Middle class chap car of choice in your manor
Discussion
okgo said:
That is mental. And does show the regional differences.
A fairly good mate of mine lives in what I'd imagine is now nearly a £2m house and has a late noughties golf. I dare say that's not that unusual in London.
Your previous comment that "cars are not really a mark of success for a lot of folk in London, houses/schools your kids go to etc come a fair way above cars I'd have thought" is bang on the money.A fairly good mate of mine lives in what I'd imagine is now nearly a £2m house and has a late noughties golf. I dare say that's not that unusual in London.
It's also not unusual down here for people to have a bike and/or watch that is worth a lot more than their car.
spreadsheet monkey said:
Your previous comment that "cars are not really a mark of success for a lot of folk in London, houses/schools your kids go to etc come a fair way above cars I'd have thought" is bang on the money.
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It's entirely possible that some people buy expensive cars for other reasons than wanting a mark of success, they might even do that despite the green eyed monsters. It's also possible that they still send their kids to a private school or have a nice house. .
okgo said:
jamei303 said:
The biggest disparity in my neighborhood is the £650k house we tried to buy when moving to the area but it went to sealed bids and we lost out to a family who bit £95k over the asking price.
The only car they have had since moving in seven years ago is a battered 2004 Golf, it's getting rusty now.
That is mental. And does show the regional differences.The only car they have had since moving in seven years ago is a battered 2004 Golf, it's getting rusty now.
A fairly good mate of mine lives in what I'd imagine is now nearly a £2m house and has a late noughties golf. I dare say that's not that unusual in London.
I'm generally of the view that for the most part cars don't tell people any of the things that some perceive they do. I'm also of the view that the concept of 'middle class' as it was once defined doesn't really exist either. We've had 40 years of rapid social mobility and wealth expansion in the UK and the subsequent change of consumer culture and of values.
Back in the 80s the 'middle class' group as it was back then was very small as a percentage of society. Today it's about 'middle income' and it is a very large group no longer even remotely confined by its long gone and narrow social parameters. It's comprised of multiple cultures, multiple backgrounds and multiple values, beliefs and aspirations.
As a result, the car no longer serves the purpose of defining a social group as it once did. Which I think is a really good thing.
Obviously there are people who cling to the past, as shown by threads like this and the others but more depressingly shown on the open road by a fellow driver being utterly obsequious on Monday when you're driving one car and then on Tuesday when you're driving a different car the same chap is trying to run you off the road for being an inferior human.
spreadsheet monkey said:
Your previous comment that "cars are not really a mark of success for a lot of folk in London, houses/schools your kids go to etc come a fair way above cars I'd have thought" is bang on the money.
It's also not unusual down here for people to have a bike and/or watch that is worth a lot more than their car.
Yep.It's also not unusual down here for people to have a bike and/or watch that is worth a lot more than their car.
I think different countries view this differently too. My neighbour is from South Africa and we were talking about a chap on the next road who has a nice little cottage, but owns outright two 5 bed houses on our street, rents one out, I think the other is just used to store stuff (they're probably worth 1.1-1.2m each). I told SA chap about this and his first response was 'why doesn't he have a better car'. I don't know what car he has, but it highlights how in much of the world and the UK the car you drive should directly correlate to your wealth.
I live in wealthy suburb where nearly everyone is upper middleclass. its seems all the middle aged chaps around here have bought into the BBC nightly propaganda . Although nearly all are wealthier than me they seem to drive mild bland hybrids, last gen Vw polo's, poverty spec entry level BMW's and the odd Mercedes. The big no no's are diesel or v8's. My car choices stand out more than they ever did 30 years ago when the whole area was Jaguar xj's, BMW v8's and Porsches.
magic Monkey Dust said:
I live in wealthy suburb where nearly everyone is upper middleclass. its seems all the middle aged chaps around here have bought into the BBC nightly propaganda.
I suspect that it is more the case that some/many people who are not interested in cars per se, and nowadays see them as a commodity, can now drive reliable vehicles that perform well enough for them, aren't inconveniently large, are not theft/vandal magnets and don't necessarily cost much or look impressive.MC Bodge said:
magic Monkey Dust said:
I live in wealthy suburb where nearly everyone is upper middleclass. its seems all the middle aged chaps around here have bought into the BBC nightly propaganda.
I suspect that it is more the case that some/many people who are not interested in cars per se, and nowadays see them as a commodity, can now drive reliable vehicles that perform well enough for them, aren't inconveniently large, are not theft/vandal magnets and don't necessarily cost much or look impressive.Down here on the S.E coast we have the full spectrum of levels of class / wealth etc . Class is certainly not an indicator of wealth but more an indicator of breeding and upbringing.
Family friend is a minor royal married to a retired oil company director , house worth £1m , car is a middle range Mercedes bought at 2 years old , bog standard and immaculately maintained. They also own a 30s Rolls given to the male by his father on leaving university in the 50s , maintained by a "man " to an amazing standard . Used on high days and holidays and to transport the winners of local posh charity prize outings .
A couple of upper crust areas where if the cars on the drive are modest hatchbacks or saloons will usually indicate older people with old money .
More upmarket 4x4 or SUV tends to indicate newer money and younger owners .
We also have a fair few very upper level properties that are 2nd/3rd homes of very high fliers . These exclusively have big Mercedes estates that turn up a couple of times each year .
The favourites of the middle class seems to be a LR Discovery in a dark colour .those that haven't quite got there yet tend to be in LR Evoques or Freelanders you tend to realise they aren't of the right stuff by the sponsored designer labels sporty clothing ,perma tans and bling eyewear. They also tend to be loud !
Family friend is a minor royal married to a retired oil company director , house worth £1m , car is a middle range Mercedes bought at 2 years old , bog standard and immaculately maintained. They also own a 30s Rolls given to the male by his father on leaving university in the 50s , maintained by a "man " to an amazing standard . Used on high days and holidays and to transport the winners of local posh charity prize outings .
A couple of upper crust areas where if the cars on the drive are modest hatchbacks or saloons will usually indicate older people with old money .
More upmarket 4x4 or SUV tends to indicate newer money and younger owners .
We also have a fair few very upper level properties that are 2nd/3rd homes of very high fliers . These exclusively have big Mercedes estates that turn up a couple of times each year .
The favourites of the middle class seems to be a LR Discovery in a dark colour .those that haven't quite got there yet tend to be in LR Evoques or Freelanders you tend to realise they aren't of the right stuff by the sponsored designer labels sporty clothing ,perma tans and bling eyewear. They also tend to be loud !
DonkeyApple said:
As a result, the car no longer serves the purpose of defining a social group as it once did. Which I think is a really good thing.
I think it still does a bit but in different ways - and of course if you're not into cars you will just go for whatever you read in The Telegraph / Guardian.For the lower classes - a newer reg still holds swagger e.g. "I have a 21 plate Meriva" for the middlies - the brand "2nd hand Audi", the uppers - can drive whatever they want because it's cool to do so "Maserati". In London it's so effective to use public transport that you can easily have a convertible as the only car.
Edited by fido on Friday 25th June 11:10
MC Bodge said:
I suspect that it is more the case that some/many people who are not interested in cars per se, and nowadays see them as a commodity, can now drive reliable vehicles that perform well enough for them, aren't inconveniently large, are not theft/vandal magnets and don't necessarily cost much or look impressive.
Yup. Much of the population does exactly this..
It's a common conceit among the noisy egotists on PH and elsewhere who spend every penny they can scratch together on expensive cars, watches and phones in order to show off their wealth that everybody else invariably does the same. They make that assumption as doing so gives them a little thrill of pride every time they see an inferior car or watch or phone to their own because that's the measure they crave to see how well they are doing at the Game of Life compared to everybody else.
Not only does that fallacy completely ignore the fact that not everybody wants to play the Game but it also ignores the irony that actually spending every penny you've got to show off your wealth means in reality you're not wealthy at all - you're completely skint. The concept that somebody may have a stack of cash readily available to spend on anything they desire but what they actually desire is nothing more than a cheap watch and phone or a budget Eurobox is entirely incomprehensible to such people.
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Jaguar steve said:
It's a common conceit among the noisy egotists on PH and elsewhere who spend every penny they can scratch together on expensive cars, watches and phones in order to show off their wealth that everybody else invariably does the same.
Steve, how do you know they spend every penny they can scratch together ? How do you know it's to show off their wealth?People who can easily afford more than a banger don't do it to upset you, don't be so defensive. Surely, you're more intelligent than that and I firmly believe that even your intense bitterness can't affect your ability to think to such an extent.
I don't own a watch, I have a £167 Huawei phone. Do I still belong to the PH group you despise because I don't have a banger?
Is this a binary proposition?
nickfrog said:
Steve, how do you know they spend every penny they can scratch together ? How do you know it's to show off their wealth?
People who can easily afford more than a banger don't do it to upset you, don't be so defensive. Surely, you're more intelligent than that and I firmly believe that even your intense bitterness can't affect your ability to think to such an extent.
I don't own a watch, I have a £167 Huawei phone. Do I still belong to the PH group you despise because I don't have a banger?
Is this a binary proposition?
No it's not binary - there's degrees of course.People who can easily afford more than a banger don't do it to upset you, don't be so defensive. Surely, you're more intelligent than that and I firmly believe that even your intense bitterness can't affect your ability to think to such an extent.
I don't own a watch, I have a £167 Huawei phone. Do I still belong to the PH group you despise because I don't have a banger?
Is this a binary proposition?
But life experience, negotiating with hundreds of clients on showcase projects and conversations with friends who work in finance and wealth management - and of course living in Essex - assures me there's definitely a Loadsamoney ethos among certain sectors of spending to the max for no other reason than to show off.
My phone is an ancient £10 Nokia. I own two gifted watches but neither have been out of their boxes for at least 30 years because of what they'll represent to the Loadsamoney people and my abhorrence of being categorised by what I own. That works for me, but what doesn't work at all is when people consider you're some sort of inferior person and look down at you because you're not buying into the same ostentatious materialism and surrounding yourself with Bling like they do.
I'm of the mind the reason why anybody owns things is just as relevant as what things they own. Whatever those things may be if they're acquired entirely for for the purchaser that's one matter and entirely different from those ego-led purchases that are bought to mostly or solely impress others.
nickfrog said:
Jaguar steve said:
It's a common conceit among the noisy egotists on PH and elsewhere who spend every penny they can scratch together on expensive cars, watches and phones in order to show off their wealth that everybody else invariably does the same.
Steve, how do you know they spend every penny they can scratch together ? How do you know it's to show off their wealth?People who can easily afford more than a banger don't do it to upset you, don't be so defensive. Surely, you're more intelligent than that and I firmly believe that even your intense bitterness can't affect your ability to think to such an extent.
I don't own a watch, I have a £167 Huawei phone. Do I still belong to the PH group you despise because I don't have a banger?
Is this a binary proposition?
If you are not one of the people described above, which doesn't include everybody who owns an expensive car, it was obviously not aimed at you.
MC Bodge said:
I suspect that it is more the case that some/many people who are not interested in cars per se, and nowadays see them as a commodity, can now drive reliable vehicles that perform well enough for them, aren't inconveniently large, are not theft/vandal magnets and don't necessarily cost much or look impressive.
OK, separate question - ignoring class/wealth signifiers, what car do you see on the road and think "that guy must be a proper car enthusiast" or "he/she must be into their cars"E39 5-series?
MX5?
Anything 30+ years old?
Anything Alfa or Saab?
Anything Lotus?
None of these cars are something you buy accidentally or because you just want cheap transport.
Jaguar steve said:
- and of course living in Essex - assures me there's definitely a Loadsamoney ethos among certain sectors of spending to the max for no other reason than to show off.
Of course there is. No one ever said otherwise.Can you however accept that on a driving and car centric forum some people will spend decent money on cars because they're into driving and into cars? And that they don't do it to upset you, or to show off. And that proportion of people may be far greater than in the general population, particularly in Essex.
I think the "scratching every last penny to show off" is a myth.
Jaguar steve said:
nickfrog said:
Steve, how do you know they spend every penny they can scratch together ? How do you know it's to show off their wealth?
People who can easily afford more than a banger don't do it to upset you, don't be so defensive. Surely, you're more intelligent than that and I firmly believe that even your intense bitterness can't affect your ability to think to such an extent.
I don't own a watch, I have a £167 Huawei phone. Do I still belong to the PH group you despise because I don't have a banger?
Is this a binary proposition?
No it's not binary - there's degrees of course.People who can easily afford more than a banger don't do it to upset you, don't be so defensive. Surely, you're more intelligent than that and I firmly believe that even your intense bitterness can't affect your ability to think to such an extent.
I don't own a watch, I have a £167 Huawei phone. Do I still belong to the PH group you despise because I don't have a banger?
Is this a binary proposition?
But life experience, negotiating with hundreds of clients on showcase projects and conversations with friends who work in finance and wealth management - and of course living in Essex - assures me there's definitely a Loadsamoney ethos among certain sectors of spending to the max for no other reason than to show off.
My phone is an ancient £10 Nokia. I own two gifted watches but neither have been out of their boxes for at least 30 years because of what they'll represent to the Loadsamoney people and my abhorrence of being categorised by what I own. That works for me, but what doesn't work at all is when people consider you're some sort of inferior person and look down at you because you're not buying into the same ostentatious materialism and surrounding yourself with Bling like they do.
I'm of the mind the reason why anybody owns things is just as relevant as what things they own. Whatever those things may be if they're acquired entirely for for the purchaser that's one matter and entirely different from those ego-led purchases that are bought to mostly or solely impress others.
Jaguar steve said:
That works for me, but what doesn't work at all is when people consider you're some sort of inferior person and look down at you because you're not buying into the same ostentatious materialism and surrounding yourself with Bling like they do.
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You have had bad experiences of snoberry perhaps, and I am sorry to hear that. It is an horrible trait indeed. .
And I find reverse snobbery at last as pathetic.
Again, a lot of people buy cars for them, not to upset you. There is no need for sweeping statements.
Personnaly I don't even notice what other people spend their money on. You should try it.
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