Modifying to be illegal?
Discussion
CountVacillate said:
At the end of the day those that enjoy improving their cars performance will continue to.
Your car may appear standard looking but there is no way the authorities are going to check for lighter flywheels, higher static compression, shorter final drives etc etc etc
If it hits the fan it’ll be very disappointing but for those who enjoy things like engine modifications there are still things you could do.
Say if you bought a 6 speed NC model MX5, and wanted it to be more involving you could use a shorter final drive from the 5 speed model, and add a lighter flywheel to improve the fun
You could also use standard suspension from the NC 3.5 to cure the tide height issue. The car still had standard manufacturers suspension.
You could not replace an exhaust manifold but on twin cat cars you could hollow out the main cat in the manifold and usually still pass emissions with the 2nd catalyst in place
I think there will be a market shift, I have already seen aftermarket exhausts for Nissan 350Z’s on sale that are of stock appearance, black paint etc and unassuming.
True. No matter how many laws are introduced there will always be those who honestly believe they are special and can ignore any laws they disagree with.Your car may appear standard looking but there is no way the authorities are going to check for lighter flywheels, higher static compression, shorter final drives etc etc etc
If it hits the fan it’ll be very disappointing but for those who enjoy things like engine modifications there are still things you could do.
Say if you bought a 6 speed NC model MX5, and wanted it to be more involving you could use a shorter final drive from the 5 speed model, and add a lighter flywheel to improve the fun
You could also use standard suspension from the NC 3.5 to cure the tide height issue. The car still had standard manufacturers suspension.
You could not replace an exhaust manifold but on twin cat cars you could hollow out the main cat in the manifold and usually still pass emissions with the 2nd catalyst in place
I think there will be a market shift, I have already seen aftermarket exhausts for Nissan 350Z’s on sale that are of stock appearance, black paint etc and unassuming.
And there will be a market shift as the number of ICE powered cars gradually declines by natural attrition to be replaced by EV's. It won't take long before there are no catalytic converters or DPF filters left to remove, and businesses making such items will stop due to no demand.
NMNeil said:
KTMsm said:
If this becomes law it will reduce it as it will make it harder but the enthusiasts have been modifying regardless of the law and that won't stop
I'm generally against removing choice - remind me exactly how much of the World's pollution do the UK private motorists generate ?
Does it matter, or are you one of those who believes that as you only pollute a little you should be exempt from any laws preventing pollution, and a few fatalities is a reasonable price to pay for your 'freedom' to do as you please?I'm generally against removing choice - remind me exactly how much of the World's pollution do the UK private motorists generate ?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/1...
NMNeil said:
Does it matter, or are you one of those who believes that as you only pollute a little you should be exempt from any laws preventing pollution, and a few fatalities is a reasonable price to pay for your 'freedom' to do as you please?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/1...
Neil, why are you on Pistonheads?https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/1...
Edited by trails on Monday 3rd January 14:11
trails said:
NMNeil said:
Does it matter, or are you one of those who believes that as you only pollute a little you should be exempt from any laws preventing pollution, and a few fatalities is a reasonable price to pay for your 'freedom' to do as you please?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/1...
Neil, what are you on Pistonheads?https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/1...
NMNeil said:
Does it matter, or are you one of those who believes that as you only pollute a little you should be exempt from any laws preventing pollution, and a few fatalities is a reasonable price to pay for your 'freedom' to do as you please?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/1...
Of course it matters, if you want to reduce pollution you start with the biggest polluter first, you are trying to rearrange the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic rather than plugging the holehttps://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/1...
KTMsm said:
Of course it matters, if you want to reduce pollution you start with the biggest polluter first, you are trying to rearrange the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic rather than plugging the hole
No. you start with the easiest sources of pollution to stop. That puts cars at the top, or close to the top of the list.fblm said:
I haven't advocated for removing emmisions controls, I don't know anyone who has,
Open up the search box at the top of the page and type in decatting. I got 594 hits, 640 for DPF removal and 716 for EGR removal. Surely you must know at least one of the posters.Edited by fblm on Sunday 2nd January 15:48
I just checked and the petition against the anti tampering proposal got 107,278 signatures.
After reviewing the comments the response by the government was not unexpected.
"We are not proposing that all modifications be prevented, and we recognise there are legitimate reasons why a vehicle owner or business may want to modify a vehicle. Our proposals are not intended to hinder activities such as motorsports, restoration, repairs, or legitimate improvements and alterations to vehicles, or indeed do any damage to the businesses involved in these activities.
Nevertheless, certain modifications can negatively affect the safety and health of the vehicle owner, its occupants, other road users, and the wider population.
Tampering activities that prevent a vehicle’s emissions system from operating correctly, such as the removal of the diesel particulate filter from a vehicle’s exhaust, can significantly increase a vehicle’s harmful pollutant emissions.
Therefore, as vehicles become increasingly automated, we want to prevent alterations to a vehicle’s integral software and sensing technologies which could create safety and security risks. A badly modified vehicle has the potential to kill its occupants and other road users. It is also essential that we ensure modern vehicles remain cyber secure throughout their lifetime, and that any modifications do not make them vulnerable to malicious cyber-attacks."
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/600954
After reviewing the comments the response by the government was not unexpected.
"We are not proposing that all modifications be prevented, and we recognise there are legitimate reasons why a vehicle owner or business may want to modify a vehicle. Our proposals are not intended to hinder activities such as motorsports, restoration, repairs, or legitimate improvements and alterations to vehicles, or indeed do any damage to the businesses involved in these activities.
Nevertheless, certain modifications can negatively affect the safety and health of the vehicle owner, its occupants, other road users, and the wider population.
Tampering activities that prevent a vehicle’s emissions system from operating correctly, such as the removal of the diesel particulate filter from a vehicle’s exhaust, can significantly increase a vehicle’s harmful pollutant emissions.
Therefore, as vehicles become increasingly automated, we want to prevent alterations to a vehicle’s integral software and sensing technologies which could create safety and security risks. A badly modified vehicle has the potential to kill its occupants and other road users. It is also essential that we ensure modern vehicles remain cyber secure throughout their lifetime, and that any modifications do not make them vulnerable to malicious cyber-attacks."
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/600954
I am not sure kids emit harmful pollutants, and that's without the need for a DPF, the removal of which is essentially what the new regs are trying to combat, as that generates carcinogenic emissions, particularly in urban environments, and which kids with growing lungs are particularly exposed to.
NMNeil said:
Because it's handy to have the opposite viewpoint to the die hard performance at any cost addicts, or the postings would be very boring 
A troll by any other name then...bit sad really, shame you don't just go do something useful.Perhaps this will be enough to stop anyone from responding to you any further on this thread. Fingers crossed 'eh.
trails said:
A troll by any other name then...bit sad really, shame you don't just go do something useful.
Perhaps this will be enough to stop anyone from responding to you any further on this thread. Fingers crossed 'eh.
I don't think a view that modifying should be more heavily restricted is fully at odds with being a petrol head and PHer.Perhaps this will be enough to stop anyone from responding to you any further on this thread. Fingers crossed 'eh.
As systems get more complex, mods do run the risk of bypassing or compromising key systems. That needs attention. I'd trust Alpina to know what they are doing. I'm not sure I trust Daz with his mobile tuning business who piggy backs a hacked unit onto the car.
That said, the more advanced operating systems will just prevent modifications to all except those with extremely deep pockets. The amount that the likes of VW are investing in the next generation of car operating systems, and all that can be done with code (encryption, obfuscation, etc) will effectively end 3rd party mods in my view.
The manufacturers will then monetise modifications for after market services.
e.g Want ludicrous mode on your new Golf R voltz?
That's €500 and a download. We'll monitor it's usage and if more than x times per month then you'll start to impact your warranty, etc.
Want a track day mode? Ditto.
trails said:
NMNeil said:
Because it's handy to have the opposite viewpoint to the die hard performance at any cost addicts, or the postings would be very boring
A troll by any other name then...bit sad really, shame you don't just go do something useful.Perhaps this will be enough to stop anyone from responding to you any further on this thread. Fingers crossed 'eh.
Want a different world? Vote for different politicians.
vaud said:
I don't think a view that modifying should be more heavily restricted is fully at odds with being a petrol head and PHer.
As systems get more complex, mods do run the risk of bypassing or compromising key systems. That needs attention. I'd trust Alpina to know what they are doing. I'm not sure I trust Daz with his mobile tuning business who piggy backs a hacked unit onto the car.
That said, the more advanced operating systems will just prevent modifications to all except those with extremely deep pockets. The amount that the likes of VW are investing in the next generation of car operating systems, and all that can be done with code (encryption, obfuscation, etc) will effectively end 3rd party mods in my view.
The manufacturers will then monetise modifications for after market services.
e.g Want ludicrous mode on your new Golf R voltz?
That's €500 and a download. We'll monitor it's usage and if more than x times per month then you'll start to impact your warranty, etc.
Want a track day mode? Ditto.
My stance; the Government must take sensible precautions around EV's and any modification, particularly in the context of autonomous operation...costly and complex legislation relating to ICE vehicles feels a bit like flogging a dead horse. As systems get more complex, mods do run the risk of bypassing or compromising key systems. That needs attention. I'd trust Alpina to know what they are doing. I'm not sure I trust Daz with his mobile tuning business who piggy backs a hacked unit onto the car.
That said, the more advanced operating systems will just prevent modifications to all except those with extremely deep pockets. The amount that the likes of VW are investing in the next generation of car operating systems, and all that can be done with code (encryption, obfuscation, etc) will effectively end 3rd party mods in my view.
The manufacturers will then monetise modifications for after market services.
e.g Want ludicrous mode on your new Golf R voltz?
That's €500 and a download. We'll monitor it's usage and if more than x times per month then you'll start to impact your warranty, etc.
Want a track day mode? Ditto.
Obviously, I would say that as I like to fettle
Kawasicki said:
trails said:
NMNeil said:
Because it's handy to have the opposite viewpoint to the die hard performance at any cost addicts, or the postings would be very boring
A troll by any other name then...bit sad really, shame you don't just go do something useful.Perhaps this will be enough to stop anyone from responding to you any further on this thread. Fingers crossed 'eh.
Want a different world? Vote for different politicians.
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