Are Universities now just woke nurseries.

[brake fader]

It seems since Blair said Education x 3 we have had a watered down system producing nothing but snowkflakes and activists .

[bristolracer]

Always been the same.
Universities and the students Union have always whinged about the grown up world

[ATG]

brake fader said:

It seems since Blair said Education x 3 we have had a watered down system producing nothing but snowkflakes and activists .

Back on planet Earth, our universities have also produced lots of engineers, teachers, nurses, lawyers, journos, accountants, etc, etc, and loads of research. So the answer to your question is no, they're not just woke nurseries, they're educational and research institutions just like they've always been.

[Exige77]

bristolracer said:

Always been the same.
Universities and the students Union have always whinged about the grown up world

Until they grow up themselves and see what bks they where spouting.

[JeffreyD]

I yearn for the days of political correctness going mad.

[Countdown]

ATG said:

brake fader said:

It seems since Blair said Education x 3 we have had a watered down system producing nothing but snowkflakes and activists .

Back on planet Earth, our universities have also produced lots of engineers, teachers, nurses, lawyers, journos, accountants, etc, etc, and loads of research. So the answer to your question is no, they're not just woke nurseries, they're educational and research institutions just like they've always been.

We have to remember - the way kids turn out is the fault of lefties - whether that's Lefties in schools, colleges, or Universities. It's never the parent's fault.....

ETA and of course all this started in 1997 (along with everything else that's wrong with what was once proudly called GREAT Britain). prior to that Universities were full of "Centre, centre-right at a push" students......

[Polite M135 driver]

No, I don’t think so, i gave someone 2/20 the other month.

Ok, serious answer:

Universities are a places where:

i) leading thinkers in society explore new ideas and push the boundaries of what is known, and how we think. They are places where ideas are imagined, tried out, destroyed, re-forged, strengthened, and, for the very best, adopted.

ii) places where (generally) bright young people go at a point early in their adult lives to learn about the best, and most valuable thoughts and knowledge that humans have developed over the past 10,000 odd years.

What all of this means is: universities are places for intellectual experimentation. You have experts thinking and writing about new thoughts, and trying them out. You also have young people trying out established ideas and philosophies for themselves for the first time. Much of this requires people to explore uncomfortable thoughts or systems of thinking, too.

All of this is to say: of course some bloody stupid ideas, or good ideas taken too far, or actually purely bad ideas that are nevertheless engaged with to pick them apart end up flying around within universities.

So: the extreme (to you) thoughts or ideas or politics that you hear about at universities, or coming out of universities is OK. Don’t worry about it. It’s not going to threaten you. It’s just people playing around with ideas and seeing what happens. Without this sort of process, we wouldn’t have emancipation, (something closer to) gender quality, racial equality, maths, the internet, any philosophy, etc. etc. None of that is to mention science or technology or medicine, where similarly (to the inducted and educated in the field) controversial ideas are also bandied around.

You might not be able to always see how, but good things come of this process, in the long run.

Edited by Polite M135 driver on Friday 11th June 10:48

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo]

Despite the loudest students giving the impression that they’re all useless tts, the reality is that it’s a gobby minority who attract media attention and promotion for some reason. The majority are there to get a piece of paper and/or have fun with friends.

[abzmike]

brake fader said:

It seems since Blair said Education x 3 we have had a watered down system producing nothing but snowkflakes and activists .

The Daily Mail and right wing media love to highlight the woke-ness - Maybe you'll be happier in the comments section there.

Meanwhile thousands of well qualified, and reasonably well balanced young people leave universities each year, many of them burdened with conisderable levels of debt incurred as they take a risk to start their careers off with the best chance. To assert that the system produces 'nothing but snowflakes and activists' is a bit of an insult to them.

[ReallyReallyGood]

Polite M135 driver said:

No, I don’t think so, i gave someone 2/20 the other month.

Ok, serious answer:

Universities are a places where:

i) leading thinkers in society explore new ideas and push the boundaries of what is known, and how we think. They are places where ideas are imagined, tried out, destroyed, re-forged, strengthened, and, for the very best, adopted.

ii) places where (generally) bright young people go at a point early in their adult lives to learn about the best, and most valuable thoughts and knowledge that humans have developed over the past 10,000 odd years.

What all of this means is: universities are places for intellectual experimentation. You have experts thinking and writing about new thoughts, and trying them out. You also have young people trying out established ideas and philosophies for themselves for the first time. Much of this requires people to explore uncomfortable thoughts or systems of thinking, too.

All of this is to say: of course some bloody stupid ideas, or good ideas taken too far, or actually purely bad ideas that are nevertheless engaged with to pick them apart end up flying around within universities.

So: the extreme (to you) thoughts or ideas or politics that you hear about at universities, or coming out of universities is OK. Don’t worry about it. It’s not going to threaten you. It’s just people playing around with ideas and seeing what happens. Without this sort of process, we wouldn’t have emancipation, (something closer to) gender quality, racial equality, maths, the internet, any philosophy, etc. etc. None of that is to mention science or technology or medicine, where similarly (to the inducted and educated in the field) controversial ideas are also bandied around.

You might not be able to always see how, but good things come of this process, in the long run.

Edited by Polite M135 driver on Friday 11th June 10:48

I think that used to be true. These days if they don't like the sound of you, you get de-platformed.

[Sheets Tabuer]

Polite M135 driver said:

i) leading thinkers in society explore new ideas and push the boundaries of what is know, and how we think. They are places where ideas are imagined, tried out, destroyed, re-forged, strengthened, and, for the very best, adopted.

So: the extreme (to you) thoughts or ideas or politics that you hear about at universities, or coming out of universities is OK. Don’t worry about it. It’s not going to threaten you. It’s just people playing around with ideas and seeing what happens. Without this sort of process, we wouldn’t have emancipation, (something closer to) gender quality, racial equality, maths, the internet, any philosophy, etc. etc.

You might not be able to always see how, but good things come of this process, in the long run.

snipped

The problem is the young learn a little then think they know a lot.

That some information they have just learnt is new knowledge to the rest of the human race and they must spread it far and wide, with age comes the wisdom that the rest of the population already knew it they just couldn't give a fk.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

Polite M135 driver said:

No, I don’t think so, i gave someone 2/20 the other month.

Ok, serious answer:

Universities are a places where:

i) leading thinkers in society explore new ideas and push the boundaries of what is known, and how we think. They are places where ideas are imagined, tried out, destroyed, re-forged, strengthened, and, for the very best, adopted.

ii) places where (generally) bright young people go at a point early in their adult lives to learn about the best, and most valuable thoughts and knowledge that humans have developed over the past 10,000 odd years.

What all of this means is: universities are places for intellectual experimentation. You have experts thinking and writing about new thoughts, and trying them out. You also have young people trying out established ideas and philosophies for themselves for the first time. Much of this requires people to explore uncomfortable thoughts or systems of thinking, too.

All of this is to say: of course some bloody stupid ideas, or good ideas taken too far, or actually purely bad ideas that are nevertheless engaged with to pick them apart end up flying around within universities.

So: the extreme (to you) thoughts or ideas or politics that you hear about at universities, or coming out of universities is OK. Don’t worry about it. It’s not going to threaten you. It’s just people playing around with ideas and seeing what happens. Without this sort of process, we wouldn’t have emancipation, (something closer to) gender quality, racial equality, maths, the internet, any philosophy, etc. etc. None of that is to mention science or technology or medicine, where similarly (to the inducted and educated in the field) controversial ideas are also bandied around.

You might not be able to always see how, but good things come of this process, in the long run.

Edited by Polite M135 driver on Friday 11th June 10:48

I love the optimism. In reality however all but the very best university’s are cynical businesses cashing in on the belief of a better life for those that attend and portraying an image of party time for the rest. The reality is that it is quite different to how it was, with targets and attendance thresholds making it way less enlightened than they once were

[Polite M135 driver]

ReallyReallyGood said:

I think that used to be true. These days if they don't like the sound of you, you get de-platformed.

This is a common claim of people on the political right at the moment, but it basically never happens. In fact, the latest government policy around this was based on and indeed the government cited a report from a think tank that cited an example - in fact, their main example and I think also perhaps even the only example they had - of deplatforming that actually never even happened. The report claimed that Germaine Greer was deplatformed at (I think) Swansea university. The talk actually went ahead.

[Polite M135 driver]

Sheets Tabuer said:

snipped

The problem is the young learn a little then think they know a lot.

That some information they have just learnt is new knowledge to the rest of the human race and they must spread it far and wide, with age comes the wisdom that the rest of the population already knew it they just couldn't give a fk.

I know plenty of people like this, though. In fact I often do it myself. A charitable excuse is that these people are excited and interested in their new knowledge and want to share it with people.

Maybe it’s related to the common fallacy of overestimating ones degree of expertise, which seems deep rooted in human psychology. Dare I say it, pistonheads might also be a ‘place’ where people with some amount of expertise frequently misjudge just quite how far that expertise extends, and thus become unreasonably certain of things that could just maybe be more complicated, or nuanced, than they think?

Perhaps best to stop this radical thought here, don’t want to bring the whole forum down.

[Claptonian]

brake fader said:

It seems since Blair said Education x 3 we have had a watered down system producing nothing but snowkflakes and activists .

The likes of ATG and Polite M135 driver have given good answers already, but you would really benefit from expanding your horizons somewhat. The above sounds like the rantings of a disgruntled and spectacularly poorly read old bloke, bemoaning the youth of today, exactly as people exactly like you have been doing for all of time. What a cliche.

[ReallyReallyGood]

Polite M135 driver said:

This is a common claim of people on the political right at the moment, but it basically never happens. In fact, the latest government policy around this was based on and indeed the government cited a report from a think tank that cited an example - in fact, their main example and I think also perhaps even the only example they had - of deplatforming that actually never even happened. The report claimed that Germaine Greer was deplatformed at (I think) Swansea university. The talk actually went ahead.

Then why was this ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57076093) needed?

[Liokault]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

Polite M135 driver said:

No, I don’t think so, i gave someone 2/20 the other month.

Ok, serious answer:

Universities are a places where:

i) leading thinkers in society explore new ideas and push the boundaries of what is known, and how we think. They are places where ideas are imagined, tried out, destroyed, re-forged, strengthened, and, for the very best, adopted.

ii) places where (generally) bright young people go at a point early in their adult lives to learn about the best, and most valuable thoughts and knowledge that humans have developed over the past 10,000 odd years.

What all of this means is: universities are places for intellectual experimentation. You have experts thinking and writing about new thoughts, and trying them out. You also have young people trying out established ideas and philosophies for themselves for the first time. Much of this requires people to explore uncomfortable thoughts or systems of thinking, too.

All of this is to say: of course some bloody stupid ideas, or good ideas taken too far, or actually purely bad ideas that are nevertheless engaged with to pick them apart end up flying around within universities.

So: the extreme (to you) thoughts or ideas or politics that you hear about at universities, or coming out of universities is OK. Don’t worry about it. It’s not going to threaten you. It’s just people playing around with ideas and seeing what happens. Without this sort of process, we wouldn’t have emancipation, (something closer to) gender quality, racial equality, maths, the internet, any philosophy, etc. etc. None of that is to mention science or technology or medicine, where similarly (to the inducted and educated in the field) controversial ideas are also bandied around.

You might not be able to always see how, but good things come of this process, in the long run.

Edited by Polite M135 driver on Friday 11th June 10:48

I love the optimism. In reality however all but the very best university’s are cynical businesses cashing in on the belief of a better life for those that attend and portraying an image of party time for the rest. The reality is that it is quite different to how it was, with targets and attendance thresholds making it way less enlightened than they once were

Indeed, let’s see a society set up in any English university to explore or push the boundaries of ideas such as: “Colonialism and its benefits”, or “Slavery, it was ok in the 1800s”. Let’s try “Gaza and why the Jewish should settle it”.

Let’s see how long until a safe space is required.

Left leaning ideas = ok, right leaning ideas = micro aggressions.

[Pothole]

brake fader said:

It seems since Blair said Education x 3 we have had a watered down system producing nothing but snowkflakes and activists .

Utter tosh.

[frisbee]

BabySharkDooDooDooDooDooDoo said:

Despite the loudest students giving the impression that they’re all useless tts, the reality is that it’s a gobby minority who attract media attention and promotion for some reason. The majority are there to get a piece of paper and/or have fun with friends.

Yep, for 99% of students, the student union is a cheap bar.

[Type R Tom]

I don't know if this is true or just right wing propaganda but I do have concerns about things like white supremacy / privilege, critical race theory, patriarchy, some transgender issues etc being taught as fact instead of debated as an opinion.