Modifying to be illegal?
Discussion
email from Gvt...not had time to watch\read anything yet.
You recently signed the petition “Do not implement proposed new offences for vehicle "tampering"”:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/600954
On Monday 25 April, MPs took part in a debate on vehicle tampering offences, prompted by a petition you signed. The debate was opened by Petitions Committee member Nick Fletcher MP, and Transport Minister Trudy Harrison MP responded for the Government.
Watch the debate:
https://youtu.be/TxV7WyUO9F4
Read the transcript: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-04-25/d...
Read House of Commons Library research on this issue: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...
Opening the debate, Nick Fletcher set out petitioners' concerns, and called on the Government to make sure the proposed new laws are clear about what is meant by 'tampering'. He also said the Government must take steps to ensure the motorsport and classic car sectors are not harmed by these proposals.
Responding to the debate, Transport Minister Trudy Harrison sought to reassure petitioners that the Government does not intend its proposals to prevent legitimate motorsport activities, restoration, repairs or legitimate improvements to vehicles such as classic cars and motorbikes. The Minister said more detail on its plans would be set out in the Government's formal response to its consultation on the Future of Transport, which she said will be published "in the summer".
How petitioners said the proposed offences would affect them
Ahead of the debate, the Committee ran a survey of petitioners asking how these proposed new offences would affect them. We received over 5,600 responses, and a summary was shared with MPs ahead of the debate. Thanks to everyone who took part!
Watch a short video summarising the key findings from the survey:
https://twitter.com/HoCpetitions/status/1518590655...
Read a full summary of what petitioners told us: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/1...
Get involved in the work of the UK Parliament
Sign up to the Your UK Parliament newsletter for the latest information on how to get involved and make a difference: https://parliament.us16.list-manage.com/subscribe?...
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
You recently signed the petition “Do not implement proposed new offences for vehicle "tampering"”:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/600954
On Monday 25 April, MPs took part in a debate on vehicle tampering offences, prompted by a petition you signed. The debate was opened by Petitions Committee member Nick Fletcher MP, and Transport Minister Trudy Harrison MP responded for the Government.
Watch the debate:
https://youtu.be/TxV7WyUO9F4
Read the transcript: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-04-25/d...
Read House of Commons Library research on this issue: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brie...
Opening the debate, Nick Fletcher set out petitioners' concerns, and called on the Government to make sure the proposed new laws are clear about what is meant by 'tampering'. He also said the Government must take steps to ensure the motorsport and classic car sectors are not harmed by these proposals.
Responding to the debate, Transport Minister Trudy Harrison sought to reassure petitioners that the Government does not intend its proposals to prevent legitimate motorsport activities, restoration, repairs or legitimate improvements to vehicles such as classic cars and motorbikes. The Minister said more detail on its plans would be set out in the Government's formal response to its consultation on the Future of Transport, which she said will be published "in the summer".
How petitioners said the proposed offences would affect them
Ahead of the debate, the Committee ran a survey of petitioners asking how these proposed new offences would affect them. We received over 5,600 responses, and a summary was shared with MPs ahead of the debate. Thanks to everyone who took part!
Watch a short video summarising the key findings from the survey:
https://twitter.com/HoCpetitions/status/1518590655...
Read a full summary of what petitioners told us: https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/1...
Get involved in the work of the UK Parliament
Sign up to the Your UK Parliament newsletter for the latest information on how to get involved and make a difference: https://parliament.us16.list-manage.com/subscribe?...
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
I’ve read the transcript and it actually seems like it was a sensible and balanced debate!
Certainly sounds like ‘modifying’ as a whole is unlikely to be outlawed. I tend to agree that anything that could be unsafe for autonomous vehicles, or just generally obnoxious like stupid loud exhausts, should have some level of control.
Certainly sounds like ‘modifying’ as a whole is unlikely to be outlawed. I tend to agree that anything that could be unsafe for autonomous vehicles, or just generally obnoxious like stupid loud exhausts, should have some level of control.
lb3nson said:
I’ve read the transcript and it actually seems like it was a sensible and balanced debate!
Certainly sounds like ‘modifying’ as a whole is unlikely to be outlawed. I tend to agree that anything that could be unsafe for autonomous vehicles, or just generally obnoxious like stupid loud exhausts, should have some level of control.
Me too, I was cautiously/naïvely optimistic that grown up people were talking sensibly about something.Certainly sounds like ‘modifying’ as a whole is unlikely to be outlawed. I tend to agree that anything that could be unsafe for autonomous vehicles, or just generally obnoxious like stupid loud exhausts, should have some level of control.
trails said:
Terminator X said:
From debate yesterday ish:
" I therefore start from the premise that tampering with any part of the system that can increase the original vehicle’s emissions is wrong and should be discouraged. That may include the mapping of cars, which can dump fuel to create popping from the exhaust."
TX.
Brilliant. Thanks VAG " I therefore start from the premise that tampering with any part of the system that can increase the original vehicle’s emissions is wrong and should be discouraged. That may include the mapping of cars, which can dump fuel to create popping from the exhaust."
TX.
liner33 said:
Most modern cars have intergrated audio so bye bye aftermarket units, BMW Ecus are very locked down nowadays they require removing and posting off to a specialist to unlock (only place was in Russia) so don’t be under any illusion that it’s coming
Sorry, didn't see this postAs I said sir, everything is crackable
Everything, sooner or later, it may take 6 months, it may take a year
Even the latest generation BMW ECUs can be unlocked for remapping now
CarCrazyDad said:
Even though a lot of pops and bangs are from timing retardation and a trickle of fuel rather than dumping 100ML of fuel directly into the exhaust (not sure how some people think these pops work)
Beyond showing off in a loutish manner, what's the attraction of pops and bangs? Some are OK, some are extreme, like anything
My son has some on his M140i, I think they're from the factory, just a few burbles for a second or so, not the gun shots you may think of - I quite like them , makes me feel young again !
In any event, I'm sure the motorists who like their extreme pops and bangs think similarly about some of your preferences - if we all liked the same thing life would be boring.
My son has some on his M140i, I think they're from the factory, just a few burbles for a second or so, not the gun shots you may think of - I quite like them , makes me feel young again !
In any event, I'm sure the motorists who like their extreme pops and bangs think similarly about some of your preferences - if we all liked the same thing life would be boring.
CarCrazyDad said:
Some are OK, some are extreme, like anything
My son has some on his M140i, I think they're from the factory, just a few burbles for a second or so, not the gun shots you may think of - I quite like them , makes me feel young again !
In any event, I'm sure the motorists who like their extreme pops and bangs think similarly about some of your preferences - if we all liked the same thing life would be boring.
There is a difference between preference and what is socially acceptable though.My son has some on his M140i, I think they're from the factory, just a few burbles for a second or so, not the gun shots you may think of - I quite like them , makes me feel young again !
In any event, I'm sure the motorists who like their extreme pops and bangs think similarly about some of your preferences - if we all liked the same thing life would be boring.
Burbles, pops etc are fine at a certain volume or on a racetrack. Some of the aftermarket maps/exhausts/GPF deletes however are just anti-social and annoying, especially at night in built up areas.
lb3nson said:
There is a difference between preference and what is socially acceptable though.
Burbles, pops etc are fine at a certain volume or on a racetrack. Some of the aftermarket maps/exhausts/GPF deletes however are just anti-social and annoying, especially at night in built up areas.
That may be true, the loudest car where I live is a Jaguar F Type convertible.Burbles, pops etc are fine at a certain volume or on a racetrack. Some of the aftermarket maps/exhausts/GPF deletes however are just anti-social and annoying, especially at night in built up areas.
No idea who the owner is but I can hear it coming a mile away, don't know if it's standard or not
There are a few modified cars around (Golf R and the like) and they can make a noise but I tend to hear the sound of the Jag more
All too often these types of discussions crumble into an "anti remap" / "anti modification" debate all while the elderly (myself included) members forget we also put throttle bodies on Mk1 Escorts and did silly things to exhausts as well , only that we didn't have the internet to listen to our neighbours complain on
Even with the odd noisy car these days compared to how loud some cars from the 60s/70s/80s were I think the overall trend is towards a quieter street,
Besides most modern cars have switchable exhausts which is great !
Terminator X said:
From debate yesterday ish:
" I therefore start from the premise that tampering with any part of the system that can increase the original vehicle’s emissions is wrong and should be discouraged. That may include the mapping of cars, which can dump fuel to create popping from the exhaust."
TX.
Full quote...gives a bit more context rather than turning this into tabloid quote.." I therefore start from the premise that tampering with any part of the system that can increase the original vehicle’s emissions is wrong and should be discouraged. That may include the mapping of cars, which can dump fuel to create popping from the exhaust."
TX.
"We need clarification of what is classed as tampering. Good tampering should not be made an offence. I am a believer in climate change and that we must act to mitigate its worst effects. I therefore start from the premise that tampering with any part of the system that can increase the original vehicle’s emissions is wrong and should be discouraged. That may include the mapping of cars, which can dump fuel to create popping from the exhaust. If a system creates just a little more noise than first intended but does not break current noise regulations, that is fine, but we must have regard to climate change and look after our planet."
crofty1984 said:
lb3nson said:
I’ve read the transcript and it actually seems like it was a sensible and balanced debate!
Certainly sounds like ‘modifying’ as a whole is unlikely to be outlawed. I tend to agree that anything that could be unsafe for autonomous vehicles, or just generally obnoxious like stupid loud exhausts, should have some level of control.
Me too, I was cautiously/naïvely optimistic that grown up people were talking sensibly about something.Certainly sounds like ‘modifying’ as a whole is unlikely to be outlawed. I tend to agree that anything that could be unsafe for autonomous vehicles, or just generally obnoxious like stupid loud exhausts, should have some level of control.
A wait of some 'months' before we see anything further then.
trails said:
Read the transcript: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-04-25/d...
I really like the reply from Steve Baker!Debaser said:
I really like the reply from Steve Baker!
Me too, and I think he's generally been one of the biggest c***s in the country over the last six or seven years. Weird, huh? The totally fatuous point made by Mike Kane, in reply, made my blood boil, however. I can't think of an unmodified car that couldn't do 80 in a 30, if the driver so desired, so why bring modifying into it?bigothunter said:
Beyond showing off in a loutish manner, what's the attraction of pops and bangs?
The Focus ST (with the Volvo 5pot) did it for cylinder cooling to prevent an issue with the notes going over. I think a lot of it stems from growing up watching WRCs with wastegate chatter and anti lag has convinced people it sounds cool. Trends seem to be turning now though.
Nexus Icon said:
Debaser said:
I really like the reply from Steve Baker!
Me too, and I think he's generally been one of the biggest c***s in the country over the last six or seven years. Weird, huh? The totally fatuous point made by Mike Kane, in reply, made my blood boil, however. I can't think of an unmodified car that couldn't do 80 in a 30, if the driver so desired, so why bring modifying into it?otolith said:
There are some really offensive pop and bang maps. Some utter knob in Swindon has an S3 which constantly emits really loud bangs when shuffling in traffic - proper backfires that make people jump.
Not just that, there was a Harley rider next to me at the lights today revving his engine and the noise was utterly horrendous. So loud it wasn't just drowning out my stereo but that you could feel the vibrations. That is the type of thing that should be clamped down on. Imagine having to live on the same street as that.A Winner Is You said:
Not just that, there was a Harley rider next to me at the lights today revving his engine and the noise was utterly horrendous. So loud it wasn't just drowning out my stereo but that you could feel the vibrations. That is the type of thing that should be clamped down on. Imagine having to live on the same street as that.
One of my friends mums has Screaming Eagle pipes on her Harley, which are so loud they almost hurt.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff