RE: Cayman GT4 PDK vs. A110 Legende GT vs. Huracan RWD

[ITP]

The thing with Porsche’s though, in response to the 60-80% sold as auto compared to alpine, is that many, many Porsche’s are bought by people who just want a ‘Porsche’. We all know this. They just don’t care, or even know about the dynamics. They could handle like cr@p and people would still buy them. Having an auto just makes it easier for them.

I’d wager that a much higher % of alpine buyers are more pistonheads type buyers, who are prepared to drop a large amount of money on what is not a recognisable ‘brand’, without the same showroom appeal. They will be interested in the lightweight engineering and handling feel, not a consideration of many (but not all of course) a typical cayman/boxster buyer.
These buyers will also be much more interested in what gearbox it has too, many would prefer the choice of a manual. Sadly denied. Shame.

Edited by ITP on Monday 21st June 20:13

[timhum]

If manual gearboxes are so much better than flappy paddles how come F1 and LMP1 and 2 cars don't have them.

I'm a delighted A110 owner after having owned many sports cars over the years. For me lightweight, nimbleness and useable performance are what a sports car is all about. The Alpine takes me back to 1972 when I bought a Ginetta G15 and then 1974 with a Lotus Elan Sprint. That said I continue to admire Porsche engineering, I've owned 4.

Tim

[ddom]

Schmed said:

Well I have good news- here’s a five year old one for £73k...

https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/Cayman-GT4-315...

Still overpriced tbh and a new Alpine is cheaper.

[av185]

timhum said:

If manual gearboxes are so much better than flappy paddles how come F1 and LMP1 and 2 cars don't have them.


Tim

Manual gearboxes are 'better' in terms of driver interaction but they are generally slower in most cars for those chasing lap times

Thats the sole reason why F1 cars etc are 'auto'.

[ITP]

timhum said:

If manual gearboxes are so much better than flappy paddles how come F1 and LMP1 and 2 cars don't have them.

I'm a delighted A110 owner after having owned many sports cars over the years. For me lightweight, nimbleness and useable performance are what a sports car is all about. The Alpine takes me back to 1972 when I bought a Ginetta G15 and then 1974 with a Lotus Elan Sprint. That said I continue to admire Porsche engineering, I've owned 4.

Tim

Race cars use the technology that produces the fastest lap times. Nothing else matters. This is not so important in a road car. No-one drives their sports car flat out everywhere on the road.

Some people prefer an auto in any type of car, big saloon or lightweight sports car, that’s fine, it’s choice. I just believe the alpine would have sold a lot more with a manual option too. It’s nearer in concept to a lotus than a Porsche, currently on autotrader out of 90 cars for sale 87 are manual..... Exiges and evoras are available in auto, with little take up.

I also believe the Yaris GR would not have been a total sell out if it had been auto only, like the alpine, even though all rally cars are sequential boxes now.

[timhum]

ITP said:

timhum said:

If manual gearboxes are so much better than flappy paddles how come F1 and LMP1 and 2 cars don't have them.

I'm a delighted A110 owner after having owned many sports cars over the years. For me lightweight, nimbleness and useable performance are what a sports car is all about. The Alpine takes me back to 1972 when I bought a Ginetta G15 and then 1974 with a Lotus Elan Sprint. That said I continue to admire Porsche engineering, I've owned 4.

Tim

Race cars use the technology that produces the fastest lap times. Nothing else matters. This is not so important in a road car. No-one drives their sports car flat out everywhere on the road.

Some people prefer an auto in any type of car, big saloon or lightweight sports car, that’s fine, it’s choice. I just believe the alpine would have sold a lot more with a manual option too. It’s nearer in concept to a lotus than a Porsche, currently on autotrader out of 90 cars for sale 87 are manual..... Exiges and evoras are available in auto, with little take up.


I also believe the Yaris GR would not have been a total sell out if it had been auto only, like the alpine, even though all rally cars are sequential boxes now.

Thanks for the explanation. Isn't the reason for lack of take-up of Lotus auto gearboxes because they are pretty dreadful? I've no downer on Lotus, son had an Elise, brilliant car.

Tim

[ITP]

Apparently latest lotus auto boxes are pretty good.
Hats off to lotus for offering one when most of their customers choose manual. In the same way it’s hats off to Porsche for still offering manual, when most of their customers prefer auto....

I’m all for choice!

[Koolkat969]

ITP said:

The thing with Porsche’s though, in response to the 60-80% sold as auto compared to alpine, is that many, many Porsche’s are bought by people who just want a ‘Porsche’. We all know this. They just don’t care, or even know about the dynamics. They could handle like cr@p and people would still buy them. Having an auto just makes it easier for them.

I’d wager that a much higher % of alpine buyers are more pistonheads type buyers, who are prepared to drop a large amount of money on what is not a recognisable ‘brand’, without the same showroom appeal. They will be interested in the lightweight engineering and handling feel, not a consideration of many (but not all of course) a typical cayman/boxster buyer.
These buyers will also be much more interested in what gearbox it has too, many would prefer the choice of a manual. Sadly denied. Shame.

Edited by ITP on Monday 21st June 20:13

Absolutely agree!

[Miserablegit]

There are about 3 people on Pistonheads who have said they didn’t buy one as it wasn’t a manual. That’s not a lot of lost sales for the cost of offering the option.

I was always a die-hard manual fan until I tried a pdk and enjoyed it for what it was. As a result I test drove the Alpine and realised the gearbox really suited it.

[Andrew-396pl]

[quote=ITP]The thing with Porsche’s though, in response to the 60-80% sold as auto compared to alpine, is that many, many Porsche’s are bought by people who just want a ‘Porsche’. We all know this. They just don’t care, or even know about the dynamics. They could handle like cr@p and people would still buy them. Having an auto just makes it easier for them.

I’d wager that a much higher % of alpine buyers are more pistonheads type buyers, who are prepared to drop a large amount of money on what is not a recognisable ‘brand’, without the same showroom appeal. They will be interested in the lightweight engineering and handling feel, not a consideration of many (but not all of course) a typical cayman/boxster buyer.
These buyers will also be much more interested in what gearbox it has too, many would prefer the choice of a manual. Sadly denied. Shame.


This ∆∆∆ all-day
My ex boss knew of my history of my Porsche love affair. Discusses the fantastic engineering and handling.....
He stated his want for a 911
Great I thought...
We discussed model... decided on 997...
Great
997.1 or 997.2......997.2 chosen
Great
Read up about known issues and were both understanding of what to ask and look for
Great
" I've bought one" he tells me
Great
Go to view it in the car park.
Its a convertible.
Not great

[Prestonese]

Miserablegit said:

There are about 3 people on Pistonheads who have said they didn’t buy one as it wasn’t a manual. That’s not a lot of lost sales for the cost of offering the option.

I was always a die-hard manual fan until I tried a pdk and enjoyed it for what it was. As a result I test drove the Alpine and realised the gearbox really suited it.

It's the same three guys who seem to spend all their time saying the same things about a car they have no interest in. It's like they have nothing better to do. Imagine if the same three guys were doing something similar on a Porsche or McLaren thread.

[PH User]

Miserablegit said:

There are about 3 people on Pistonheads who have said they didn’t buy one as it wasn’t a manual. That’s not a lot of lost sales for the cost of offering the option.

I was always a die-hard manual fan until I tried a pdk and enjoyed it for what it was. As a result I test drove the Alpine and realised the gearbox really suited it.

So they've lost about 50% of UK sales

[cidered77]

ITP said:

The thing with Porsche’s though, in response to the 60-80% sold as auto compared to alpine, is that many, many Porsche’s are bought by people who just want a ‘Porsche’. We all know this. They just don’t care, or even know about the dynamics. They could handle like cr@p and people would still buy them. Having an auto just makes it easier for them.

I’d wager that a much higher % of alpine buyers are more pistonheads type buyers, who are prepared to drop a large amount of money on what is not a recognisable ‘brand’, without the same showroom appeal. They will be interested in the lightweight engineering and handling feel, not a consideration of many (but not all of course) a typical cayman/boxster buyer.
These buyers will also be much more interested in what gearbox it has too, many would prefer the choice of a manual. Sadly denied. Shame.

Edited by ITP on Monday 21st June 20:13

I reckon i'm one of those buyers, could care less about " brand values" and showroom appeal - but, when I read a manual would have made it heavier and wouldn't fit in frankly an amazing package that makes a 1,100kg safe relative comfortable car, that's it - tick. Done. Not a problem.

So who knows the real impact.... can't pretend it's not put off some buyers of course, but there are a niche out there who can see the reasons why they went that way, value the extra (guess) 30-50kg weight saving, and just get over it

[SirTK]

Miserablegit said:

There are about 3 people on Pistonheads who have said they didn’t buy one as it wasn’t a manual. That’s not a lot of lost sales for the cost of offering the option.

Seems like a lot more, possibly because those 3 people keep on saying it over and over again whenever the A110 is mentioned.

In this thread I see a trend towards people criticising the looks - perhaps in desperation to find some other reason to down the car. As others have said, I've seen nothing but genuine delight and compliments from the public in my (nearly 3 years) of ownership, right up to the present time. Wonderful car.

[Miserablegit]

PH User said:

So they've lost about 50% of UK sales

touche

[PH User]

Miserablegit said:

PH User said:

So they've lost about 50% of UK sales

touche

Well I'm glad we can smile about it. I actually like the idea of these cars, it's just not for me.

[SidewaysSi]

Andrew-396pl said:

ITP said:

The thing with Porsche’s though, in response to the 60-80% sold as auto compared to alpine, is that many, many Porsche’s are bought by people who just want a ‘Porsche’. We all know this. They just don’t care, or even know about the dynamics. They could handle like cr@p and people would still buy them. Having an auto just makes it easier for them.

I’d wager that a much higher % of alpine buyers are more pistonheads type buyers, who are prepared to drop a large amount of money on what is not a recognisable ‘brand’, without the same showroom appeal. They will be interested in the lightweight engineering and handling feel, not a consideration of many (but not all of course) a typical cayman/boxster buyer.
These buyers will also be much more interested in what gearbox it has too, many would prefer the choice of a manual. Sadly denied. Shame.


This ??? all-day
My ex boss knew of my history of my Porsche love affair. Discusses the fantastic engineering and handling.....
He stated his want for a 911
Great I thought...
We discussed model... decided on 997...
Great
997.1 or 997.2......997.2 chosen
Great
Read up about known issues and were both understanding of what to ask and look for
Great
" I've bought one" he tells me
Great
Go to view it in the car park.
Its a convertible.
Not great

That's the appeal of the 911 though - something for everyone. Convertible, auto with 4wd is a joke spec for me but seems like some people like that sort of thing.

[PhantomPH]

Why do I feel like more and more PH threads are crying out for a Tokyo Drift - "He reads the brochure.." gif?

(except with an additional - "He's read an article" version. )

Edited by PhantomPH on Tuesday 22 June 16:50

[Dale487]

Miserablegit said:

Agree- I'm all for choice however there would have been downsides:
Increased development costs would lead to increased prices or cost-cutting elsewhere as these cars are sold in relatively small numbers and will be off sale sometime in 2024.

Not all manuals are equal - there is an assumption that manual would be a great drive. I've driven plenty of manual gearboxes that had "character" that I'd swap for a DCT any day of the week.

Would it then suffer with the long gearing that, in my mind, detracts from the Cayman? Longer gears to improve 0-62/0-100 /emissions/economy issues?

I've heard that the long gearing is drive by noise regulations not emissions/economy.

[bcr5784]

Dale487 said:

I've heard that the long gearing is drive by noise regulations not emissions/economy.

I find that hard to believe. I would have thought that Porsche could meet pretty much any noise regulations without seriously compromising any noise regulations. People have been complaining about the gearing long before switchable sports exhausts became "dubious" under the EU regs.