RE: Tesla confirms Model S Plaid performance

[Terminator X]

Max_Torque said:

Phil300plus said:

A much earlier post asked 'how many times can you do 0-60 in 1.99' so here's a real world example for a Model 3 Performance:

Leave home with an indicated 283 miles range.
Drive 7 miles to meet a friend for a coffee - indicated range 271 miles
Enjoy a coffee and then demonstrate performance of Model 3 P to said friend over 6 miles, 1 mile through town to dual carriageway, full on down the slip, reach 3 figures and back off, 1 mile to off slip, same again in the other direction and back to the coffee shop
Park at coffee shop - indicated range 107 miles
Drive 7 miles home on mainly B roads 'enthusiastically' and switch off - indicated range 71 miles

The stats for the Plaid Performance are shocking, and I've no idea what taking over a second off a sprint time that's already verging on uncomfortable would feel like. Is it useable or useful? For the drag strip / bragging rights / YouTube I guess yes, day to day not really.

Looking at the "Range" is one thing but i can say with absolute clarity, an EV with a 75 kWh battery does not use 2/3rds of it's battery with a few miles of being spanked, especially not on the public road where unless you sit at VMAX you are not using full power!

Let say you manage an average speed of 100 mph then 6 miles takes 216 seconds, so to use 50 kWh in that time is an average power of 833 kW.

Given that a Telsa makes 377 kW at peak, i think we can safely say this is not possible! (and off course, would assume you are using that power 100% o the time without any braking or regen!

IME, spanking an EV as hard as is possible on the public road, with cheeky speeds deep into 3 figures, a consumption figure of about 1.5 ml/kWh is fairly typical, so you'd use 9kWh over your 6 mile journey, which is actually the same as an ICE doing about 28 mpg in terms of energy use

If your battery was full at your starting point (75 kWH and a range of 283ml) that's a more usual consumption of 3.77 ml/kWh (actually pretty good for a TM3 perf) then you'd expect your range to recover to around 240 miles after you stop spanking it........

Did you not see that he said "real world" or are you disagreeing with the real world?

TX.

[silentbrown]

Terminator X said:

Did you not see that he said "real world" or are you disagreeing with the real world?

Basic maths, physics and common sense vs. one anecdote...

The "range remaining" is based on your current driving style. Can you switch to displaying a battery percentage or KWh remaining?

[Jon_S_Rally]

otolith said:

Jon_S_Rally said:

otolith said:

Why do you feel the need to point this out about the Tesla and Rimac, but not the M5 or Corvette?

I've said it about plenty of ICE cars. I got rid of my Golf R and replaced it with a Megane 265 for the same reason. It's not an issue exclusive to EVs, but it is a bigger issue with them in some respects, because they have lost an important dimension (in my view) by losing the IC engine.

It's important or it isn't. They're pointlessly fast or they're not.

I bet that if EVs were still slower than ICEs they would be being battered with that stick and called "milkfloats".

You said this about a large automatic saloon which hits 60 in 3 seconds.

Jon_S_Rally said:

I'm a bit torn on this one. The price is obscene, and I really don't understand why a track-focused M5 would make sense to anyone (apart from a 'ring taxi company) but, at the same time, it's hard not to like it in a way. It's totally ridiculous, so it deserves applause for that, especially when cars are becoming increasingly sanitised.

Sadly, as the article says, I suspect it's come along so soon into the current M5's lifecycle because, in a few years, such cars are going to be increasingly frowned upon. It definitely feels like the end is in sight for this sort of thing, which is a real shame.

I don't really know what point you're trying to make?

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

I think people are kind of getting too much into the "roll out" thing. Yes, it's kind of lying, but either way, it's still absolutely mentally quick and quicker than any production ICE car (I think?).

[cannondaleallthe way]

Think people relate a ev to a normal car it’s totally different in the way it puts the power down, no big boost between gears.
It’s a inverter just smooth delivery with nothing to think about other than pointing it in the direction you want to go 4 wheel drive and it’s heavy so it sticks to the road.
Have a model 3 sud 5 seconds and it’s just a joy to drive fast.
But you are out of step with other cars on the road as it’s instant power.

[anonymous-user]

cannondaleallthe way said:

Think people relate a ev to a normal car it’s totally different in the way it puts the power down, no big boost between gears.
It’s a inverter just smooth delivery with nothing to think about other than pointing it in the direction you want to go 4 wheel drive and it’s heavy so it sticks to the road.
Have a model 3 sud 5 seconds and it’s just a joy to drive fast.
But you are out of step with other cars on the road as it’s instant power.

Something I don't really understand is that I've never, and I really mean never, seen any Tesla being driven at anything other than a snails pace on the road. When I have had one I've done full bore standing starts all the time because you can do it so discretely, and otherwise I drove it like any other powerful saloon, but they're always mixing it with the Honda Jazz's in L1 or tootling along at 45 in a 60 when I see them!

[cannondaleallthe way]

I pass loads driven at 60 on the motorway and don’t get it I get 340 range real world driving at speed 240 I have the range so have some fun.
And they are fun and it’s addictive the power you have exiting a corner is unreal and so controlled even in the wet, I have done 11000 miles in mine in 3 months been to the south coast from Leicestershire twice but mainly 250 mile round trips and finding fast chargers not a problem.

[98elise]

Terminator X said:

Max_Torque said:

Phil300plus said:

A much earlier post asked 'how many times can you do 0-60 in 1.99' so here's a real world example for a Model 3 Performance:

Leave home with an indicated 283 miles range.
Drive 7 miles to meet a friend for a coffee - indicated range 271 miles
Enjoy a coffee and then demonstrate performance of Model 3 P to said friend over 6 miles, 1 mile through town to dual carriageway, full on down the slip, reach 3 figures and back off, 1 mile to off slip, same again in the other direction and back to the coffee shop
Park at coffee shop - indicated range 107 miles
Drive 7 miles home on mainly B roads 'enthusiastically' and switch off - indicated range 71 miles

The stats for the Plaid Performance are shocking, and I've no idea what taking over a second off a sprint time that's already verging on uncomfortable would feel like. Is it useable or useful? For the drag strip / bragging rights / YouTube I guess yes, day to day not really.

Looking at the "Range" is one thing but i can say with absolute clarity, an EV with a 75 kWh battery does not use 2/3rds of it's battery with a few miles of being spanked, especially not on the public road where unless you sit at VMAX you are not using full power!

Let say you manage an average speed of 100 mph then 6 miles takes 216 seconds, so to use 50 kWh in that time is an average power of 833 kW.

Given that a Telsa makes 377 kW at peak, i think we can safely say this is not possible! (and off course, would assume you are using that power 100% o the time without any braking or regen!

IME, spanking an EV as hard as is possible on the public road, with cheeky speeds deep into 3 figures, a consumption figure of about 1.5 ml/kWh is fairly typical, so you'd use 9kWh over your 6 mile journey, which is actually the same as an ICE doing about 28 mpg in terms of energy use

If your battery was full at your starting point (75 kWH and a range of 283ml) that's a more usual consumption of 3.77 ml/kWh (actually pretty good for a TM3 perf) then you'd expect your range to recover to around 240 miles after you stop spanking it........

Did you not see that he said "real world" or are you disagreeing with the real world?

TX.

Physics is the real world.

[98elise]

stickleback123 said:

cannondaleallthe way said:

Think people relate a ev to a normal car it’s totally different in the way it puts the power down, no big boost between gears.
It’s a inverter just smooth delivery with nothing to think about other than pointing it in the direction you want to go 4 wheel drive and it’s heavy so it sticks to the road.
Have a model 3 sud 5 seconds and it’s just a joy to drive fast.
But you are out of step with other cars on the road as it’s instant power.

Something I don't really understand is that I've never, and I really mean never, seen any Tesla being driven at anything other than a snails pace on the road. When I have had one I've done full bore standing starts all the time because you can do it so discretely, and otherwise I drove it like any other powerful saloon, but they're always mixing it with the Honda Jazz's in L1 or tootling along at 45 in a 60 when I see them!

I can't say I've ever seen one being driven at a snails pace. When I see them they just tend to be driven like any other car. Not particularly fast or slow.

[gaseous clay]

Teslas are always driven normally round here. Even my poxy little Ioniq was doing 90 on the DC on Friday as I was trying to see how inefficiently I could get back from work.

[ZX10R NIN]

silentbrown said:

ZX10R NIN said:

So not many then maybe 3 at a push, the times are stunning but I'd want more access to it, it would be a waste of a day going to Santa Pod to only be able to run 2-3 times.

Do the maths. Battery capacity isn't disclosed, but expected to be about 120KWh

If you're running 10 second 1/4 miles at full throttle, that's 750KW for 10 seconds - or just over 2KWh (7500 KWs/ 3600s). Ignoring pootling back to the start and regenerative braking, you're good for 50+ runs.

Or, looking at it another way, it's possible to run down the battery entirely in 15 miles...

I've no idea what typical 10 second petrol car uses, but top fuel dragsters can use 5 gallons per 1/4 mile...

Edited by silentbrown on Saturday 12th June 11:47

I was looking at it from the point of driving to Santa Pod & back (from near Brands Hatch) also going by the post above about how much your range drops when you use the performance, I can't see you getting anywhere near 50+ runs in the real world.

[gaseous clay]

My 350Z got less than 10mpg on a track day. Killed the range.

[Jaroon]

AshD said:

I do have a suspicion that a proportion of the EV detractors here haven’t driven one.

I haven't driven one and would love to, however the infrastructure from high rise flats, on street parking and longer commutes where you may not get home for a few nights etc
etc. There's clearly a market but it's limited and to remove those limitations to make E.Vs a universally useable, convenient and affordable option will be prohibitively expensive and disruptive.

Hybrids that have to run on E.V in urban areas should not have production stopped and for the demographic pure E.V suits, hybrids will benefit from their advancing technologies.

[andy43]

Option 1 - Go Elon
Option 2 - Grrrrr Tesla
EV threads are always very positive or very negative

It’s a ten year old design, the first design from a new manufacturer that had previously made nothing at all, a design that’s not really changed apart from a new interior, a facelifted nose in 2017, and different suspension, motors and batteries. And it’s still relevant, still competitive, still selling, and still giving the legacy manufacturers sleepless nights despite it being put together like a TVR. Quite funny really.

[Zumbruk]

"Best car in the world"?

Nothing wrong with Elon's ego, then.

[silentbrown]

ZX10R NIN said:

I was looking at it from the point of driving to Santa Pod & back (from near Brands Hatch) also going by the post above about how much your range drops when you use the performance, I can't see you getting anywhere near 50+ runs in the real world.

Don't forget they run these at Pike's Peak without needing to recharge halfway up...

With regen and a regular Model S these guys reckon on about 150 1/4 mile runs...


(Adding a 200 mile round trip, with any associated range anxiety about the return leg is a rather different prospect. )

Edited by silentbrown on Saturday 12th June 15:01

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Zumbruk said:

"Best car in the world"?

Nothing wrong with Elon's ego, then.

Indeed. "best" is dependant upon what one wants to achieve. Is it the best in terms of a blend between price, performance and usability? Quite possibly. Is it the best if you're heading on holiday where you plan to tour lots of places? Or if you have a family of 7 and need 7 seats? No. Want the plushest, most luxurious interior? No.

[AshD]

Jaroon said:

AshD said:

I do have a suspicion that a proportion of the EV detractors here haven’t driven one.

I haven't driven one and would love to, however the infrastructure from high rise flats, on street parking and longer commutes where you may not get home for a few nights etc
etc. There's clearly a market but it's limited and to remove those limitations to make E.Vs a universally useable, convenient and affordable option will be prohibitively expensive and disruptive.

Hybrids that have to run on E.V in urban areas should not have production stopped and for the demographic pure E.V suits, hybrids will benefit from their advancing technologies.

Agreed, i am lucky to have a driveway next to the house with a charge point. Many millions don’t have this. Its all about the charging infrastructure, Tesla Superchargers are fantastic, with Instavolt and Ionity doing a reasonable job too. We need loads more chargers at 250kw+ and EV’s that can take that charge rate. My M3P will put on about 150miles in roughly 10mins on a 250kw charger. With plenty more public chargers it will work.

What i don’t understand is why the mainstream housebuilders aren’t all building houses with chargers and similarly flats with allocated parking should all have charging posts put in.

[Zumbruk]

silentbrown said:

Don't forget they run these at Pike's Peak without needing to recharge halfway up...

With regen and a regular Model S these guys reckon on about 150 1/4 mile runs...


(Adding a 200 mile round trip, with any associated range anxiety about the return leg is a rather different prospect. )

Edited by silentbrown on Saturday 12th June 15:01

(1) That doesn't take battery heating into effect.
(2) There isn't enough room at Santa Pod to allow that much regen.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

J4CKO said:

Is this as fast as a superbike now ?

Way faster than a superbike.