Will electric hot hatches be a hit ?
Discussion
There won't ever be an electric hot hatch. The HH was a product of its time to bring sports cars to the masses. Take s standard hatchback and make it fast and nimble.
You can't sensibly electrify the hatchbacks of today and certainly not in a sporty way. All kinds of reasons why, size, weight, form factor, cost.
Perhaps the question is what does the "mass-popularity" electric sports car look like? What are Alpine making? Maybe when the all new Zoe arrives in a couple of years, there will be a proper sporty version of it under the Alpine brand. But it won't be like a hot-hatch - far too heavy. Can they make a sports car from it which is really good to drive and immense fun? I'd like to think so. It boils down to the ability to make an electric car with fantastic driving dynamics and all the tech gizmos that the majority want these days. Maybe Lotus will help them with that as that's the essence of what Lotus have to do - make fantastic driving dynamics whilst losing the mantra of light weight.
I'm all for it, I think proper electric sports cars will be brilliant! All that moaning about noise and no gears, it'll be irrelevant.
You can't sensibly electrify the hatchbacks of today and certainly not in a sporty way. All kinds of reasons why, size, weight, form factor, cost.
Perhaps the question is what does the "mass-popularity" electric sports car look like? What are Alpine making? Maybe when the all new Zoe arrives in a couple of years, there will be a proper sporty version of it under the Alpine brand. But it won't be like a hot-hatch - far too heavy. Can they make a sports car from it which is really good to drive and immense fun? I'd like to think so. It boils down to the ability to make an electric car with fantastic driving dynamics and all the tech gizmos that the majority want these days. Maybe Lotus will help them with that as that's the essence of what Lotus have to do - make fantastic driving dynamics whilst losing the mantra of light weight.
I'm all for it, I think proper electric sports cars will be brilliant! All that moaning about noise and no gears, it'll be irrelevant.
BertBert said:
There won't ever be an electric hot hatch. The HH was a product of its time to bring sports cars to the masses. Take s standard hatchback and make it fast and nimble.
You can't sensibly electrify the hatchbacks of today and certainly not in a sporty way. All kinds of reasons why, size, weight, form factor, cost.
Perhaps the question is what does the "mass-popularity" electric sports car look like? What are Alpine making? Maybe when the all new Zoe arrives in a couple of years, there will be a proper sporty version of it under the Alpine brand. But it won't be like a hot-hatch - far too heavy. Can they make a sports car from it which is really good to drive and immense fun? I'd like to think so. It boils down to the ability to make an electric car with fantastic driving dynamics and all the tech gizmos that the majority want these days. Maybe Lotus will help them with that as that's the essence of what Lotus have to do - make fantastic driving dynamics whilst losing the mantra of light weight.
I'm all for it, I think proper electric sports cars will be brilliant! All that moaning about noise and no gears, it'll be irrelevant.
It would be naive to think that there won't ever be an electric hot Hatch. Honda is already thinking of one with the Honda E.......You can't sensibly electrify the hatchbacks of today and certainly not in a sporty way. All kinds of reasons why, size, weight, form factor, cost.
Perhaps the question is what does the "mass-popularity" electric sports car look like? What are Alpine making? Maybe when the all new Zoe arrives in a couple of years, there will be a proper sporty version of it under the Alpine brand. But it won't be like a hot-hatch - far too heavy. Can they make a sports car from it which is really good to drive and immense fun? I'd like to think so. It boils down to the ability to make an electric car with fantastic driving dynamics and all the tech gizmos that the majority want these days. Maybe Lotus will help them with that as that's the essence of what Lotus have to do - make fantastic driving dynamics whilst losing the mantra of light weight.
I'm all for it, I think proper electric sports cars will be brilliant! All that moaning about noise and no gears, it'll be irrelevant.
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/honda-e-...
DonkeyApple said:
Such people get mocked on PH as some form of Luddite but obviously it isn't backward to find pleasure in old furniture, old art, old machinery, old cars. It's not backward to find pleasure in operating that machinery. Nor is it backward to just go somewhere for pleasure, for the sake of it.
I think a good chunk of the mocking is a response to silly comments such as calling all EVs "milk floats" or "white goods". Such comments are every bit as bad as anyone replying "well, if your ICE doesn't have a manual choke or spark advance then you're just a passenger". Possibly worse - no-one calls an EV a "milk float" without intending to provoke a negative reaction they can then complain about, after all.Do you get people who are into antique furniture saying "I wouldn't even sit in a chair that didn't have a solid timber frame"? Or art aficionados who can't bear to look at a painting if the gilding on the frame wasn't done with authentic gesso (my apologies here if I've made an awful technical faux pas)?
DonkeyApple said:
The electric hot hatch is clearly going to be different. More power means more weight but the basic hatchback box to begin with has that hot hatch performance as a result of needing range. Most hatchbacks probably only need a tiny battery as they only travel a few miles a day but they are being fitted with 250-300 mile ranges and get hot hatch performance.
It'll be interesting to see how this pans out over time. Big battery doesn't necessarily mean high power output; and higher output motors, power converters etc add mass and cost. It wouldn't surprise me if we see extra differentiation within models over the next few years (I'm thinking about multiple power and trim options) with more emphasis on cost reduction (and therefore performance reduction) as an entry level model, then performance added back in for niche markets.
BertBert said:
There won't ever be an electric hot hatch. The HH was a product of its time to bring sports cars to the masses. Take s standard hatchback and make it fast and nimble.
You can't sensibly electrify the hatchbacks of today and certainly not in a sporty way. All kinds of reasons why, size, weight, form factor, cost.
Perhaps the question is what does the "mass-popularity" electric sports car look like? What are Alpine making? Maybe when the all new Zoe arrives in a couple of years, there will be a proper sporty version of it under the Alpine brand. But it won't be like a hot-hatch - far too heavy. Can they make a sports car from it which is really good to drive and immense fun? I'd like to think so. It boils down to the ability to make an electric car with fantastic driving dynamics and all the tech gizmos that the majority want these days. Maybe Lotus will help them with that as that's the essence of what Lotus have to do - make fantastic driving dynamics whilst losing the mantra of light weight.
I'm all for it, I think proper electric sports cars will be brilliant! All that moaning about noise and no gears, it'll be irrelevant.
That said, the i3 is the same sort of weight as a typical hot hatch and good fun to hoon. The range is also OK, even for blasts between mundanity. I've not driven the EV Mini but the performance stats and weight aren't all that off. I think these two cars that are at the early stage of EVs tend to show that everything is there bar the manual labour and oikery which personally, I consider key ingredients. You can't sensibly electrify the hatchbacks of today and certainly not in a sporty way. All kinds of reasons why, size, weight, form factor, cost.
Perhaps the question is what does the "mass-popularity" electric sports car look like? What are Alpine making? Maybe when the all new Zoe arrives in a couple of years, there will be a proper sporty version of it under the Alpine brand. But it won't be like a hot-hatch - far too heavy. Can they make a sports car from it which is really good to drive and immense fun? I'd like to think so. It boils down to the ability to make an electric car with fantastic driving dynamics and all the tech gizmos that the majority want these days. Maybe Lotus will help them with that as that's the essence of what Lotus have to do - make fantastic driving dynamics whilst losing the mantra of light weight.
I'm all for it, I think proper electric sports cars will be brilliant! All that moaning about noise and no gears, it'll be irrelevant.
Sporky said:
DonkeyApple said:
Such people get mocked on PH as some form of Luddite but obviously it isn't backward to find pleasure in old furniture, old art, old machinery, old cars. It's not backward to find pleasure in operating that machinery. Nor is it backward to just go somewhere for pleasure, for the sake of it.
I think a good chunk of the mocking is a response to silly comments such as calling all EVs "milk floats" or "white goods". Such comments are every bit as bad as anyone replying "well, if your ICE doesn't have a manual choke or spark advance then you're just a passenger". Possibly worse - no-one calls an EV a "milk float" without intending to provoke a negative reaction they can then complain about, after all.Do you get people who are into antique furniture saying "I wouldn't even sit in a chair that didn't have a solid timber frame"? Or art aficionados who can't bear to look at a painting if the gilding on the frame wasn't done with authentic gesso (my apologies here if I've made an awful technical faux pas)?
DonkeyApple said:
That said, the i3 is the same sort of weight as a typical hot hatch and good fun to hoon. The range is also OK, even for blasts between mundanity. I've not driven the EV Mini but the performance stats and weight aren't all that off. I think these two cars that are at the early stage of EVs tend to show that everything is there bar the manual labour and oikery which personally, I consider key ingredients.
It's got a "real world" range of about 110 miles though, hasn't it? That's not really "OK" as someone's only car unless they really never use it for much other than commutig and local trips.Northernboy said:
DonkeyApple said:
That said, the i3 is the same sort of weight as a typical hot hatch and good fun to hoon. The range is also OK, even for blasts between mundanity. I've not driven the EV Mini but the performance stats and weight aren't all that off. I think these two cars that are at the early stage of EVs tend to show that everything is there bar the manual labour and oikery which personally, I consider key ingredients.
It's got a "real world" range of about 110 miles though, hasn't it? That's not really "OK" as someone's only car unless they really never use it for much other than commutig and local trips.They've never been more than 20 miles from home. This is not unusual.
Northernboy said:
DonkeyApple said:
That said, the i3 is the same sort of weight as a typical hot hatch and good fun to hoon. The range is also OK, even for blasts between mundanity. I've not driven the EV Mini but the performance stats and weight aren't all that off. I think these two cars that are at the early stage of EVs tend to show that everything is there bar the manual labour and oikery which personally, I consider key ingredients.
It's got a "real world" range of about 110 miles though, hasn't it? That's not really "OK" as someone's only car unless they really never use it for much other than commutig and local trips.The thing to remember is that 2035 is the mooted date where we have no choice to buy an EV and that date isn't set in stone, nor will technology stand still, or innovation or adapting and even if 2035 does come to pass we don't have to sell our petrol car but can keep it for years to come. Given the rate of change is defined by how many new cars are bought each year and that it's perfectly possible to make a petrol car last 20 years, most people will be able to stick with petrol if that is their desire for the rear of their driving life.
My gut feeling is that of all the modern cars that people end up wanting to keep and cherish the hot hatch is likely to be the most popular. They are iconic yet affordable and offer the most fun for the least space and cost, two elements that seem fairly set in stone as social restraints over the coming decades.
The only significant issue being that hatches are predominantly urban vehicles and more urban environments will probably set outright bans on ICE cars over the next decade?
CheesecakeRunner said:
Northernboy said:
DonkeyApple said:
That said, the i3 is the same sort of weight as a typical hot hatch and good fun to hoon. The range is also OK, even for blasts between mundanity. I've not driven the EV Mini but the performance stats and weight aren't all that off. I think these two cars that are at the early stage of EVs tend to show that everything is there bar the manual labour and oikery which personally, I consider key ingredients.
It's got a "real world" range of about 110 miles though, hasn't it? That's not really "OK" as someone's only car unless they really never use it for much other than commutig and local trips.They've never been more than 20 miles from home. This is not unusual.
BertBert said:
There won't ever be an electric hot hatch. The HH was a product of its time to bring sports cars to the masses. Take s standard hatchback and make it fast and nimble.
You can't sensibly electrify the hatchbacks of today and certainly not in a sporty way. All kinds of reasons why, size, weight, form factor, cost.
Thing is, though, the 205GTi and AX GT and Charade GTTi were hot hatchbacks, and the Golf R and AMG A45 and Audi RS3 are hot hatchbacks. That's a big spread of weight and power and drivetrains.You can't sensibly electrify the hatchbacks of today and certainly not in a sporty way. All kinds of reasons why, size, weight, form factor, cost.
Northernboy said:
DonkeyApple said:
That said, the i3 is the same sort of weight as a typical hot hatch and good fun to hoon. The range is also OK, even for blasts between mundanity. I've not driven the EV Mini but the performance stats and weight aren't all that off. I think these two cars that are at the early stage of EVs tend to show that everything is there bar the manual labour and oikery which personally, I consider key ingredients.
It's got a "real world" range of about 110 miles though, hasn't it? That's not really "OK" as someone's only car unless they really never use it for much other than commutig and local trips.Late to the thread but my 112hp Mk2 Golf GTI has more than enough power to have fun down an A/B road so, no I don't think a heavy numb electric "hot hatch" will fit the bill.
c960kgs, no PAS. Might pop a 268 cam in it and flow the head and I bet it will be even more fun.
c960kgs, no PAS. Might pop a 268 cam in it and flow the head and I bet it will be even more fun.
Edited by _Mja_ on Friday 18th June 10:56
Wiltshire Lad said:
According to DoT stats average daily mileage is around 19 miles .
Average isn't the figure that matters though. The one that you care about is the longest journey that you'll want to do in the car regularly. If someone does trips to the shops twice a week but also wants to do a couple of hundred miles every other month then they have a problem.My average mileage is quite low, but I use the same car to go up and down the country a few times a year.
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