RE: Tesla confirms Model S Plaid performance

[J4CKO]

Is this as fast as a superbike now ?

[anonymous-user]

On the one hand if this thing can lap Laguna in the same time as the development car 1:30ish? I can't not be impressed, that's an insane time; 2 seconds faster than the 2016 record holding Viper ACR. On the other hand I drove an S P100D and it was horrible. Fast yes and I even think quite good looking but it feels like you sit on it in a nasty pod rather than in it and the controls feel like they're connected to nothing. Acceleration aside it was no fun at all and what feedback the car does give you is just the nasty lightness of impending understeer which never really materialises but still just feels kak. To put in those kind of lap times this new car must give the driver some more feedback, I assume, or maybe it just relies on brute force... I'd love to give it a go but if I wanted to go this fast in a 4 door EV I'm almost certain my money would be on a Taycan Turbo S.

[anonymous-user]

J4CKO said:

Is this as fast as a superbike now ?

0-60 and 1/4 mile are way quicker than a bike...

[NDNDNDND]

fblm said:

On the one hand if this thing can lap Laguna in the same time as the development car 1:30ish? I can't not be impressed, that's an insane time; 2 seconds faster than the 2016 record holding Viper ACR. On the other hand I drove an S P100D and it was horrible. Fast yes and I even think quite good looking but it feels like you sit on it in a nasty pod rather than in it and the controls feel like they're connected to nothing. Acceleration aside it was no fun at all and what feedback the car does give you is just the nasty lightness of impending understeer which never really materialises but still just feels kak. To put in those kind of lap times this new car must give the driver some more feedback, I assume, or maybe it just relies on brute force... I'd love to give it a go but if I wanted to go this fast in a 4 door EV I'm almost certain my money would be on a Taycan Turbo S.

Oh, stop being such a luddite!

[off_again]

GT911 said:

The kicking and squealing from the Luddites on this thread is hilarious. It seems it's not possible to make an EV a good handling car, apparently it's only possible with a large lump of iron at one end of the chassis, a unique law of physics, or something.

I am really interested to see what is coming and where the EV market is moving. Porsche have proven that you can get a fantastic balance of comfort, performance and handling with an EV and they have only just started! Telsa have been making good cars for a number of years too, but having driven a few, I wouldnt call them 'great handling' though.

And then there is the electronics and programming that can be done - we are only scratching the surface here too and I cant wait to see what the engineers can do. However, I keep going back to a couple of points though. The last Model S top-of-the-range was not a $120k car. Yes, it was fast and it actually rode really well. But its handling was average and the interior was not that of an equivalent manufacturer at the same price. You are paying for the batteries of course.

If you think its worth $130k, great, go for it. Personally, even for the performance, I dont think its worth the money. I am happy to sacrifice some of the performance for a nicer interior, sharper handling etc etc. But like everything else, its down to personal taste. Some people want the ultimate in handling, feel and precision. Others just want quiet with fantastic seats. No one is right or wrong - I just think that the Model S Plaid is in a weird place; superbike humbling acceleration, an odd interior and expensive. It does the performance well, but not so sure about the other bits.

[off_again]

J4CKO said:

Is this as fast as a superbike now ?

Probably, but a superbike is a hell of a lot more thrilling to ride! And there is a real challenge to get them off the line, when not using the very latest launch control systems. The risk of death is much higher on a superbike than launching a Tesla, and that certainly gets your heart going.

[clacs2]

Jon_S_Rally said:

Different people want different things. Straight-line acceleration is only one element of a car and, for many driving enthusiasts, not actually high up the list of priorities.

Indeed. I have a bike that will clear 60 in three seconds, however, so will all of its rivals, and, though this may sound mad, if you ride it to work every day you actually get used to the performance.

The upshot is that the performance is a given, it's everything else that makes it a great bike.

[Burwood]

off_again said:

J4CKO said:

Is this as fast as a superbike now ?

Probably, but a superbike is a hell of a lot more thrilling to ride! And there is a real challenge to get them off the line, when not using the very latest launch control systems. The risk of death is much higher on a superbike than launching a Tesla, and that certainly gets your heart going.

AWD vs 1WD on a bike. 0-60 on bikes is not a good measure. Granted this car is very quick . 60-125, a super bike like a BMW RR would comfortably spank it. The tesla is 440hp/tonne. Plenty of bikes are 1,000 hppt and the Kawasaki H2 is closer to 1500. Just say'n

[sidesauce]

off_again said:

The risk of death is much higher on a superbike than launching a Tesla, and that certainly gets your heart going.

True. Which is why I will never have anything to do with motorcycles as I've seen one too many friends lose their lives whilst riding them and trust me, how they ended up is not something I would never again want to see... At all.

To each their own though.

[off_again]

Burwood said:

AWD vs 1WD on a bike. 0-60 on bikes is not a good measure. Granted this car is very quick . 60-125, a super bike like a BMW RR would comfortably spank it. The tesla is 440hp/tonne. Plenty of bikes are 1,000 hppt and the Kawasaki H2 is closer to 1500. Just say'n

Please don’t talk like that…. Now I have to go visit Bike Trader and lust…..



And while my Ducati is in for its big service, I might have to take a few test rides to figure out what my next one will be. I am thinking that 150bhp is the minimum now…..

[Mouse Rat]

Credit where it's due, this is very impressive and well done Tesla.
The S is a good looking car and I always admire them. I've never driven one, only the Model 3P which was impressive but oddly proportioned and rubbish at the same time.

I passed an S the other day. Beautiful colour but the boot panel gaps were uneven and stood out like a sore thumb. While I wouldn't expect Tesla to have the finish of Mercedes or even Mazda. This would irk me on an expensive car.

[Phil300plus]

A much earlier post asked 'how many times can you do 0-60 in 1.99' so here's a real world example for a Model 3 Performance:

Leave home with an indicated 283 miles range.
Drive 7 miles to meet a friend for a coffee - indicated range 271 miles
Enjoy a coffee and then demonstrate performance of Model 3 P to said friend over 6 miles, 1 mile through town to dual carriageway, full on down the slip, reach 3 figures and back off, 1 mile to off slip, same again in the other direction and back to the coffee shop
Park at coffee shop - indicated range 107 miles
Drive 7 miles home on mainly B roads 'enthusiastically' and switch off - indicated range 71 miles

The stats for the Plaid Performance are shocking, and I've no idea what taking over a second off a sprint time that's already verging on uncomfortable would feel like. Is it useable or useful? For the drag strip / bragging rights / YouTube I guess yes, day to day not really.

[ZX10R NIN]

J4CKO said:

Is this as fast as a superbike now ?

To be honest a lot of cars are quicker 0-60 than a 1000cc Sportsbike, admittedly most have AWD & aggressive launch controls, bikes are harder to get (as you turn the electronics off as they're intrusive) off the line so it's pretty much over for the bike 1/4 mile wise because you're trying to stop the thing from flipping itself over for the first 1/8 of a mile.

BUT in a roll race almost every car loses:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boOnygO-ZWc

The best I got from my tuned BMW (210bhp at the wheel 83 lb/ft)) S1000RR was:

0-60 3.4 seconds

1/4 mile 10.08 seconds 154.4 mph

Manufacturers Official numbers 2018 190bhp S1000RR

0-60 3.1 seconds

1/4 mile 10.1 seconds 151.8 mph

The new M1000RR is even quicker again & will be in the 9's 1/4 mile wise.

Also when going for a 1/4 mile/0-60 time you're launching off 90 of you're 200 section rear tyre as it's egg shaped (unlike car tyres) to help through the corners.

[ZX10R NIN]

Phil300plus said:

A much earlier post asked 'how many times can you do 0-60 in 1.99' so here's a real world example for a Model 3 Performance:

Leave home with an indicated 283 miles range.
Drive 7 miles to meet a friend for a coffee - indicated range 271 miles
Enjoy a coffee and then demonstrate performance of Model 3 P to said friend over 6 miles, 1 mile through town to dual carriageway, full on down the slip, reach 3 figures and back off, 1 mile to off slip, same again in the other direction and back to the coffee shop
Park at coffee shop - indicated range 107 miles
Drive 7 miles home on mainly B roads 'enthusiastically' and switch off - indicated range 71 miles

The stats for the Plaid Performance are shocking, and I've no idea what taking over a second off a sprint time that's already verging on uncomfortable would feel like. Is it useable or useful? For the drag strip / bragging rights / YouTube I guess yes, day to day not really.

So not many then maybe 3 at a push, the times are stunning but I'd want more access to it, it would be a waste of a day going to Santa Pod to only be able to run 2-3 times.

[Burwood]

Burwood said:

AWD vs 1WD on a bike. 0-60 on bikes is not a good measure. Granted this car is very quick . 60-125, a super bike like a BMW RR would comfortably spank it. The tesla is 440hp/tonne. Plenty of bikes are 1,000 hppt and the Kawasaki H2 is closer to 1500. Just say'n

Years ago my brother went into a bike shop to 'buy some bike gloves' his wife is outside as she hates bikes. She sees him high-five the salesman (hmm wtf). He just bought a ZX-14. I jumped on the back once! That thing was fking mental.

[anonymous-user]

Phil300plus said:

A much earlier post asked 'how many times can you do 0-60 in 1.99' so here's a real world example for a Model 3 Performance:

Leave home with an indicated 283 miles range.
Drive 7 miles to meet a friend for a coffee - indicated range 271 miles
Enjoy a coffee and then demonstrate performance of Model 3 P to said friend over 6 miles, 1 mile through town to dual carriageway, full on down the slip, reach 3 figures and back off, 1 mile to off slip, same again in the other direction and back to the coffee shop
Park at coffee shop - indicated range 107 miles
Drive 7 miles home on mainly B roads 'enthusiastically' and switch off - indicated range 71 miles

The stats for the Plaid Performance are shocking, and I've no idea what taking over a second off a sprint time that's already verging on uncomfortable would feel like. Is it useable or useful? For the drag strip / bragging rights / YouTube I guess yes, day to day not really.

Looking at the "Range" is one thing but i can say with absolute clarity, an EV with a 75 kWh battery does not use 2/3rds of it's battery with a few miles of being spanked, especially not on the public road where unless you sit at VMAX you are not using full power!

Let say you manage an average speed of 100 mph then 6 miles takes 216 seconds, so to use 50 kWh in that time is an average power of 833 kW.

Given that a Telsa makes 377 kW at peak, i think we can safely say this is not possible! (and off course, would assume you are using that power 100% o the time without any braking or regen!

IME, spanking an EV as hard as is possible on the public road, with cheeky speeds deep into 3 figures, a consumption figure of about 1.5 ml/kWh is fairly typical, so you'd use 9kWh over your 6 mile journey, which is actually the same as an ICE doing about 28 mpg in terms of energy use

If your battery was full at your starting point (75 kWH and a range of 283ml) that's a more usual consumption of 3.77 ml/kWh (actually pretty good for a TM3 perf) then you'd expect your range to recover to around 240 miles after you stop spanking it........

[silentbrown]

ZX10R NIN said:

So not many then maybe 3 at a push, the times are stunning but I'd want more access to it, it would be a waste of a day going to Santa Pod to only be able to run 2-3 times.

Do the maths. Battery capacity isn't disclosed, but expected to be about 120KWh

If you're running 10 second 1/4 miles at full throttle, that's 750KW for 10 seconds - or just over 2KWh (7500 KWs/ 3600s). Ignoring pootling back to the start and regenerative braking, you're good for 50+ runs.

Or, looking at it another way, it's possible to run down the battery entirely in 15 miles...

I've no idea what typical 10 second petrol car uses, but top fuel dragsters can use 5 gallons per 1/4 mile...

Edited by silentbrown on Saturday 12th June 11:47

[AshD]

I do have a suspicion that a proportion of the EV detractors here haven’t driven one.

I used to have a 2014 RWD P85. Reasonably quick in a straight line, but would limit power quite quickly and did handle like a big heavy boat.

I’ve also driven a P90D and more recent P100DL. Much better put together, but still a big heavy boat and power restriction again.

I now have a P3D. For the money its well enough put together, its plenty quick enough, not exactly the lightest car at about 1800kg, but the handling is way, way better. Admittedly not as good as a 997 / Elise / Esprit that i have owned, but much better than the naysayers who haven’t driven one will argue. Plus, no power restrictions.

So my view is that if they’ve resolved the need to cut power and improved the ride and handling to similar levels as the 3, this will be a good car.

[Terminator X]

Burwood said:

off_again said:

J4CKO said:

Is this as fast as a superbike now ?

Probably, but a superbike is a hell of a lot more thrilling to ride! And there is a real challenge to get them off the line, when not using the very latest launch control systems. The risk of death is much higher on a superbike than launching a Tesla, and that certainly gets your heart going.

AWD vs 1WD on a bike. 0-60 on bikes is not a good measure. Granted this car is very quick . 60-125, a super bike like a BMW RR would comfortably spank it. The tesla is 440hp/tonne. Plenty of bikes are 1,000 hppt and the Kawasaki H2 is closer to 1500. Just say'n

QM should be a good measure then so what do the superbikes do it in?

TX.

[Burwood]

Terminator X said:

Burwood said:

off_again said:

J4CKO said:

Is this as fast as a superbike now ?

Probably, but a superbike is a hell of a lot more thrilling to ride! And there is a real challenge to get them off the line, when not using the very latest launch control systems. The risk of death is much higher on a superbike than launching a Tesla, and that certainly gets your heart going.

AWD vs 1WD on a bike. 0-60 on bikes is not a good measure. Granted this car is very quick . 60-125, a super bike like a BMW RR would comfortably spank it. The tesla is 440hp/tonne. Plenty of bikes are 1,000 hppt and the Kawasaki H2 is closer to 1500. Just say'n

QM should be a good measure then so what do the superbikes do it in?

TX.

The example I gave (BMW) is exactly the same, low 9s. 60-125 in 4 which the Tesla would not match albeit I don't have the figs