions: then it was all - "why do we need a crap camera on our phones, and who is ever going to do video calls (fair - until 2020), and nobody is ever going to read the internet on a phone", etc - said the middle aged grumpy people. Then we got more data on our phones, and the increase in data consumption is still increasing (in fact, we record more information today in 45 mins than *all of human history until 2003* - and a lot of that from our phones!).

I was an early adopter for smart phones, struggling with clunky windows mobile, even the first iPhone whilst beautiful wasn't actually "good": "The battery life is crap, i just want the phone to work - why can't a phone be a phone, etc", said our grumpy friends. Now even my dad has one. And he still doesn't really know what the internet is, and doesn't even know he uses it all the time with amazon, youtube ,etc

Social networking, gone from FriendsReunited and worries on data, and near universal adoption, literally changing pretty much all society and literally shaping governments (teenage drinking down - first time since teenagers started drinking, largely influenced by the 'gram; massive resurgence of populism, etc) - but still worries on data.

All of these things had the same basic ingredients as this change - the product is actually better than what we had before, and there is Lots and Lots of Money been thrown at it by Lots and Lots of Organisations. Take those two things - and time and time again, change you may not like happens anyway. It's just this one happens to threaten we all love a lot - but we're not the majority, our number will reduce over time as the kids care less about engine noise and owning a car as a symbol of freedom. So it's just going to happen/is happening, and that is that.

Yeah I had a windows smartphone (Orange/HTC SPV c-500) running windows 2003......my mates laughed but i could always get the footy results, find a taxi number or pull birds on messenger while i was in the pub haha

[Megaflow]

Volvolover said:

Yeah I had a windows smartphone (Orange/HTC SPV c-500) running windows 2003......my mates laughed but i could always get the footy results, find a taxi number or pull birds on messenger while i was in the pub haha

But there is the key thing, you haven’t still got it now have you?

[cidered77]

Volvolover said:

Yeah I had a windows smartphone (Orange/HTC SPV c-500) running windows 2003......my mates laughed but i could always get the footy results, find a taxi number or pull birds on messenger while i was in the pub haha

ironically enough, an early 20 something Cidered77 in about 1998 lost several weeks of getting end away with a very nice young lady had a "special friends" arrangement with, because she worked in Waterstones, and got really angry at the notion that this "amazon" thing was going to mean no more Waterstones in about 2 years.

Now admittedly, i was a little too early with that prediction, and they probably do still exist in a much smaller capacity - but i think i have the moral victory at least. Wonder if she's on facebook......

[NMNeil]

fido said:

That's not a fair comparison. If you take the end-to-end efficiency of an electric car then it's lower than this - you're only looking at the electric motor itself which of course is efficient - it should be! In the same way the turbo- part of an ICE engine is extremely efficient. Mining lithium is a filthy process.

You mentioned the electric motor which has been overlooked.
They will never pollute the air, are 100% recyclable, and if they ever go wrong it will probably only be the bearings, all the other parts are non contact.
The electronic controls may break but then so do the electronics in ICE engines, and ICE engines pollute the air more as they age, until it's uneconomic to fix them.

[otolith]

fido said:

Mining lithium is a filthy process.

Compared to what?

"Mining" oil?
Mining iron?
Mining aluminium?
Mining copper?
Mining lead?
Mining platinum?
Mining rhodium?

Are those filthy? Is your ICE knitted from organic hemp?

[Volvolover]

Megaflow said:

Volvolover said:

Yeah I had a windows smartphone (Orange/HTC SPV c-500) running windows 2003......my mates laughed but i could always get the footy results, find a taxi number or pull birds on messenger while i was in the pub haha

But there is the key thing, you haven’t still got it now have you?

Not sure of relevance but …..

[Megaflow]

Volvolover said:

Megaflow said:

Volvolover said:

Yeah I had a windows smartphone (Orange/HTC SPV c-500) running windows 2003......my mates laughed but i could always get the footy results, find a taxi number or pull birds on messenger while i was in the pub haha

But there is the key thing, you haven’t still got it now have you?

Not sure of relevance but …..

The relevance being phone technology has improved hugely since then and must people wouldn’t dream of using such a thing. Most people can see how, for 90-95% of what most cars are used for, a BEV is better. Now we have seen what phone you are using, your are not in most…

[Volvolover]

Megaflow said:

Volvolover said:

Megaflow said:

Volvolover said:

Yeah I had a windows smartphone (Orange/HTC SPV c-500) running windows 2003......my mates laughed but i could always get the footy results, find a taxi number or pull birds on messenger while i was in the pub haha

But there is the key thing, you haven’t still got it now have you?

Not sure of relevance but …..

The relevance being phone technology has improved hugely since then and must people wouldn’t dream of using such a thing. Most people can see how, for 90-95% of what most cars are used for, a BEV is better. Now we have seen what phone you are using, your are not in most…

It’s in the draw. I’m on an iPhone pro max

Edited by Volvolover on Thursday 10th June 19:39

[Megaflow]

Ah, sorry, by got it, I meant you are not still using it.

[jagfan2]

Thread revival, but twigged why JCB are getting into hydrogen, Sons company have a bunch of Gov and Eu funding for H2 buses, delivered the first of 20 to Brum last week, but fuel cell rather than h2 ICE

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-...