RE: Cayman GT4 PDK vs. A110 Legende GT vs. Huracan RWD

[PH User]

For me, the styling is awkward in some places and ugly in others, oh and yes I have seen it in the flesh.

But if you like it and enjoy it then it doesn't really matter what everyone else thinks.

[SidewaysSi]

PH User said:

For me, the styling is awkward in some places and ugly in others, oh and yes I have seen it in the flesh.

But if you like it and enjoy it then it doesn't really matter what everyone else thinks.

Exactly. Personally I would rather have an Alpine than the others as it draws far less attention to itself so ultimately becomes more useable and therefore enjoyable.

I don't really want a new Porsche/Lambo in a bright colour with a big wing on the back - leaving it anywhere wouldn't make me particularly comfortable.

[Koolkat969]

BadBull said:

footsoldier said:

BadBull said:

For a clean sheet design, the way the Alpine looks is unforgivable for me.

Same with the new mid engined Corvette.

Both should/could be so much better.

Looks are subjective, I like it, and much better in the flesh, imo.
It’s not a clean sheet though…

It didn't have to be a homage to the original though.

Could've gone in another, more modern, direction.

I'm just not a fan of it, sorry.

I actually like the fact that it's an homage to the original. Going in another direction can be risky at times - see what Honda did with the NSX.....would have been better IMO if they had mirrored some of the original design.

[Koolkat969]

PH User said:

For me, the styling is awkward in some places and ugly in others, oh and yes I have seen it in the flesh.

But if you like it and enjoy it then it doesn't really matter what everyone else thinks.

Not ugly but rather quirky looking to my eyes and I like that!

[cidered77]

av185 said:

cidered77 said:

"lacks a manual", says the UK Car enthusiast internet - whilst the UK public continues to select auto over manual for pretty much every car when both are offered alongside each other....

New 991.2 GT3 manual and 991.2 GT3 PDK sold in similar numbers in the UK and only around 8% of used 991.2 GT3s offered are manual as most first owners are keeping them.

992 GT3 is expected to be the same.

But - hardly cars you can just walk in and buy though,and also let's be honest - many buyers of these hide them away, plus are very conscious of buying for resale value as well. How many of the manual owners keeping them are enjoying the car, and how many are holding as an investment i wonder....

Looking at Caymans on autotrader gives you a much fairer representation of what the general public actually buys ... i can't believe a more "commodity" car (as in keep for 3 years PCP, then the next thing.) would have so many owners holding onto them - and there percentage of autos vs. manual is stark.

Anyways - it's all down to personal preference end of the day, my point only is that I think the level of forum chat on manual vs. what people buy and what secretly a lot of people want is out of whack.

My NSX, MX5 and GR Yaris have wonderful manual boxes - but i wouldn't think twice about an auto for a sports car. I enjoy an agile car you can push to the edge of grip (why I don't think will ever need something quicker than say standard A110 levels of pace- not dissimilar to the Yaris in that respect); how i change gears just down the list for me. Then chuck in the fact than even with Sunday cars, a lot of driving is in town and boring, an auto is much easier as well.

If the very common "it needs a manual option" for the Alpine were true (ignoring the development costs, on an already sketchy business case for a ground up new aluminium car, etc), then we'd just see more manuals sold when both are offered alongside each other.... if i'm an Alpine bean counter and had to pick one, decision seems obvious...

[Baldchap]

49% of car sales in 2019 were auto, and rising. People might say it needs a manual, but the car buying public at large don't seem to agree.

[PH User]

Baldchap said:

49% of car sales in 2019 were auto, and rising. People might say it needs a manual, but the car buying public at large don't seem to agree.

It's rising, no arguments there, but many petrol heads still prefer a manual so the 49% figure doesn't really tell the whole story.

It's a shame for all of us when we aren't given choices.

[Lexington59]

Baldchap said:

49% of car sales in 2019 were auto, and rising. People might say it needs a manual, but the car buying public at large don't seem to agree.

They don't seem to want to buy it either, judging by the dire A110 sales figures.

[cidered77]

Lexington59 said:

Baldchap said:

49% of car sales in 2019 were auto, and rising. People might say it needs a manual, but the car buying public at large don't seem to agree.

They don't seem to want to buy it either, judging by the dire A110 sales figures.

if they were offered in manual, then it would just be "needs a 6 cylinder" or "it looks weird" as the excuse (despite Renault not having one; it being heavier, meaning heavier suspension components, heavier car, etc etc).

Genuine enthusiast car buying segment is a lot smaller than the image/brand buying segment in the UK. Not for one second saying anyone who prefers a Cayman over an Alpine isn't an enthusiast, in all variants it's a fantastic car as it should be with all that R&D budget and decades of experience Porsche has - but i'll wager the number of people buying an Alpine as something to look cool on the drive/at the gold club is a whole lot smaller.

Analogy of the GT86 is a good one - never seemed to hear an owner moan about lack of power. Lots of moaning from the non-owning Internet tho....

[PH User]

It's hardly a suprise that you dont hear owners complaining of no manual option or a lack of power. It's a bit like it's not really surprising that the ones who do complain are the ones who didn't buy one.

[Miserablegit]

Except the most vocal, as usual, are the ones who are not/ were not in the market for this kind of car anyway.

The lambo is impressive if the weight is anywhere near that- I’d love a V10.

As others have said, one of the compromises with other cars is the speed that needs to be obtained before the car feels alive. It’s no good having an engine that sounds good at 7k if the gearing means there’s risk of points every time it is explored.

The benefit of the DCT in the Alpine is it is geared for fun at normal speeds with close ratios that match cars of old - choose a gear for every 10mph approximately.
This means the engine can be exercised through a lot of the gears without needing to worry about points.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Koolkat969 said:

PH User said:

For me, the styling is awkward in some places and ugly in others, oh and yes I have seen it in the flesh.

But if you like it and enjoy it then it doesn't really matter what everyone else thinks.

Not ugly but rather quirky looking to my eyes and I like that!

One persons quirky, is another persons ugly, no rules, just have what makes the person in question happy.

[FrenchA110]

Anyone knowing the A110 story would know why it couldn’t and didn’t get a manual option. The DCT was actually lighter in this particular case and they have so little space in that tight body that a manual is literally impossible to implement.

Givent the current state of auto vs manual in the 60k sportcars market they made the right choice.

Plus if you happen to try out the A110 chances are you’d find the DCT a perfect fit to the spirit of the car with its short gears allowing for some real fun on the open road.

I loved my ND MX-5 MT, and I also love my A110’s DCT. Sure sometimes I wish I had a MT on some boring roads but more often than not I’m glad it has the DCT.

Looks are subjective so no argument there.

Edited by FrenchA110 on Monday 21st June 12:26

[PH User]

Shame there wasn't the choice though, I'm sure we would all agree with that.

[worldwidewebs]

Alpine thread descends into gearbox moan 'shocker'

[Miserablegit]

Agree- I'm all for choice however there would have been downsides:
Increased development costs would lead to increased prices or cost-cutting elsewhere as these cars are sold in relatively small numbers and will be off sale sometime in 2024.

Not all manuals are equal - there is an assumption that manual would be a great drive. I've driven plenty of manual gearboxes that had "character" that I'd swap for a DCT any day of the week.

Would it then suffer with the long gearing that, in my mind, detracts from the Cayman? Longer gears to improve 0-62/0-100 /emissions/economy issues?

[shih tzu faced]

Wait a minute are you lot telling me the Alpine doesn’t have a manual gearbox option???

I DEMAND to know why this has never been mentioned before

[FrenchA110]

We could rewrite history all day but the reality is that it was the DCT A110 or no car at all so I’ll gladly take the one that exists.

It’s already a little miracle that it went into the market in this current era, even with a DCT only.

[shih tzu faced]

FrenchA110 said:

We could rewrite history all day but the reality is that it was the DCT A110 or no car at all so I’ll gladly take the one that exists.

I know that, was just messing about and alluding to the sorry fact that any mention of the A110 on here results in pages of handbags about the gearbox.

Me, I love the A110, sadly can’t afford one but would have one in a flash if I could over any other new car bar none.

[FrenchA110]

shih tzu faced said:

I know that, was just messing about and alluding to the sorry fact that any mention of the A110 on here results in pages of handbags about the gearbox.

Me, I love the A110, sadly can’t afford one but would have one in a flash if I could over any other new car bar none.

No worries I was replying to PH User.

Yes always the same comments from non-customers, if it’s not the dual-clutch it’s the lack of V6/V8 (don’t get me started on how it wouldn’t be the same car at all with an heavy engine in the first place..) or the Renault parts in the cabin or that’s it not a Porsche etc.

The actual people spending real money buying those cars new seem to like it and appreciate it for what it is : a unique niche sportcar sitting between the rawness, lightness and fun of an Elise and the daily-ability, noise insulation and modern features of a Cayman.

Edited by FrenchA110 on Monday 21st June 13:53