RE: Tesla confirms Model S Plaid performance
Discussion
98elise said:
Terminator X said:
Max_Torque said:
Phil300plus said:
A much earlier post asked 'how many times can you do 0-60 in 1.99' so here's a real world example for a Model 3 Performance:
Leave home with an indicated 283 miles range.
Drive 7 miles to meet a friend for a coffee - indicated range 271 miles
Enjoy a coffee and then demonstrate performance of Model 3 P to said friend over 6 miles, 1 mile through town to dual carriageway, full on down the slip, reach 3 figures and back off, 1 mile to off slip, same again in the other direction and back to the coffee shop
Park at coffee shop - indicated range 107 miles
Drive 7 miles home on mainly B roads 'enthusiastically' and switch off - indicated range 71 miles
The stats for the Plaid Performance are shocking, and I've no idea what taking over a second off a sprint time that's already verging on uncomfortable would feel like. Is it useable or useful? For the drag strip / bragging rights / YouTube I guess yes, day to day not really.
Looking at the "Range" is one thing but i can say with absolute clarity, an EV with a 75 kWh battery does not use 2/3rds of it's battery with a few miles of being spanked, especially not on the public road where unless you sit at VMAX you are not using full power!Leave home with an indicated 283 miles range.
Drive 7 miles to meet a friend for a coffee - indicated range 271 miles
Enjoy a coffee and then demonstrate performance of Model 3 P to said friend over 6 miles, 1 mile through town to dual carriageway, full on down the slip, reach 3 figures and back off, 1 mile to off slip, same again in the other direction and back to the coffee shop
Park at coffee shop - indicated range 107 miles
Drive 7 miles home on mainly B roads 'enthusiastically' and switch off - indicated range 71 miles
The stats for the Plaid Performance are shocking, and I've no idea what taking over a second off a sprint time that's already verging on uncomfortable would feel like. Is it useable or useful? For the drag strip / bragging rights / YouTube I guess yes, day to day not really.
Let say you manage an average speed of 100 mph then 6 miles takes 216 seconds, so to use 50 kWh in that time is an average power of 833 kW.
Given that a Telsa makes 377 kW at peak, i think we can safely say this is not possible! (and off course, would assume you are using that power 100% o the time without any braking or regen!
IME, spanking an EV as hard as is possible on the public road, with cheeky speeds deep into 3 figures, a consumption figure of about 1.5 ml/kWh is fairly typical, so you'd use 9kWh over your 6 mile journey, which is actually the same as an ICE doing about 28 mpg in terms of energy use
If your battery was full at your starting point (75 kWH and a range of 283ml) that's a more usual consumption of 3.77 ml/kWh (actually pretty good for a TM3 perf) then you'd expect your range to recover to around 240 miles after you stop spanking it........
TX.
I've spent the last three days giving people rolling 5-60mph joy rides in my new Polestar 2, with the inevitable giggles and expletives. From personal experience (I've got a 992 C2S for comparison, which ain't slow of the lights) EV horses, even with 2+ tonnes attached, just go soooo much better than ICE horses in the real world.
You end up re-genning into corners and exploding out of them before backing off and re-genning into the next, using the sheer thrust of the things to leave pretty much anything in your wake. Once you get it, its a real giggle.
Yeah, there is much more to a decent drivers car and for that reason I wouldn't swap my 911 for anything, but this Tesla Plaid must be some experience if its DOUBLE the acceleration of my PS2 / 911.
If I was going to splash £100k on a daily, this would be it without hesitation.
You end up re-genning into corners and exploding out of them before backing off and re-genning into the next, using the sheer thrust of the things to leave pretty much anything in your wake. Once you get it, its a real giggle.
Yeah, there is much more to a decent drivers car and for that reason I wouldn't swap my 911 for anything, but this Tesla Plaid must be some experience if its DOUBLE the acceleration of my PS2 / 911.
If I was going to splash £100k on a daily, this would be it without hesitation.
:stef1808 said:
Does the crazy fast giggling inducing acceleration become boring after a while or does it make you feel too sick to do daily?
30 minutes into the m3p test drive I felt very nauseous and had to take it easy.
Pretty sure it will make me smile 3 days a week on the M5 slip road @ 05:00 hrs at the start of my 100 mile each way commute for the next 35 months.30 minutes into the m3p test drive I felt very nauseous and had to take it easy.
You don’t have to completely floor it every time but I probably will
Each to their own but i found it got boring pretty quickly, initially it's entertaining but once you get used to the "g force" effect it's not really any more entertaining than braking hard. I tend to just drive it quickly but fairly sensibly.
Conversely, I'll never tire of wringing out the revs in our ancient and comparatively slow 986 Boxster. It struggles to outrun diesel rep mobiles but the flat six wailing away makes it so much more rewarding to drive hard than the soulless surge of the Tesla.
Interestingly, my gf has never once complained about my driving in any ICE car but she absolutely hates any properly hard acceleration in the model 3. I guess it's the instant violent surge that she finds uncomfortable.
Conversely, I'll never tire of wringing out the revs in our ancient and comparatively slow 986 Boxster. It struggles to outrun diesel rep mobiles but the flat six wailing away makes it so much more rewarding to drive hard than the soulless surge of the Tesla.
Interestingly, my gf has never once complained about my driving in any ICE car but she absolutely hates any properly hard acceleration in the model 3. I guess it's the instant violent surge that she finds uncomfortable.
Edited by snowandrocks on Saturday 12th June 21:46
silentbrown said:
Terminator X said:
Did you not see that he said "real world" or are you disagreeing with the real world?
Basic maths, physics and common sense vs. one anecdote...The "range remaining" is based on your current driving style. Can you switch to displaying a battery percentage or KWh remaining?
As much as it’s fun to watch them put a bigger motor in it, the bigger story is that they cancelled the ‘plus’ model, which was going to debut new battery technology and a 500 mile range.
Will be hillarious to see a four door saloon go down the strip with SF90s and 765LTs though, even if most drivers won’t use a fraction of the performance in the real world. I’m sure the DragTimes guy will buy one, that one will get used properly!
Will be hillarious to see a four door saloon go down the strip with SF90s and 765LTs though, even if most drivers won’t use a fraction of the performance in the real world. I’m sure the DragTimes guy will buy one, that one will get used properly!
Terminator X said:
Did you not see that he said "real world" or are you disagreeing with the real world?
TX.
Have a video of Matt Farah spanking a Taycan on California’s version of a B-road. TX.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WONuaO9KzxQ
At the end, he says he used 40% of the battery in 17 miles!
I think it’s fair to say that an EV’s range is somewhat less than the official figures, when it’s driven in a spirited manner. Same as a petrol car of course.
dgswk said:
I've spent the last three days giving people rolling 5-60mph joy rides in my new Polestar 2, with the inevitable giggles and expletives. From personal experience (I've got a 992 C2S for comparison, which ain't slow of the lights) EV horses, even with 2+ tonnes attached, just go soooo much better than ICE horses in the real world.
Your 992 C2S is faster over every performance metric (0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile etc).768 said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Not many petrol cars are going to be 40% down in 17 miles though, ouch.768 said:
Not many petrol cars are going to be 40% down in 17 miles though, ouch.
total range of 42.5 miles when caning it. I don't know just how hard they're driving but a high performance car might be as low as 3-4mpg so with a 15 gallon tank it wouldn't be massively better I don't think.Olivera said:
dgswk said:
I've spent the last three days giving people rolling 5-60mph joy rides in my new Polestar 2, with the inevitable giggles and expletives. From personal experience (I've got a 992 C2S for comparison, which ain't slow of the lights) EV horses, even with 2+ tonnes attached, just go soooo much better than ICE horses in the real world.
Your 992 C2S is faster over every performance metric (0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile etc).Sandpit Steve said:
Have a video of Matt Farah spanking a Taycan on California’s version of a B-road.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WONuaO9KzxQ
At the end, he says he used 40% of the battery in 17 miles!
I think it’s fair to say that an EV’s range is somewhat less than the official figures, when it’s driven in a spirited manner. Same as a petrol car of course.
An EV driven carefully can return about 5 ml/kWhhttps://youtube.com/watch?v=WONuaO9KzxQ
At the end, he says he used 40% of the battery in 17 miles!
I think it’s fair to say that an EV’s range is somewhat less than the official figures, when it’s driven in a spirited manner. Same as a petrol car of course.
An EV driven about as fast as one can drive on the road (without killing anyone or being arrested) will do about 1.5 ml/kWh
An EV driven on a track at max attack can get down to about 0.5 ml/kWh
So, best case to fast road is a 330% consumption increase, and best to track around 1000% increase
Take a typical ICE performance road car, lets say an BMW M3 or similar, then at best you might just get 40 mpg, drive it hard on the road and you'll get 25mpg, drive it hard on the track and it'll do 5 mpg, which are comparitive increases of 160% and 800%
What that tells us is that ICE cars are simply incredibly wastefull ALL the time, even when you drive as carefully as possible!
The range on an EV appears to drop to a greater extent when you trash them (ie when you have a much higher average roadload) because their energy useage is much more linearly tied to their roadload.
It's only because we are so used to the catastoprophic in-efficiency of ICE's that we see the EV increase in consumption as a negative, rather than what is actually the case which with an EV you are simply consuming the energy you need to travel at your chosen roadload (slow or fast) whereas with an ICE you are wasting energy continuously no matter how you drive..... It's like moaning someones stolen your wallet which has a single tenner in it, and yet at home your wife is continuously burning tenners on the fire to keep warm :-)
Max_Torque said:
An EV driven carefully can return about 5 ml/kWh
An EV driven about as fast as one can drive on the road (without killing anyone or being arrested) will do about 1.5 ml/kWh
An EV driven on a track at max attack can get down to about 0.5 ml/kWh
So, best case to fast road is a 330% consumption increase, and best to track around 1000% increase
Take a typical ICE performance road car, lets say an BMW M3 or similar, then at best you might just get 40 mpg, drive it hard on the road and you'll get 25mpg, drive it hard on the track and it'll do 5 mpg, which are comparitive increases of 160% and 800%
What that tells us is that ICE cars are simply incredibly wastefull ALL the time, even when you drive as carefully as possible!
The range on an EV appears to drop to a greater extent when you trash them (ie when you have a much higher average roadload) because their energy useage is much more linearly tied to their roadload.
It's only because we are so used to the catastoprophic in-efficiency of ICE's that we see the EV increase in consumption as a negative, rather than what is actually the case which with an EV you are simply consuming the energy you need to travel at your chosen roadload (slow or fast) whereas with an ICE you are wasting energy continuously no matter how you drive..... It's like moaning someones stolen your wallet which has a single tenner in it, and yet at home your wife is continuously burning tenners on the fire to keep warm :-)
While I get the point you're making, from an end user point of view the absolute efficiency isn't particularly relevant. The inefficiency of the ICE is masked by the huge amount of energy easily stored in the petrol tank.An EV driven about as fast as one can drive on the road (without killing anyone or being arrested) will do about 1.5 ml/kWh
An EV driven on a track at max attack can get down to about 0.5 ml/kWh
So, best case to fast road is a 330% consumption increase, and best to track around 1000% increase
Take a typical ICE performance road car, lets say an BMW M3 or similar, then at best you might just get 40 mpg, drive it hard on the road and you'll get 25mpg, drive it hard on the track and it'll do 5 mpg, which are comparitive increases of 160% and 800%
What that tells us is that ICE cars are simply incredibly wastefull ALL the time, even when you drive as carefully as possible!
The range on an EV appears to drop to a greater extent when you trash them (ie when you have a much higher average roadload) because their energy useage is much more linearly tied to their roadload.
It's only because we are so used to the catastoprophic in-efficiency of ICE's that we see the EV increase in consumption as a negative, rather than what is actually the case which with an EV you are simply consuming the energy you need to travel at your chosen roadload (slow or fast) whereas with an ICE you are wasting energy continuously no matter how you drive..... It's like moaning someones stolen your wallet which has a single tenner in it, and yet at home your wife is continuously burning tenners on the fire to keep warm :-)
snowandrocks said:
While I get the point you're making, from an end user point of view the absolute efficiency isn't particularly relevant. The inefficiency of the ICE is masked by the huge amount of energy easily stored in the petrol tank.
Let me agree and disagree at once! lol!I'm going to suggest that the absolute efficiency was, and is, irrelevant to the end user, ie a modern car buyer.
But, i'm also going to suggest that what is perhaps best called "unecessary consumption" is increasingly in the spotlight!
"Why", a modern consumer is now starting to ask, "does my car waste 75% of the energy i put into it"?
And when the alternative (and EV) is becoming widely available, and comes with few downsides and some very positive advantages to the average consumer, "why don't we buy one of those instead".
;-)
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