The Joy of Running an Old Shed (Vol 2)

[r3g]

7 5 7 said:

Someone please turn me away from an Insignia diesel Tourer, they tick so many boxes, and are quite truly well into shed territory - they are so cheap, you could run the 'diesel' risks, and if st hits the fan, scrap it and buy another one!! Tax, MPG, heft, modern, safe, load holding....

1.8 petrols are ok, but the tax is getting on for £305 now, seems like a lot for such low price car - yes, cheaper to run probably overall, but the cheaper tax cant be sniffed at at this level, really a tricky balance for shedders I think.

My Vectra is still plodding on, but the more miles I am doing in it, the more I want something a little bit more more modern to sit in as I am in my car alot.

Is a diesel one, just to risky....at this level

Edited by 7 5 7 on Monday 15th April 10:24

People get rid of diesels when something is wrong with them and try to offload them onto someone else before they have to shell out ££££s to fix it. A mate of mine bought a cheap one and the cam chain snapped on it a week later. Luckily didn't take the engine, but ££££ later he's had endless running issues caused by blocked injectors, EGR, DPF and some issue to do with the sump oil pick-up and also has a nasty rattling and juddering DMF. But you can get the exact same problems on any reasonably modern diesel these days. How brave are you feeling?

[QBee]

I got thoroughly put off cars in the £7,000 to £10,000 bracket about 10 years ago.

I had some spare cash, and had always kept my purchases of daily drivers below the £5,000 mark, so decided to splash out a little.
£8,000 on an Audi A8, £7,800 on a Volvo XC90.
Both had endless electrical and mechanical issues and were in the end scrapped because I couldn't get the problems fixed for what the cars were worth.

Now I limit myself to cars under £2,500, and two of the three were under £1,000. I haven't had any more expense than with the more expensive ones, and my ego is not bothered by running around in old sheds. Comfort is no problem - the cheaper and older cars are properly built Saabs over 20 years old.

[r3g]

7 5 7 said:

r3g said:

People get rid of diesels when something is wrong with them and try to offload them onto someone else before they have to shell out ££££s to fix it. A mate of mine bought a cheap one and the cam chain snapped on it a week later. Luckily didn't take the engine, but ££££ later he's had endless running issues caused by blocked injectors, EGR, DPF and some issue to do with the sump oil pick-up and also has a nasty rattling and juddering DMF. But you can get the exact same problems on any reasonably modern diesel these days. How brave are you feeling?

Yeah I quite happy plodding on in my ageing petrol for time being, just very tempting at the low price some of these Insignias are, my mechanic keeps telling me to stay away from them and keep what I have, but yeah repair costs at this level is a big (!!) as I am aware of.

VED is the only real issue I have at the moment with petrols, but then most new cars are cicra £150/180+ these days.

One or more of the above from my list going pop will be a bill starting at a minimum of £500 and potentially running to thousands. At the bottom end, that's your petrol VED paid for 18 months.

Personally I'd only entertain a modern-ish diesel if it's pre-adblue and the DPF has been gutted and mapped out. Finding something pre-DPF in good condition now is getting very hard as that's roughly the 2000-2005 era. I'd maybe consider an old Vectra 3.0 V6 on the Y30DT lump (w/o DPF) as I had one of those and it never missed a beat, but most of these are in the scrapyard in the sky now.

The 2.0 CDTI was always a crock of st in the Vauxhall in terms of mpg. I had it in my Astra and you had to nurse it to get into the 50s out of it unless rigidly sticking to 70 on the motorways. Around town it never did more than low 40s. 15-20 years ago there was at least some appeal because diesel was oinly a couple of pence per litre dearer, but with the price of diesel vs petrol now you are not saving anything.

[greenarrow]

r3g said:

One or more of the above from my list going pop will be a bill starting at a minimum of £500 and potentially running to thousands. At the bottom end, that's your petrol VED paid for 18 months.

Personally I'd only entertain a modern-ish diesel if it's pre-adblue and the DPF has been gutted and mapped out. Finding something pre-DPF in good condition now is getting very hard as that's roughly the 2000-2005 era. I'd maybe consider an old Vectra 3.0 V6 on the Y30DT lump (w/o DPF) as I had one of those and it never missed a beat, but most of these are in the scrapyard in the sky now.

The 2.0 CDTI was always a crock of st in the Vauxhall in terms of mpg. I had it in my Astra and you had to nurse it to get into the 50s out of it unless rigidly sticking to 70 on the motorways. Around town it never did more than low 40s. 15-20 years ago there was at least some appeal because diesel was oinly a couple of pence per litre dearer, but with the price of diesel vs petrol now you are not saving anything.

Your experience clearly similar to mine. I felt my Insignia was only good on the motorway or fast A roads. That ridiculously short 1st gear made joining fast roads from standstill a very hazardous experience and it was the easiest engine I have ever experienced to stall. You just couldnt risk pulling away from 2nd below about 2000 RPM. The Insignia felt like a big old bus around town and because it weighed so much, it never felt as punchy, despite its 160BHP as my old Audi A3 TDI 130 did. The 318d I have now however is quite different. Fairly decent 1st gear means no problems off the line and being quite revvy, its happy to hold 4000RPM, even 4500 RPM as it did for me on Saturday! The siggy just ran out of interest above 3500 RPM... Just shows that not all diesels are created equal!!

However, I still feel diesels have their place. Mine did an indicated 60 MPG on Saturday on a 180 mile cross country trip, despite me ragging up all the hills on the A37 near Yeovil. I reckon in the petrol 318i, I would struggle to get above 45 MPG driven in a similar fashion.......as most of my motoring is motorway based I am happy to stick with the devil's juice, for now!!

[maxwellwd]

I very much find that there is a place for diesels still, my two cars are both diesel. One is an XC70 (D4) which is surprisingly good and has been trouble free and the 1.6 Dtec in a civic tourer which has been faultless and is a gem of an engine, whilst being the most economical engine I have ever had, getting 75 mpg on a good run.

[Shnozz]

maxwellwd said:

I very much find that there is a place for diesels still, my two cars are both diesel. One is an XC70 (D4) which is surprisingly good and has been trouble free and the 1.6 Dtec in a civic tourer which has been faultless and is a gem of an engine, whilst being the most economical engine I have ever had, getting 75 mpg on a good run.

I have to regularly run between my home in Leeds and the South Coast of Hampshire. My E250 CDI Merc is a revelation in doing it in utter comfort (aside from the largest of potholes that have now appeared on the A34) and with enough modern tech. Just shy of 300 miles each way and I can do there and back on a tank. I keep pondering a Cayenne (diesel also) for such duties but the Merc is proving a good car to do it monthly.

Probably not considered a shed due to price and tidiness. Replaced my old CLK cab which was shed money but sadly stretched its timing chain, hence the 250 CDI replacement.

It's agricultural in terms of its engine against a BMW (and probably an Audi) but I much prefer the interior (and exterior for that matter). Stayed with another cabrio largely as found the old CLK one really useful for B&Q trips with large items hanging out of it and the fact it wasn't really any more expensive than an equivalent coupe.

[r3g]

What shape / year is your 250 EDI ? I had a ride as a passenger in one once and the ride was absolutely horrendous ! Felt every single pebble on the road and crashed over every patch. It did have "AMG" alloys which may have had something to do with it, but put me right off Mercs.

[Gordon Hill]

Shnozz said:

maxwellwd said:

I very much find that there is a place for diesels still, my two cars are both diesel. One is an XC70 (D4) which is surprisingly good and has been trouble free and the 1.6 Dtec in a civic tourer which has been faultless and is a gem of an engine, whilst being the most economical engine I have ever had, getting 75 mpg on a good run.

I have to regularly run between my home in Leeds and the South Coast of Hampshire. My E250 CDI Merc is a revelation in doing it in utter comfort (aside from the largest of potholes that have now appeared on the A34) and with enough modern tech. Just shy of 300 miles each way and I can do there and back on a tank. I keep pondering a Cayenne (diesel also) for such duties but the Merc is proving a good car to do it monthly.

Probably not considered a shed due to price and tidiness. Replaced my old CLK cab which was shed money but sadly stretched its timing chain, hence the 250 CDI replacement.

It's agricultural in terms of its engine against a BMW (and probably an Audi) but I much prefer the interior (and exterior for that matter). Stayed with another cabrio largely as found the old CLK one really useful for B&Q trips with large items hanging out of it and the fact it wasn't really any more expensive than an equivalent coupe.

I do the same trip as you, although not as often, usually 3 or 4 trips to Dorset and 2 or 3 to the IOW from South Yorkshire. The old E Class laps it up. The 6 cylinder diesel barely gets above 1800 rpm on the motorway and the comfort is lovely. So for these trips alone diesel is perfect.

[Shnozz]

r3g said:

What shape / year is your 250 EDI ? I had a ride as a passenger in one once and the ride was absolutely horrendous ! Felt every single pebble on the road and crashed over every patch. It did have "AMG" alloys which may have had something to do with it, but put me right off Mercs.

Think it’s a 2014 so a decade old. Doesn’t feel that crashy but comparing apples with oranges perhaps as haven’t test drive true comparables of the same era. My pals C220 coupe of similar age is far more crashy by comparison, however. Makes this feel very much a GT car.

[mickythefish]

bought the car Saab 93 Turbo, really nice motor last owner looked after it very well, runs well. just radio doesn't work.

[giblet]

mickythefish said:

bought the car Saab 93 Turbo, really nice motor last owner looked after it very well, runs well. just radio doesn't work.

If you are on Facebook join this group and ask if anyone close to you has Tech2 to recode radio - https://www.facebook.com/share/1nqiQV28z4saZjiW/?m...

[r3g]

Shnozz said:

Think it’s a 2014 so a decade old. Doesn’t feel that crashy but comparing apples with oranges perhaps as haven’t test drive true comparables of the same era. My pals C220 coupe of similar age is far more crashy by comparison, however. Makes this feel very much a GT car.

Is that the E250 CDI in the photo? Confused here as those from a quick look at ebay seem to be about 8 to 10 grand on a 2014, so hardly worthy of "old shed" status imo. Old shed is stuff under £3k ish I'd say, with secondhand prices the way they are currently.

[QBee]

Crashy rides can be entirely down to owners who felt the urge to "fill the wheel arches" thanks to the trend in the motoring press a few years ago.
So they ftted 2 to 3 inch larger wheels with rubber bands for tyres, or worse still, run flat rubber bands, and then were amazed how bad the ride was.
The manufacturer specified tyres with a decently thick profile for a reason - they give a comfy ride. Indecently thick people then mess this up with their cosmetic choices and complain about the pothole handling capabilities.

You can also add to this pain by having the "sport" options, like stiffer suspension and rock hard seats.
I had a C class hire car as a loaner when my Lexus LS400 was in for repair about 20 years ago. It was a "sport" model with bigger wheels and rock hard seats, and in about 30 seconds put me off C class Mercs for the next 15 years. This status of off-puttedness was only revised when I was asked to collect a 2017 C350e with standard wheels and interior for a friend, and got to drive it from Sheffield to Cambridge.

[giblet]

r3g said:

Is that the E250 CDI in the photo? Confused here as those from a quick look at ebay seem to be about 8 to 10 grand on a 2014, so hardly worthy of "old shed" status imo. Old shed is stuff under £3k ish I'd say, with secondhand prices the way they are currently.

Guessing you missed this bit

Shnozz said:

Probably not considered a shed due to price and tidiness. Replaced my old CLK cab which was shed money but sadly stretched its timing chain, hence the 250 CDI replacement.

It’s been discussed to death many a time before on here but shed is a mix of price and mentality. I’ve met people who have treated brand new cars as sheds and others that have old cheap things that they are particular about. It varies

[7 5 7]

giblet said:

It’s been discussed to death many a time before on here but shed is a mix of price and mentality. I’ve met people who have treated brand new cars as sheds and others that have old cheap things that they are particular about. It varies

Very true, but it's even more shed points, in shed circles, when an old, battered, hazy-eyed car with cataract headlights just keeps on going mechanically - like a loyal, dirty, stinky but lovable family labrador.

It's the middle finger up to the consumerist nature of this country, and doing our own thing - but yes it comes in different strengths, but to me this is the pureness of running a shed - but price needs to be less than the average wage a month in the UK (£2,333...by my Googling)

[bearman68]

7 5 7 said:

Someone please turn me away from an Insignia diesel Tourer, they tick so many boxes, and are quite truly well into shed territory - they are so cheap, you could run the 'diesel' risks, and if st hits the fan, scrap it and buy another one!! Tax, MPG, heft, modern, safe, load holding....

1.8 petrols are ok, but the tax is getting on for £305 now, seems like a lot for such low price car - yes, cheaper to run probably overall, but the cheaper tax cant be sniffed at at this level, really a tricky balance for shedders I think.

My Vectra is still plodding on, but the more miles I am doing in it, the more I want something a little bit more more modern to sit in as I am in my car alot.

Is a diesel one, just to risky....at this level

Edited by 7 5 7 on Monday 15th April 10:24

Ach, Vauxhalls. My most current pain in the butt. My 1.8 Astra has just blown the head gasket after £500 worth of parts, including 4 new tyres. And I failed to get the Zafira running, and just scrapped it. My last 5 recoveries for non paying customers have been on Vauxhalls, and I have concluded the brand is just a bit too much trouble.
However, the Insignia I have (2.0 diesel) is pretty good. I've put tyres and brakes and oil in it, and it seems OK. But beware, because these engines in the Insignia have a terrible rep for blowing up. The problem is the seal between the sump and the oil pump. Seal failure results in emulsified oil in the big ends, and a written off engine. The solution is to fit an £14 ebay mod. The downside is the sump is quite difficult and time consuming to remove, mainly due to the 2 small bolts next to the gearbox
Don't forget there is a cam belt on there as well, and these have been known to fail. Once you price for these jobs, I don't thing they look as attractive as a Laguna 3 diesel to be honest.

[greenarrow]

Gordon Hill said:

I do the same trip as you, although not as often, usually 3 or 4 trips to Dorset and 2 or 3 to the IOW from South Yorkshire. The old E Class laps it up. The 6 cylinder diesel barely gets above 1800 rpm on the motorway and the comfort is lovely. So for these trips alone diesel is perfect.

My work commute (once a month) is Bournemouth area to Liverpool and back. I can concur, re diesel. I own a 14 plate 318d. A bit weedy in the torque department but absolutely effortless on the motorway. I removed the OEM run flat tyres after crashing into one of those A34 pot holes just before Chieveley once too often (makes you jump out of your skin in the dead of night when you can't see the damned things) and with (admittedly far too soft sidewalled) non RFT on the car, these are no longer an issue!

I still don't think you can beat diesel for long motorway trips, or cross country trips the like the one I did to Devon last Saturday tbh. The ability to do 260 miles door to door without a stop and then turnaround to go home without needing a fill up is nice too.

[7 5 7]

greenarrow said:

Gordon Hill said:

I do the same trip as you, although not as often, usually 3 or 4 trips to Dorset and 2 or 3 to the IOW from South Yorkshire. The old E Class laps it up. The 6 cylinder diesel barely gets above 1800 rpm on the motorway and the comfort is lovely. So for these trips alone diesel is perfect.

My work commute (once a month) is Bournemouth area to Liverpool and back. I can concur, re diesel. I own a 14 plate 318d. A bit weedy in the torque department but absolutely effortless on the motorway. I removed the OEM run flat tyres after crashing into one of those A34 pot holes just before Chieveley once too often (makes you jump out of your skin in the dead of night when you can't see the damned things) and with (admittedly far too soft sidewalled) non RFT on the car, these are no longer an issue!

I still don't think you can beat diesel for long motorway trips, or cross country trips the like the one I did to Devon last Saturday tbh. The ability to do 260 miles door to door without a stop and then turnaround to go home without needing a fill up is nice too.

I routinely get 600 miles door-to-door in my petrol Vectra, as your probably aware Greenarrow from my boring Readers ride VX thread - so tbh, I am not sure why I am even thinking about swapping to a diesel in all honesty, even with current fuel prices, and then running the diesel ancillary gauntlet

[7 5 7]

bearman68 said:

Ach, Vauxhalls. My most current pain in the butt. My 1.8 Astra has just blown the head gasket after £500 worth of parts, including 4 new tyres. And I failed to get the Zafira running, and just scrapped it. My last 5 recoveries for non paying customers have been on Vauxhalls, and I have concluded the brand is just a bit too much trouble.
However, the Insignia I have (2.0 diesel) is pretty good. I've put tyres and brakes and oil in it, and it seems OK. But beware, because these engines in the Insignia have a terrible rep for blowing up. The problem is the seal between the sump and the oil pump. Seal failure results in emulsified oil in the big ends, and a written off engine. The solution is to fit an £14 ebay mod. The downside is the sump is quite difficult and time consuming to remove, mainly due to the 2 small bolts next to the gearbox
Don't forget there is a cam belt on there as well, and these have been known to fail. Once you price for these jobs, I don't thing they look as attractive as a Laguna 3 diesel to be honest.

Yes, Bearmann brings me back down to reality, much appreciated last one Bearman, Passat 1.6tdi (2012+).....these are sneaking in also below £2k, are these a safer bet than a leggy Insignia 2.0 CDTI lumps?

[mickythefish]

Well not a good start. Went to start shed up, battery dead. It is a brand new battery but been stood for a bit, just hoping not an electric drain issue. Bought a jump starter and stuck it on charge, and doing what any shedist should do, a 800 mile trip Tomorrow.