RE: Ineos shows off Grenadier interior
Discussion
NomduJour said:
Countdown said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the Grenadier has been made but that's because I like cars.
Just a shame they had to “design” a cripplingly-embarrassing Defender rip-off with a Matsui x Huey interior, and then stick it on underpinnings that would have looked archaic in the 1980s. Still, it seems to impress the online action men.
CS Garth said:
This kind of passive aggressive hatred baffles me. Negative mindset (about an entirely subjective topic) and then a pop at people who disagree
I just don’t get the fawning. It offers absolutely nothing new or additional in terms of utility or ability, but its construction will bring inevitable compromises that modern cars don’t have, all with no proper sales/service/parts network and a sub-Chinese-copy exterior.
NomduJour said:
CS Garth said:
This kind of passive aggressive hatred baffles me. Negative mindset (about an entirely subjective topic) and then a pop at people who disagree
I just don’t get the fawning. It offers absolutely nothing new or additional in terms of utility or ability, but its construction will bring inevitable compromises that modern cars don’t have, all with no proper sales/service/parts network and a sub-Chinese-copy exterior.
Top marks for the online action men strawman though.
Tomato said:
phatman5000 said:
Like many, my attention is immediately drawn to the toot button.
Which is - if it is what I think it is - the most important automotive invention since the rubber tyre.
If there's one thing I can't stand, it's some fluff-brained moron blasting a 110dB air horn down a road to say bye to her friend that she's already said bye to - or laughing as their rotten little toddler smashes it for fun in the car park, melting the eardrums of everyone within 100 yards.
They need a toot button.
Which is - if it is what I think it is - the most important automotive invention since the rubber tyre.
If there's one thing I can't stand, it's some fluff-brained moron blasting a 110dB air horn down a road to say bye to her friend that she's already said bye to - or laughing as their rotten little toddler smashes it for fun in the car park, melting the eardrums of everyone within 100 yards.
They need a toot button.
NomduJour said:
CS Garth said:
This kind of passive aggressive hatred baffles me. Negative mindset (about an entirely subjective topic) and then a pop at people who disagree
I just don’t get the fawning. It offers absolutely nothing new or additional in terms of utility or ability, but its construction will bring inevitable compromises that modern cars don’t have, all with no proper sales/service/parts network and a sub-Chinese-copy exterior.
The alternative is some kind of soviet mindset where they just design one car or clock and everyone has it.
Sometimes a product doesn’t have to offer anything new per se - in this instance I would argue they are doing the polar opposite and trying to do something old. It just has to be different.
As to the sales/service/parts network, call me old fashioned but just because they haven’t announced it it doesn’t mean they have overlooked it. They’re smart guys so they will hardly have neglected to think about this (as per my earlier comment I think it will be via a marque hook up possibly with BMW).
NomduJour said:
Can’t see this appearing anywhere near a BMW in a showroom, service maybe. They’ve announced plans to sell via agricultural merchants etc in Australia - the 70 Series is long past it, so that’s probably the place this makes most sense, assuming people take to it.
Agreed and apologies meant service not sales. loskie said:
hyphen said:
the-sharpener said:
Want a British built 4x4?
Want it tough as nails
Want it galvanised
Buy an ibex
https://www.ibexvehicles.com
Hadn't heard of them, So thank you Mr Ibex for dropping by.Want it tough as nails
Want it galvanised
Buy an ibex
https://www.ibexvehicles.com
Are they any good?
if you want a "car" buy something more mainstream with an infotainment screen
The way some people go on you'd think they'd been knocked back for a contract. Properly bitter.
If it does well great, if it doesn't who cares? The only time I'd become even vaguely wound up was if public funds were involved or if it was sinking other projects I did care about.
As it is if a rich man wants a folly and is having fun good for him.
If it does well great, if it doesn't who cares? The only time I'd become even vaguely wound up was if public funds were involved or if it was sinking other projects I did care about.
As it is if a rich man wants a folly and is having fun good for him.
skwdenyer said:
Max_Torque said:
Leithen said:
Personally, I say good luck Jim, and I wish there were more like you. 
But this is exactly the point! There aren't more people doing niche no-real-market cars because you can't even break even doing this.
If there were a nice easy buisness case to build this car:
1) JLR would still be selling the classic Defender
2) Someone else would have already done it
Re (2), the same can be said of almost anything. On that basis, none of the new manufacturers in the last 30 years would ever have started. There’s been saturation in the vehicle market for decades, yet still there is space for newcomers who get their market proposition right.
Andeh1 said:
skwdenyer said:
I disagree with (1) - JLR have negative brand value in this market in much of the world. A newcomer starts with a clean slate.
Re (2), the same can be said of almost anything. On that basis, none of the new manufacturers in the last 30 years would ever have started. There’s been saturation in the vehicle market for decades, yet still there is space for newcomers who get their market proposition right.
.... When people are so wrong you don't even know where to begin!! Re (2), the same can be said of almost anything. On that basis, none of the new manufacturers in the last 30 years would ever have started. There’s been saturation in the vehicle market for decades, yet still there is space for newcomers who get their market proposition right.
As far as LR's market position, the volume of videos like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcluW6rw4rw&ab... are a serious reminder to us that LR have a mountain to climb to be taken seriously by people whose lives depend on them working. There's one well-known YouTube channel that's on their 3rd new Defender after the 1st two were lemons.
Anyhow, neither you nor I have skin in this game. We can revisit this thread in years to come.
Only the first was a lemon.
The second suffered at the hands of an incompetent dealer.
Funnily enough, powerfuluk have videos showing how to install that winch set up at home and didn’t manage to ruin the car.
Those videos have been used by members of the new Defender fb groups from the U.K. to Australia to install winches and no one has managed to mess it up.
This new car is the worst of all worlds.
It’s not a modern 300 tdi 110 like many wanted it to be.
It’s not £25k priced. It’s £40k+.
It’s not built in Britain after the claims of the Welsh assembly factory.
Why would a farmer buy one of these. When he can get nearly 2 D max pick ups for similar price.
With a 5 year warranty and good known reliability.
It’s basically, a fat old shape defender with bmw engines and a s
t dash and roof switches for walts to power wk over but never buy.
And given JLR can’t build the new Defender fast enough to keep up with demand.
I think JLR have aimed the new model perfectly.
I’ve driven a new 110. It’s will be my next LR product I’ll buy.
This things, nope. Why buy this when you can buy the real Classic defender.
The second suffered at the hands of an incompetent dealer.
Funnily enough, powerfuluk have videos showing how to install that winch set up at home and didn’t manage to ruin the car.
Those videos have been used by members of the new Defender fb groups from the U.K. to Australia to install winches and no one has managed to mess it up.
This new car is the worst of all worlds.
It’s not a modern 300 tdi 110 like many wanted it to be.
It’s not £25k priced. It’s £40k+.
It’s not built in Britain after the claims of the Welsh assembly factory.
Why would a farmer buy one of these. When he can get nearly 2 D max pick ups for similar price.
With a 5 year warranty and good known reliability.
It’s basically, a fat old shape defender with bmw engines and a s
t dash and roof switches for walts to power wk over but never buy.And given JLR can’t build the new Defender fast enough to keep up with demand.
I think JLR have aimed the new model perfectly.
I’ve driven a new 110. It’s will be my next LR product I’ll buy.
This things, nope. Why buy this when you can buy the real Classic defender.
Lester H said:
I like it quite a lot, but then, I like planes. However I saw my first Defender new 90 van this week .Chatted to the owner, had a good look all round.I liked that even more.
Quite, it’s perfectly possible to like both. For some reason certain parts of the Land Rover community object to its mere presence. CS Garth said:
Quite, it’s perfectly possible to like both. For some reason certain parts of the Land Rover community object to its mere presence.
I don't think so. I think it's more to do with a lot of people unable to see clearly how it's going to attract 30k buyers a year. It's really just another expensive toy unless they can genuinely make them very cheaply.
In the early days the vitriol emanated from those who saw this as some kind of Brexit champion but they've all evaporated now it's German and not likely to be sold for £20k.
It is difficult to work out what job it does that can't be done some by something that already exists and is cheaper?
DonkeyApple said:
CS Garth said:
Quite, it’s perfectly possible to like both. For some reason certain parts of the Land Rover community object to its mere presence.
I don't think so. I think it's more to do with a lot of people unable to see clearly how it's going to attract 30k buyers a year. It's really just another expensive toy unless they can genuinely make them very cheaply.
In the early days the vitriol emanated from those who saw this as some kind of Brexit champion but they've all evaporated now it's German and not likely to be sold for £20k.
It is difficult to work out what job it does that can't be done some by something that already exists and is cheaper?
The Brexit point is an interesting one - I’d suggest for many they are playing the man and not the ball. If people, presumably Brexit voters, feel let down by him and possibly a bit stupid for believing his vision of vehicle handcrafted in Albion then that’s their prerogative. To then turn this into hate against the vehicle just makes them look like petty Little Englanders.
For those of us who strongly suspected this wasn’t feasible, and you must surely number amongst them, it’s a moot point.
As for the raison d’etre and the sales, of course this can be discussed but ultimately the bloke with the cheque book gets to spend his money as he wishes and back himself. If a few people on the internet can’t get the numbers to stack up but he thinks he can then good luck to the bloke.
CS Garth said:
Lester H said:
I like it quite a lot, but then, I like planes. However I saw my first Defender new 90 van this week .Chatted to the owner, had a good look all round.I liked that even more.
Quite, it’s perfectly possible to like both. For some reason certain parts of the Land Rover community object to its mere presence. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff