RE: Lotus previews new Emira interior

[malaccamax]

kambites said:

delta0 said:

I’ve always felt Lotus was a bit parts bin. You can often put 2 Elises of the same model together and they would have different parts on them.

Well yes bit that would also be true of say a Golf. Manufacturers constantly improve their cars within a particular model run. I know from trying to buy parts for out Skoda that most engine ancillaries were changed at least twice during the course of the mk2 Octavia VRS's production. In 14 years of maintaining my Elise I've found remarkably few components which were changed during the S2 111S production run. In fact I can't actually think of any off the top of my head.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 10th June 09:13

And that probably indicates a failing within Lotus, that they haven't switched suppliers or asked them to update parts as part of cost exercises.

[otolith]

DonkeyApple said:

So these things are stupid, they are snobbish and the world has moved to sharing more than ever before but that doesn't mean this aspect isn't hugely important because for Lotus it most definitely is. Whose switchgear they use is vital to get right.

Looks like they are using Volvo/Geely kit - you can see what looks to be the same steering wheel (albeit differently trimmed) and digital dash from the teaser shots in various Lynk & Co and Volvo products.

[kambites]

malaccamax said:

And that probably indicates a failing within Lotus, that they haven't switched suppliers or asked them to update parts as part of cost exercises.

Or they didn't have the resources to properly test replacement parts.

[Gary C]

Sporky said:

I like a good manual in a car that won't spend much time in traffic - I honestly do get it.

But I think there are a lot more people who say it matters than there are people willing to back that up with a purchase - especially a new purchase. Still, this one's been done to death - I'll accept that I do tend to overstate the strength of my feelings on the subject and suggest we let it rest for a while.

(also do try the Alpine if you haven't, it's really very, very good indeed)

And I do get what your saying

I will try the Alpine (though the wife would kill me for having two 'sports' cars).

[Sporky]

Gary C said:

I will try the Alpine (though the wife would kill me for having two 'sports' cars).

Well, you said something like "fun everyday car" - I have a Golf and the Alpine, and the latter is my everyday car - the Golf is just for weekends when I need to transport dogs and/or stuff.

[otolith]

kambites said:

malaccamax said:

And that probably indicates a failing within Lotus, that they haven't switched suppliers or asked them to update parts as part of cost exercises.

Or they didn't have the resources to properly test replacement parts.

Or the volumes to justify the cost.

[blueg33]

DonkeyApple said:

blueg33 said:

The parts bin image is pretty dated as a concept surely?

Pretty much every low volume car share many components with high volume cars. Eg Lambo's have audi logo's on all sorts of bits, a Bentley has VW bits (the SUV is basically a Q8), , a Rolls has BMW bits, a Cayenne is a VW in a dress, my Ferrari has some Fiat bits.

Parts bin snobbishness is as stupid as GRP snobbishness. I'd rather have a specialist car where they have focused on the things that makes it special, rather than spending the budget designing indicator stalks and pollen filters.

This is correct. Today not only is everyone downsizing towards 4 pots but they're also engine sharing and button sharing. The generic market has very much come to the specialist builders such as Lotus in this regard. Likewise GRP has long since been rebranded as space age, hi tech, composite and now makes punters priapismic. But, that doesn't mean it's no longer important to get it right, nor does it mean that some brands have a need to break that legacy.

Marques such as Lotus are seen as plastic, parts bins toys for people who can't afford a Porsche. These people are fools but that doesn't mean you can ignore them because not only are they legion but they are the people who will go heavily into debt to rent chattels that they perceive to make them less utterly irrelevant and unimportant than they are.

There are also the value perception issues. It's important that if parts are going to be recognised they can't be used to knock the product by the inevitable detractors. Lotus need to be smart in this regard as they are on the back foot.

There are various examples of sharing which jar and risk sales.

The Jag switchgear in the OI Astons was a bit off putting at the time given the price and brand disparity at work. The BMW auto selector in the new Morgan doesn't look right. The Punto switchgear in the 360 really was taking the piss. The first thing you notice in the DBX is your Uber driver's gear selector, that grates a little due to the price being asked. Likewise the Bentayga has the price of a bespoke vehicle designed by Bentley for Bentley customers but it's actually a generic, mass produced VW shell that Bentley fudge veneers onto.

None of these things are terrible or show stoppers but they all undo the feeling of value that you expect to be rewarded with parting with your money for a high end product.

Lotus is moving to a new set of price points, their intent is to break the £100k barrier. The buyer at these new levels are much less tolerant and Lotus' history means they can't get away with 'adding cheapness' like Ferrari can. They won't be forgiven and it will be used to beat them with.

So these things are stupid, they are snobbish and the world has moved to sharing more than ever before but that doesn't mean this aspect isn't hugely important because for Lotus it most definitely is. Whose switchgear they use is vital to get right.

I don't disagree, which is why they have to get the marketing right.

We have a new Volvo, its a very nice place to sit, the switch gear is excellent, it feels high quality. Those things will be fine in a Lotus, IMO they are better than the ones in a current > £100k Porsche etc

[DonkeyApple]

NDNDNDND said:

Dany Bahar, is that you?

It can't be as like the 8bn other people on the planet, I also, had never heard of Swizz Beatz or ever considered Brian 'Badger Botherer' May to be a cool dude to associate anything other than a shampoo brand with.

Right idea but executed in a style that would have made Khan think it wasn't particularly classy.

[otolith]

DonkeyApple said:

NDNDNDND said:

Dany Bahar, is that you?

It can't be as like the 8bn other people on the planet, I also, had never heard of Swizz Beatz or ever considered Brian 'Badger Botherer' May to be a cool dude to associate anything other than a shampoo brand with.

Right idea but executed in a style that would have made Khan think it wasn't particularly classy.

If you recruit a man who made his name marketing Ferrari branded tat to chavs, what's to be expected?

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

Looks like they are using Volvo/Geely kit - you can see what looks to be the same steering wheel (albeit differently trimmed) and digital dash from the teaser shots in various Lynk & Co and Volvo products.

That should be ok. In developed markets only housewives and old men will recognise the switches.

[otolith]

DonkeyApple said:

otolith said:

Looks like they are using Volvo/Geely kit - you can see what looks to be the same steering wheel (albeit differently trimmed) and digital dash from the teaser shots in various Lynk & Co and Volvo products.

That should be ok. In developed markets only housewives and old men will recognise the switches.

Wrap it in Alcantara or face it in aluminium or piano black plastic, nobody will be any the wiser.

The reviews of the Lynk & Co interiors have been pretty positive, though obviously there are price point expectations.

[DonkeyApple]

blueg33 said:

I don't disagree, which is why they have to get the marketing right.

We have a new Volvo, its a very nice place to sit, the switch gear is excellent, it feels high quality. Those things will be fine in a Lotus, IMO they are better than the ones in a current > £100k Porsche etc

I think modern Volvos have about the most civilised interiors of all the sort of mid level cars. There's a subtlety to them that the Germans can only dream of and the switchgear has a good solid feel to it.

If that's the bin that Lotus raid that that feels to be about right. If you're selling £60-£120k frivolous cara then you really don't want people seeing stuff from their mother's £20k shopping boxes.

[Tuna]

otolith said:

If you recruit a man who made his name marketing Ferrari branded tat to chavs, what's to be expected?

Whilst Bahar was an undoubted disaster, I have my suspicions that his actual strategy was to push things so far that the owners would be forced to put the kind of money Geely are spending into the company. The five car lineup required that the financial backers commit to making it happen - and whilst the Swizz Beats stuff was cringeworthy, the thing that actually killed the programme was that Proton wasn't Geely.

TBH with all the discussions about the Emira, it seems to me that Lotus more than anything need to have a properly differentiated multi car line-up. Firstly to avoid being susceptible to fads and fashion, but also to be able to appeal to the wide range of ages and demographics that Lotus owners (existing and potential) have here. An upmarket weekend blaster, a continent swallowing GT, a high end sports car, an SUV. If they repeat the Evora's mistake of trying to take on the full Porsche range with a single vehicle, the Emira will end up falling between the stools.

[blueg33]

Tuna said:

If they repeat the Evora's mistake of trying to take on the full Porsche range with a single vehicle, the Emira will end up falling between the stools.

So it will fall between st cars

That might be a good thing

[Olivera]

Tuna said:

Whilst Bahar was an undoubted disaster, I have my suspicions that his actual strategy was to push things so far that the owners would be forced to put the kind of money Geely are spending into the company. The five car lineup required that the financial backers commit to making it happen - and whilst the Swizz Beats stuff was cringeworthy, the thing that actually killed the programme was that Proton wasn't Geely.

Um IIRC at the height of the Bahar era they were blowing £100m per year on the new 5 car roadmap, so for a medium sized company they certainly didn't lack investment (from Proton).

[DonkeyApple]

blueg33 said:

Tuna said:

If they repeat the Evora's mistake of trying to take on the full Porsche range with a single vehicle, the Emira will end up falling between the stools.

So it will fall between st cars

That might be a good thing

You'd need an Elise to park there though.

[Tuna]

Olivera said:

Um IIRC at the height of the Bahar era they were blowing £100m per year on the new 5 car roadmap, so for a medium sized company they certainly didn't lack investment (from Proton).

I think (outside observer) that Proton's support was piecemeal and heavily dependent on "more magic happening", rather than Geely's approach which appears (again, outside observer) to have been to approve a long term spending plan to get to an agreed destination.

The difference being that under Geely, Lotus are spending up front to get themselves in a position to build a mass(ish) market car range. Under Proton it was a question of trying to build everything up one sale at a time, whilst dealing with a lot of legacy issues.

[Tuna]

DonkeyApple said:

You'd need an Elise to park there though.

Might clip their wing mirrors, but I can fit through. Bloody lane hogs.

[otolith]

Tuna said:

Whilst Bahar was an undoubted disaster, I have my suspicions that his actual strategy was to push things so far that the owners would be forced to put the kind of money Geely are spending into the company. The five car lineup required that the financial backers commit to making it happen - and whilst the Swizz Beats stuff was cringeworthy, the thing that actually killed the programme was that Proton wasn't Geely.

TBH with all the discussions about the Emira, it seems to me that Lotus more than anything need to have a properly differentiated multi car line-up. Firstly to avoid being susceptible to fads and fashion, but also to be able to appeal to the wide range of ages and demographics that Lotus owners (existing and potential) have here. An upmarket weekend blaster, a continent swallowing GT, a high end sports car, an SUV. If they repeat the Evora's mistake of trying to take on the full Porsche range with a single vehicle, the Emira will end up falling between the stools.

The Emira and Evija are just the opening salvo. The rest of the range is on its way, including mummywagons.

[Tuna]

otolith said:

The Emira and Evija are just the opening salvo. The rest of the range is on its way, including mummywagons.

I've been struggling with their announcements - on the one hand, sure, SUV is coming; on the other hand the Emira will be available in a 'range of specs' which makes it sound like they're trying to replace the entire existing line up (minimal though it is) with one car.