RE: Lotus previews new Emira interior
Discussion
AndyGT430 said:
otolith said:
I think the focus of the Emira suggests that the mass market sportscar is exactly where they are going.
They are aiming the Emira squarely at the 718, power, auto, manual, model variation and price point. I think Lotus will win on looks, the Jury is out on the rest - still hasn't stopped me ordering one!Northernboy said:
dandare said:
It's not an insult. Reaction times and coordination differs.
I'm sorry if I touched a nerve.
You didnt touch a nerve, you just wrote something pretty stupid. Why do you think motorsport at the top level favours automatic gearboxes?I'm sorry if I touched a nerve.
When I'm in a single-seater, I'm usually using a sadev 6-speed pneumatic rally box with a paddleshift.
In my road car, for driving on roads, I'm using a manual and enjoying it.
Horses for courses.
I do snigger at the cuckbox moniker though, that's funny.
otolith said:
Aiming between the 718 and 911, but yes, the 4 cylinder model should go up against it. But those are mass market sportscars. They're as easy to live with as a Golf.
I believed that hype about the 911. I thought it'd replace both a proper sports car and a saloon, whereas the truth is it does neither as well as more purpose-built cars. I never got on with mine at all, and think it very unlikely I'll go back.You can fit a television in the back of a Golf, you can hardly fit a baby in the back of a 911.
DonkeyApple said:
otolith said:
DonkeyApple said:
The 2L AMG engine would probably be quite superb in something like this. And have the right badge/image for the customers they're targeting.
That will be hilarious, that they consider the four pot peasant engine the more desirable choice because of the badge it won't actually have on it 
No apex consumer considers the quality of the goods but what the badge says. Hence why brands have never been more important and never has so much money been invested in promoting the 'ethos' of the brand while the quality is stripped away as no one ultimately cares about those things.
No one cares what's inside a Rolex. What matters is that it can been seen to be a Rolex at a distance and that the viewer has heard the message about Rolex from Rolex. It's why they've never needed to get them to keep time properly.
A Toyota product is what the bloke who lives in a shed at the end of a garden near Heathrow collects you in when you e finished drinking. A Mercedes is what you select to arrive in when others are looking.
It's the ghastly, vulgar and base world of the new money consumer. It's what Lotus has comprehensively failed to target for over two decades and exactly why they've sold bigger all cars and are a once great brand looked down upon by all consumers as being for blokes with no money, no women and no charisma. It's why we love them as driver's cars.
Northernboy said:
otolith said:
Aiming between the 718 and 911, but yes, the 4 cylinder model should go up against it. But those are mass market sportscars. They're as easy to live with as a Golf.
I believed that hype about the 911. I thought it'd replace both a proper sports car and a saloon, whereas the truth is it does neither as well as more purpose-built cars. I never got on with mine at all, and think it very unlikely I'll go back.You can fit a television in the back of a Golf, you can hardly fit a baby in the back of a 911.
DonkeyApple said:
Tuna said:
firmly in the same bracket as the 911 from a budget point of view, so you've got to offer something exceptional to mark you out as being different from the "safe choice".
True. But plenty of cars have the same price but are pointed at different user demographics. Maybe Lotus need a new tagli e to ensure people don't think it's some kind of Porsche alternative? Maybe something like: 'Your mum wouldn't buy one.' 'Grandpa isn't comfortable in a Lotus.' Or 'Don't stretch yourself financially just for the neighbours.'
flukey5 said:
Northernboy said:
So are you actually in the market to buy one if it’s available in manual?
The suggestion made by others is that very few buyers will want a manual, are you a genuine datapoint against that?
Depends on the actual price, but if it's under £60k, available in a manual and they aren't offering some ridiculous finance at 9% then I'm in. If not then I'm buying a nearly new elise. I'm putting the Audi up for sale this month so I should have my deposit ready when the time comes. The MX-5 can be my daily for a while.... not a bad thing in this weather.The suggestion made by others is that very few buyers will want a manual, are you a genuine datapoint against that?
Edited by flukey5 on Tuesday 8th June 12:55
PhantomPH said:
where you might have had a problem is that they all use the same values and data when calculating GFV which I suspect on a Lotus was not great. Compare that with the more robust residuals of a Porsche product and I think Lotus will have always been losing the money battle.
That's the bizarre thing, though. The residuals are good.https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=u...
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=u...
otolith said:
PhantomPH said:
where you might have had a problem is that they all use the same values and data when calculating GFV which I suspect on a Lotus was not great. Compare that with the more robust residuals of a Porsche product and I think Lotus will have always been losing the money battle.
That's the bizarre thing, though. The residuals are good.As such you get cars that seem extremely expensive to buy on finance but end up with good amounts of equity at the end.
It's the same with my MX-5 vs my Audi TT. The TT was cheaper to buy despite being 5k more expensive because VW finance vs Mazda using Santander. The TT has had a lot less equity at the end of the agreement whereas the Mazda will comfortably be in the positive.
otolith said:
I wasn't thinking so much interior space as the fact that they are comfortable, civilised cars which are very easy to drive, to get in and out of, to park. Part of the reason the 911 left me cold was that it was too good at pretending to be ordinary unless you pushed it far harder than was prudent. But for commuting from Surrey to Canary Wharf, easy.
The latest 911s are no longer that easy to live with - in trying to keep the weight down they have ditched some soundproofing and are now pretty noisy (See Harry's Garage review). In truth, they have suffered from a lot of road noise in recent times. The 718 suffers similarly. So, for those looking for a better long distance companion Lotus could offer something. The A110 already does offer a quieter option, but much of the Porsche market requires more bling too. Will the Emira offer that? Soon find out.Northernboy said:
CraigyMc said:
Top level motorsport doesn't care about driving enjoyment.
Which has nothing to do with the point I was responding to, which was the claim that automatics are for people with slow brains. My nan does better in an auto than in a manual because there's less for her brain to cope with in an auto.
Is that your point?
otolith said:
DonkeyApple said:
Tuna said:
firmly in the same bracket as the 911 from a budget point of view, so you've got to offer something exceptional to mark you out as being different from the "safe choice".
True. But plenty of cars have the same price but are pointed at different user demographics. Maybe Lotus need a new tagli e to ensure people don't think it's some kind of Porsche alternative? Maybe something like: 'Your mum wouldn't buy one.' 'Grandpa isn't comfortable in a Lotus.' Or 'Don't stretch yourself financially just for the neighbours.'
"Anyone can rent a Porsche. Only winners own a Lotus"
flukey5 said:
otolith said:
PhantomPH said:
where you might have had a problem is that they all use the same values and data when calculating GFV which I suspect on a Lotus was not great. Compare that with the more robust residuals of a Porsche product and I think Lotus will have always been losing the money battle.
That's the bizarre thing, though. The residuals are good.As such you get cars that seem extremely expensive to buy on finance but end up with good amounts of equity at the end.
It's the same with my MX-5 vs my Audi TT. The TT was cheaper to buy despite being 5k more expensive because VW finance vs Mazda using Santander. The TT has had a lot less equity at the end of the agreement whereas the Mazda will comfortably be in the positive.
For the first time ever, we are probably going to end up keeping the OH's Q5 to the end of the agreement and hand it back. It's in neg equity and I can't see that changing (again, for the first time ever for one of our cars). So we may as well hand it back to Audi and say, "There you go guys - that's your problem now"...
But that's another conversation for another thread.
PhantomPH said:
I actually see big trouble ahead with GFV tho. The world has changed so fast I can only see the finance companies being left holding the can when the arse drops (or rather continues to drop) out of the ICE market...particularly diesel vehicles. They will have to find the money from somewhere, so something is about to get damned expensive pretty quick. I can see all of them trying to recover some losses by firming up the prices of finance on all vehicles including EV to try and plug the leak.
For the first time ever, we are probably going to end up keeping the OH's Q5 to the end of the agreement and hand it back. It's in neg equity and I can't see that changing (again, for the first time ever for one of our cars). So we may as well hand it back to Audi and say, "There you go guys - that's your problem now"...
But that's another conversation for another thread.
Yeah honestly I see things going the same way. Big finance houses (like VW finance) have been over-valuing GFV's for a while because they're making money on the interest anyway and they just want to get you in a car. I had exactly the same situation with my TT. I was about to hand it back when the market recently picked up for used cars (it gained 3k in value in 3 months!). So I purchased it and will sell privately. Might be a good time to look at the value of that Q5 now - I bet it's gone upFor the first time ever, we are probably going to end up keeping the OH's Q5 to the end of the agreement and hand it back. It's in neg equity and I can't see that changing (again, for the first time ever for one of our cars). So we may as well hand it back to Audi and say, "There you go guys - that's your problem now"...
But that's another conversation for another thread.
CraigyMc said:
Well.. they are, aren't they?
My nan does better in an auto than in a manual because there's less for her brain to cope with in an auto.
Is that your point?
It’s more the point if we’re going down that road that slow cars are for slow brains, really.My nan does better in an auto than in a manual because there's less for her brain to cope with in an auto.
Is that your point?
Which is fortunate of course, as people with slow brains don’t tend to end up in control of the faster cars.
blueg33 said:
Why are so many people on PH negative about Lotus cars?
They're negative about everything, because negative comments get more reaction, and they don't get enough attention at home.I'm looking forward to seeing the finished car. With the backing they've now got, there's a good chance that Lotus will come up with something fantastic. It'd be even better if it's a sales success too.
Pumpsmynads said:
Lotus want to create (a car) that drivers of other manufacturer’s vehicles want to move from.
Shhh, that's reckless talk! You'll upset the,- beards
- loyal customers
- real drivers
- genuine enthusiasts
- etc
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff