RE: Musk cancels Tesla Model S Plaid+
Discussion
h0b0 said:
Your warranty would be void.
These cars were Elon’s BS attempt to rubbish Porsche. The Plaid editions were bolted together moments after Porsche set a “record” at the ring. Now the Taycan is out he no longer needs to screw with their launch.
Unfortunately, the masses don’t seem to realize that a car that can “do 0-60 in less than 2 seconds” but will have the warranty voided if you try, is not a good thing! The Tesla Model S plaid, a model shape that has been around for nearly 10 years, is in the same ball park cost as a Taycan Turbo.
The real Tesla gimmic died years ago when BMW came out with the I range. They were not alone either. Tesla have resorted to childish “eleveneriffe” marketing and continued to fail to deliver.
Say what? What nonsense is that about the warranty being voided if you put your foot down in any Tesla? I dislike Tesla for a multitude of reasons but this one's something even I have difficulty believing!These cars were Elon’s BS attempt to rubbish Porsche. The Plaid editions were bolted together moments after Porsche set a “record” at the ring. Now the Taycan is out he no longer needs to screw with their launch.
Unfortunately, the masses don’t seem to realize that a car that can “do 0-60 in less than 2 seconds” but will have the warranty voided if you try, is not a good thing! The Tesla Model S plaid, a model shape that has been around for nearly 10 years, is in the same ball park cost as a Taycan Turbo.
The real Tesla gimmic died years ago when BMW came out with the I range. They were not alone either. Tesla have resorted to childish “eleveneriffe” marketing and continued to fail to deliver.
redroadster said:
Tesla are been caught up too at a rapid rate, think he will sell out soon too much competition has arrived with better build quality from the European big guns, this was always going to happen think tesla has peaked.
Agree on the quality of the big manufacturers being in a different league. But until they have anything even remotely resembling the Supercharger network, I would not consider a BEV from them.I am based in the US, and drove in mid May from Connecticut to Florida. My Model X drove the majority of the way for me using Autopilot (its 99% highwys all the way there), guided me to Supercharges at each step of the way on the route, charged the car for only long enough to make it to the next supercharger (takes the guesswork and planning out of the whole journey), and made the whole experience effortless and stress free. That's why Tesla is really the only viable game in town, and unfortunately interior design and overall build quality are secondary considerations.
QuickQuack said:
h0b0 said:
Your warranty would be void.
These cars were Elon’s BS attempt to rubbish Porsche. The Plaid editions were bolted together moments after Porsche set a “record” at the ring. Now the Taycan is out he no longer needs to screw with their launch.
Unfortunately, the masses don’t seem to realize that a car that can “do 0-60 in less than 2 seconds” but will have the warranty voided if you try, is not a good thing! The Tesla Model S plaid, a model shape that has been around for nearly 10 years, is in the same ball park cost as a Taycan Turbo.
The real Tesla gimmic died years ago when BMW came out with the I range. They were not alone either. Tesla have resorted to childish “eleveneriffe” marketing and continued to fail to deliver.
Say what? What nonsense is that about the warranty being voided if you put your foot down in any Tesla? I dislike Tesla for a multitude of reasons but this one's something even I have difficulty believing!These cars were Elon’s BS attempt to rubbish Porsche. The Plaid editions were bolted together moments after Porsche set a “record” at the ring. Now the Taycan is out he no longer needs to screw with their launch.
Unfortunately, the masses don’t seem to realize that a car that can “do 0-60 in less than 2 seconds” but will have the warranty voided if you try, is not a good thing! The Tesla Model S plaid, a model shape that has been around for nearly 10 years, is in the same ball park cost as a Taycan Turbo.
The real Tesla gimmic died years ago when BMW came out with the I range. They were not alone either. Tesla have resorted to childish “eleveneriffe” marketing and continued to fail to deliver.
Tesla said:
"Using Launch Mode places an increased stress on the entire powertrain accelerating aging and fatigue of various components. The computer systems automatically track Launch Mode usage and continually estimate fatigue damage. Depending on how Launch Mode is used, the computer may eventually limit the available power during Launch Mode to protect the powertrain. Note that this is a common strategy also employed in other high performance cars."
Abuse to the car through use is mentioned in the warranty document as a reason to void and they permanently limit performance if you use Elon’s much publicized launch mode. Granted, Nissan tried something similar and relented. Also, Porsche made a huge deal of being able to launch as many times as you wanted because of Tesla.
I wonder how often normal owners will launch their car like that, occasionally to see what it can do, few times to scare passengers and then less often as it will lose its novelty and there aren’t that many opportunities to let a two plus tonne car accelerate like that.
Plus they are still massively rapid without the full Plaid launch which I assume if it’s like other Tesla’s needs a bit of preparation to heat the batteries etc.
Plus, it’s actually quite unpleasant/uncomfortable and I have only been in lower powered ones, it’s a neat party piece but even the lowest powered one is way in excess of what you need 99.9 percent of the time.
As folk get used to them it will lose its shock and awe factor and just be like annoying passengers by doing a full emergency stop for the sake of it. Long way to go on that as was speaking to someone who said they wouldnt have a “Milk float” as they aren’t fast enough, I showed him a YouTube video of a Tesla out dragging (at least initially) a Lamborghini and he said it must have been tuned, still thought his old 3.2 Jag XJ would be quicker in the real world and how he loves upsetting the boy racers in their hot hatches, maybe a mk1 Golf GTI with a compression problem.
Plus they are still massively rapid without the full Plaid launch which I assume if it’s like other Tesla’s needs a bit of preparation to heat the batteries etc.
Plus, it’s actually quite unpleasant/uncomfortable and I have only been in lower powered ones, it’s a neat party piece but even the lowest powered one is way in excess of what you need 99.9 percent of the time.
As folk get used to them it will lose its shock and awe factor and just be like annoying passengers by doing a full emergency stop for the sake of it. Long way to go on that as was speaking to someone who said they wouldnt have a “Milk float” as they aren’t fast enough, I showed him a YouTube video of a Tesla out dragging (at least initially) a Lamborghini and he said it must have been tuned, still thought his old 3.2 Jag XJ would be quicker in the real world and how he loves upsetting the boy racers in their hot hatches, maybe a mk1 Golf GTI with a compression problem.
J4CKO said:
I wonder how often normal owners will launch their car like that, occasionally to see what it can do, few times to scare passengers and then less often as it will lose its novelty and there aren’t that many opportunities to let a two plus tonne car accelerate like that.
Plus they are still massively rapid without the full Plaid launch which I assume if it’s like other Tesla’s needs a bit of preparation to heat the batteries etc.
Plus, it’s actually quite unpleasant/uncomfortable and I have only been in lower powered ones, it’s a neat party piece but even the lowest powered one is way in excess of what you need 99.9 percent of the time.
As folk get used to them it will lose its shock and awe factor and just be like annoying passengers by doing a full emergency stop for the sake of it. Long way to go on that as was speaking to someone who said they wouldnt have a “Milk float” as they aren’t fast enough, I showed him a YouTube video of a Tesla out dragging (at least initially) a Lamborghini and he said it must have been tuned, still thought his old 3.2 Jag XJ would be quicker in the real world and how he loves upsetting the boy racers in their hot hatches, maybe a mk1 Golf GTI with a compression problem.
I like fast cars but I’ve been somewhat humbled even by just my Model 3. It feels like a rollercoaster on WOT, presumably due to the instant torque. It makes me feel mildly queasy if I’m not anticipating it, in a way I’ve not previously felt owning even faster cars.Plus they are still massively rapid without the full Plaid launch which I assume if it’s like other Tesla’s needs a bit of preparation to heat the batteries etc.
Plus, it’s actually quite unpleasant/uncomfortable and I have only been in lower powered ones, it’s a neat party piece but even the lowest powered one is way in excess of what you need 99.9 percent of the time.
As folk get used to them it will lose its shock and awe factor and just be like annoying passengers by doing a full emergency stop for the sake of it. Long way to go on that as was speaking to someone who said they wouldnt have a “Milk float” as they aren’t fast enough, I showed him a YouTube video of a Tesla out dragging (at least initially) a Lamborghini and he said it must have been tuned, still thought his old 3.2 Jag XJ would be quicker in the real world and how he loves upsetting the boy racers in their hot hatches, maybe a mk1 Golf GTI with a compression problem.
I’ve always found it a bit puzzling that 0-60 times are still a major focus of the Model S and particularly Model X. 0-60 in 1.99 seconds must feel like something else, but unless you’re on your own in the car I can’t imagine it’s something you’d do regularly.
With the X the presumption is you’d have your family with you most of the time, or at least your partner. A people carrier that does 0-60 in 3 seconds? I can’t see most partners being agreeable to regular hard launches, particularly given the unique torquey nature of the car as mentioned previously. “Hey kids it’s been a long day, fancy throwing up?”. Maybe I’m just being a bit of a stick in the mud, but I’d presume the most important elements of a EV SUV are range, space and comfort, not speed.
At this point I think everyone knows that EVs cream ICE cars in acceleration. Getting the range up is surely the priority? Save the 0-60 obsession for the Roadster.
I might be in the minority but I have never used launch control in any of my cars - not really interested in it and as pointed out just puts unnecessary stress on components. Rather put stress on them on a track day or similar. Do use most of the acceleration capabilities at high speeds relatively regularly though / still not WOT, but close anyway.
nunpuncher said:
I bet the head of engineering and design gets up every morning s
tting himself that Elon's been drunk and on Twitter again.
I’m still amazed the Head of Compliance and Legal Affairs hasn’t taken his Twitter account from him, replaced with an in-house app that sends everything he wants to Tweet to the lawyers for approval. tting himself that Elon's been drunk and on Twitter again.Looks like they couldn’t get the tech right on this one, which means they’re trading on nothing but the hype - just as their competition catches up. Once the non-Tesla charging network is in place, they’re going to struggle.
Durzel said:
J4CKO said:
I wonder how often normal owners will launch their car like that, occasionally to see what it can do, few times to scare passengers and then less often as it will lose its novelty and there aren’t that many opportunities to let a two plus tonne car accelerate like that.
Plus they are still massively rapid without the full Plaid launch which I assume if it’s like other Tesla’s needs a bit of preparation to heat the batteries etc.
Plus, it’s actually quite unpleasant/uncomfortable and I have only been in lower powered ones, it’s a neat party piece but even the lowest powered one is way in excess of what you need 99.9 percent of the time.
As folk get used to them it will lose its shock and awe factor and just be like annoying passengers by doing a full emergency stop for the sake of it. Long way to go on that as was speaking to someone who said they wouldnt have a “Milk float” as they aren’t fast enough, I showed him a YouTube video of a Tesla out dragging (at least initially) a Lamborghini and he said it must have been tuned, still thought his old 3.2 Jag XJ would be quicker in the real world and how he loves upsetting the boy racers in their hot hatches, maybe a mk1 Golf GTI with a compression problem.
I like fast cars but I’ve been somewhat humbled even by just my Model 3. It feels like a rollercoaster on WOT, presumably due to the instant torque. It makes me feel mildly queasy if I’m not anticipating it, in a way I’ve not previously felt owning even faster cars.Plus they are still massively rapid without the full Plaid launch which I assume if it’s like other Tesla’s needs a bit of preparation to heat the batteries etc.
Plus, it’s actually quite unpleasant/uncomfortable and I have only been in lower powered ones, it’s a neat party piece but even the lowest powered one is way in excess of what you need 99.9 percent of the time.
As folk get used to them it will lose its shock and awe factor and just be like annoying passengers by doing a full emergency stop for the sake of it. Long way to go on that as was speaking to someone who said they wouldnt have a “Milk float” as they aren’t fast enough, I showed him a YouTube video of a Tesla out dragging (at least initially) a Lamborghini and he said it must have been tuned, still thought his old 3.2 Jag XJ would be quicker in the real world and how he loves upsetting the boy racers in their hot hatches, maybe a mk1 Golf GTI with a compression problem.
I’ve always found it a bit puzzling that 0-60 times are still a major focus of the Model S and particularly Model X. 0-60 in 1.99 seconds must feel like something else, but unless you’re on your own in the car I can’t imagine it’s something you’d do regularly.
With the X the presumption is you’d have your family with you most of the time, or at least your partner. A people carrier that does 0-60 in 3 seconds? I can’t see most partners being agreeable to regular hard launches, particularly given the unique torquey nature of the car as mentioned previously. “Hey kids it’s been a long day, fancy throwing up?”. Maybe I’m just being a bit of a stick in the mud, but I’d presume the most important elements of a EV SUV are range, space and comfort, not speed.
At this point I think everyone knows that EVs cream ICE cars in acceleration. Getting the range up is surely the priority? Save the 0-60 obsession for the Roadster.
Acceleration is like a lot of commodities, used to be in short supply but over time it gets easier to provide, EV's being the enabler here for a car like the Model 3 which is otherwise pretty normal in many ways, it just happens to be faster than comparable ICE vehicles and a s
t load more economical as its not wasting loads of energy in noise, heat, light and braking. My brother was saying he could forgo his Co car allowance and get one but though he finds it appealing it maybe one of those scenarios where, as you have been tainted by enjoying IC Engines you may get it and after the novelty it might just feel a bit like "Oh god, what have I done", lured in by ridiculous acceleration numbers.
I am not shy in saying this is the way its going, no two ways about it, we will probably end up with one but it wont be my only car, a lot is made of "Soul" but its b
ks really, its just the noise and having something to do with your left hand but it is pretty compelling.I dont think they need hundreds of bhp for most uses, even the lower end ones step off pretty briskly and providing decent power in a family sized one is trivial, no really need for 500 bhp, 200 is more than adequate when paired with that instant torque.
Suppose the question is, do any EV drivers ever just go out for a drive, or take the long route home ? I have only been in a couple of Model S's and not driven one myself yet, so really need to drive one properly.
Its weird reading my weekly Autocar, most pages are dominated by EV content, its coming, best get used to it !
CoolHands said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Shock horror.
"no need, Plaid is just so good"
That sounds exactly like the words uttered by someone who's keen to drive technology forward
It reminded me of the way Trump says things."no need, Plaid is just so good"
That sounds exactly like the words uttered by someone who's keen to drive technology forward
Is he losing credibility yet?
Tesla is delivering a 1100bhp family car with 400 miles of range next week and you are complaining that they are no longer committing to deliver a 1100+bhp family car with 520 miles range next year.
I think Elon Musk's engineering leadership is pretty credible, even if SpaceX/Tesla are late it's normally because they are doing something which is a massive leap and planning to do it in a fraction of time their rivals would.
Musk is the 1-3rd richest person in the world and likely to pull ahead fairly decisively in the near future as Tesla continues to execute and SpaceX delivers internet to underserved people in every free country in the world.
Unless he dies or does something very illegal he's probably going to be the worlds first trillionaire.
Sandpit Steve said:
nunpuncher said:
I bet the head of engineering and design gets up every morning stting himself that Elon's been drunk and on Twitter again.
I’m still amazed the Head of Compliance and Legal Affairs hasn’t taken his Twitter account from him, replaced with an in-house app that sends everything he wants to Tweet to the lawyers for approval. tting himself that Elon's been drunk and on Twitter again.Looks like they couldn’t get the tech right on this one, which means they’re trading on nothing but the hype - just as their competition catches up. Once the non-Tesla charging network is in place, they’re going to struggle.
Tesla also has the capacity to produce 1.1 million million cars and turns over $50 billion it doubles in size every 2 years and at that rate will be the worlds largest car maker before 2026. The Model 3 is the worlds best selling premium car and the Model Y is on course to be the worlds best selling car by revenue next year.
It doesn't matter if the mainstream manufacturers products are catching up on range and performance non of them are anywhere near Tesla on scaling up BEV production. The people going to struggle are existing ICE car makers.
At the moment a substantial proportion of car buyers now expect that their next car will be electric, simply because they are seeing more of them about and maybe know somebody with an EV, also see massive tax benefits for company cars. The net result is that when BEV penetration hits a certain proportion of the market I expect that there will be a massive drop off in people buying ICE cars as they know that they will be obsolete with corresponding impacts on residual values.
How do we think existing manufacturers will do when they have say 10-20% of their range as BEVs and the demand for their other 80-90% of vehicles drops off a cliff?
All existing western car manufacturers have this risk hanging over them Tesla doesn't it just has to grow, that's why they are the worlds most valuable industrial company.
Muddle238 said:
+1
The Tesla Supercharger network is the one thing that draws me to Tesla over any other manufacturer, despite not really being all that impressed with Tesla cars themselves. I’ve seen a far few YouTube videos of people trying to charge up their non-Tesla cars using Ecotricity points for example, it seems to be a right faff and hit and miss whether they even work or not.
Unfortunately for Tesla, they insist on not bothering with interior design, instead thinking that an excessively large touch screen is a suitable alternative to actually designing a cabin. As such, I shall not be joining the BEV movement anytime soon it seems…
I actually thought the same as you, but I implore you... Book a test drive online in the Model 3 and then come back here and tell me. They're doing unaccompanied test drives (for a few hours).The Tesla Supercharger network is the one thing that draws me to Tesla over any other manufacturer, despite not really being all that impressed with Tesla cars themselves. I’ve seen a far few YouTube videos of people trying to charge up their non-Tesla cars using Ecotricity points for example, it seems to be a right faff and hit and miss whether they even work or not.
Unfortunately for Tesla, they insist on not bothering with interior design, instead thinking that an excessively large touch screen is a suitable alternative to actually designing a cabin. As such, I shall not be joining the BEV movement anytime soon it seems…
When you do, come back here and tell us your thoughts. I went in expecting junk (for reference).
I think head of engineer must actually wake-up and think what useful feature is he going to scrap in favour of another totally pointless one. Who really cares if it's 2secs or 3.2 secs it's still quick. I think ultimately this will be the undoing of Tesla, not solving cost of production and perceived limitation of the product.
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