Manufacturer Stingieness

Manufacturer Stingieness

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Discussion

Pica-Pica

9,317 posts

55 months

Wednesday
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MattyD803 said:
jamei303 said:
To get any rear interior lights on the Volvo XC40 standard spec you need to add the lighting pack for £950 which amongst other things such as fog lights includes "Multicolour Theatre Lighting, Tailgate Illumination, Front Door Pocket and Front Cupholder Illumination, Rear Reading and Courtesy Lights and Ambient Front Door and Instrument Panel Lighting"
That's hideous. We accepted and lived with it on our £15k (new) C4 Cactus back in 2016....but on a £26k+ Volvo, that's ridiculous. that must only be £25 worth of wiring, housing and bulbs?!?
Most likely the wiring break-out will already be there on the wiring loom anyway.
Manufacturers don’t like complexity, nor do suppliers (anything to minimise mis-builds; but sure, make customers pay for these ‘options’.

donkmeister

4,455 posts

71 months

Wednesday
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bad company said:
donkmeister said:
bad company said:
I bought a new Jaguar XJ8. I have a problem with cold hands so specked the heated steering wheel. It only worked if the heated seats were on so to keep my hands warm I had to fry my behind.

I’ve never gone back to Jaguar.
This raised a smile as possibly the most first world, first world problem I've heard this week...

Bravo sir, bravo. biggrin
Not really:-

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/raynauds/
I wasn't poking fun at Raynaud's syndrome, apologies if it came across as such.

The first world problem part was not being able to set different temperatures for your hands and seat.

donkmeister

4,455 posts

71 months

Wednesday
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Muddle238 said:
It struck me how stingy the Germans can be a while ago. Walking through a car park between rows of cars, it was often the Audi and BMW's that still had their mirrors stuck out. Given that it was standard kit on a 2008 Peugeot I had many years ago to have mirrors fold automatically when you locked the car, it seemed crazy that these so called "premium" branded cars wouldn't fold the mirrors when locked - and these were sub 3-year-old cars.
Possibly stinginess, possibly personal taste when setting up the car. This makes me sound like one of those people who blames everything invented after the starter motor as the reason why drivers are bad, but... I don't like powerfold happening every time I lock the car. So I have autofold turned off. I use my powerfold mirrors when appropriate.

It might be because powerfold mirrors seemed to attract a chavvy "look at me I have foglights" element when they were a bit newer, it might be because cars look gash with the mirrors folded. I can't quite put my finger on it.

Nickbrapp

Original Poster:

4,263 posts

101 months

Wednesday
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donkmeister said:
Muddle238 said:
It struck me how stingy the Germans can be a while ago. Walking through a car park between rows of cars, it was often the Audi and BMW's that still had their mirrors stuck out. Given that it was standard kit on a 2008 Peugeot I had many years ago to have mirrors fold automatically when you locked the car, it seemed crazy that these so called "premium" branded cars wouldn't fold the mirrors when locked - and these were sub 3-year-old cars.
Possibly stinginess, possibly personal taste when setting up the car. This makes me sound like one of those people who blames everything invented after the starter motor as the reason why drivers are bad, but... I don't like powerfold happening every time I lock the car. So I have autofold turned off. I use my powerfold mirrors when appropriate.

It might be because powerfold mirrors seemed to attract a chavvy "look at me I have foglights" element when they were a bit newer, it might be because cars look gash with the mirrors folded. I can't quite put my finger on it.
Oh no. It’s stinginess. Look at the golf you get folding mirrors and adaptive cruise control, on a Audi A3 you get neither of those as standard.

S16KBW

280 posts

36 months

Wednesday
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ChevronB19 said:
At least in the past, some ‘base’ model features must’ve cost more than just using the feature from the higher up model.

For example, base Fiesta Mk1’s didn’t have a glovebox lid. It must’ve cost more to tool the lower dash so it didn’t have hinge and catch slots than it would’ve just to put a glovebox lid on.
This is essentially the same point I made about my 2008 VW Fox, the base model had manual windows rather than electric, but it must have cost them more to design and manufacture manual mechanisms, and design another set of door cards rather than just put electric windows in all of the models!

Nickbrapp

Original Poster:

4,263 posts

101 months

Wednesday
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S16KBW said:
This is essentially the same point I made about my 2008 VW Fox, the base model had manual windows rather than electric, but it must have cost them more to design and manufacture manual mechanisms, and design another set of door cards rather than just put electric windows in all of the models!
I always think that about lights, surely it must cost Ford more to have 5 separate headlight designs made instead of all just having one type.

Same with Audi. Every A1 gets the same lights weather it’s a base sport or a S line, but then the A3 sport and S line have different lights and the edition 1 has another type!

GC8

19,601 posts

161 months

Wednesday
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Costing money to make a more base car can reap rewards from the extra profit made on slightly higher models, with slightly better features, that cost very little to include.

A Winner Is You

23,513 posts

198 months

Wednesday
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Previous model A5 S Line - cruise control, heated seats and parking display were all optional extras

fblm

19,308 posts

234 months

Wednesday
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Nickbrapp said:
Oh no. It’s stinginess. Look at the golf you get folding mirrors and adaptive cruise control, on a Audi A3 you get neither of those as standard.
But I don't want any of that crap on my car. Why should I pay for it?

Leicesterdave

2,130 posts

151 months

Wednesday
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My 2016 SLine TT is very base spec.

No parking sensors, no fancy self dimming interior mirror etc…

It has what I need though.

Quattro
DSG
Cruise
Manual air con

I feel nothing really fancy will break though. Just happy with that

F1GTRUeno

5,249 posts

189 months

Wednesday
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Monkeylegend said:
MonkeyMatt said:
I recently bought a very standard car with no optional extras, the amount of st in it that I don't need is unreal! I wish new cars came with less crap not more!
I agree, all you need is a Dacia Sandero base model, and a perfectly fine car it is if you are not a badge snob.

Makes me smile when posters say a heated steering wheel is a must have deal breaker.
I didn't think it would be but now having the option of putting it on I'm not sure I wanna go back to a car with it unavailable biggrin

Same with heated seats and automatic/electric stuff. I've had cars without that stuff but once you get one with it all, it's hard to say no again.

fblm

19,308 posts

234 months

Wednesday
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F1GTRUeno said:
I didn't think it would be but now having the option of putting it on I'm not sure I wanna go back to a car with it unavailable biggrin

Same with heated seats and automatic/electric stuff. I've had cars without that stuff but once you get one with it all, it's hard to say no again.
Conversely I have cars with all that guff and never use any of it. If I could unspec it and pay less I would have. The problem is where you draw the line on what is essential. For 500 quid my friend specced ambient lighting that lets you tell the car to change the colour of the footwell and cup holder lighting. WTF! He loves it. Should we all pay more and get it as standard and pay a few hundred quid more on the base price? Get back to us when some scrote kicks your electric folding wing mirror off and let us know if it was 1500 quid a side essential! hehe

TonyF1

54 posts

23 months

Wednesday
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I find Audi frustrating as they’ve gone away from options to focus on equipment level instead. Only two options I really like which is ACC and memory seats, everything else I can live without.

To get memory seats on an A5 Cabriolet you have got to go with Vorsprung. Identical seats in Edition One but no memory. Roof retract using key fob on Vorsprung only as well. All software only changes and not even available via function on demand.

boxedin

1,124 posts

97 months

Wednesday
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Muddle238 said:
Post relevant to a particular large car park I used to walk through on my way into work. No provision for pedestrian walkways across the rows, so you just walk between vehicles. No biggie, unless the gaps are made tighter by cars with mirrors left extended. I would have expected BMW's and Audi's to have folding mirrors as standard, as the tech has been around for donkeys years, but for some reason they charge extra when the French include it as standard. Hence, the Germans are stingy. I couldn't give a damn about the length of French cars.
Some of us choose to not enable auto-fold on lock. So you can't tell.

Fast Bug

9,757 posts

132 months

Wednesday
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GC8 said:
Nickbrapp said:
No Ad blue gauge
How much Adblue do they use? Surely it is slow enough to not need a gauge, with a low level light still giving you plenty of warning?

I would put 2l./40p of Adblue into an old pop bottle and keep it as a reserve, and problem solved.
I'm fairly sure quite a few vehicles you need to put a minimum amount of adblue in, for some reason I think it's 5 litres? Otherwise it doesn't register at all

Pica-Pica

9,317 posts

55 months

Wednesday
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Leicesterdave said:
My 2016 SLine TT is very base spec.

No parking sensors, no fancy self dimming interior mirror etc…

It has what I need though.

Quattro
DSG
Cruise
Manual air con

I feel nothing really fancy will break though. Just happy with that
Self dimming interior mirrors are certainly not fancy, they have been around for decades, standard mostly and very, very useful. As for automatic air con, far, far better than manual.

kevinon

403 posts

31 months

Wednesday
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Court_S said:
Tony33 said:
My BMW comes with auto headlamp dipping “preparation” as standard. What that means is you have to pay a subscription service to enable what has already been fitted. I guess it makes sense not having to manufacture different versions and simplifies the build process, just remotely enable it from a support centre. Still feels a bit mean, installing the hardware and disabling it through software to be unlocked!

It’s not a new concept. My old Octavia vRS came from the factory with various cameras / sensors fitted but nit enabled unless you paid for the option (eg speed limit sign recognition which I think was a £350 option). If you had / knew someone with VCDS it just needed switching on.

The savings in terms of standardising production lines obviously far outweighs the cost of the components for things like CarPlay, speed limit recognition etc.
Indeed, it's not a new concept. Way back in the era of mainframe computers, manufacturers like IBM would ship a more comprehensive computer than ordered, and when an 'upgrade' was needed the visiting engineers just 'enabled' what was there.

It was called 'the golden screwdriver' - so same concept as we are talking about here, except it required a visit.

Nickbrapp

Original Poster:

4,263 posts

101 months

Wednesday
quotequote all
Fast Bug said:
GC8 said:
Nickbrapp said:
No Ad blue gauge
How much Adblue do they use? Surely it is slow enough to not need a gauge, with a low level light still giving you plenty of warning?

I would put 2l./40p of Adblue into an old pop bottle and keep it as a reserve, and problem solved.
I'm fairly sure quite a few vehicles you need to put a minimum amount of adblue in, for some reason I think it's 5 litres? Otherwise it doesn't register at all
I put 10L in and it lasts about 2500-3000 miles at most (so a month for me)

donkmeister

4,455 posts

71 months

Wednesday
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kevinon said:
Indeed, it's not a new concept. Way back in the era of mainframe computers, manufacturers like IBM would ship a more comprehensive computer than ordered, and when an 'upgrade' was needed the visiting engineers just 'enabled' what was there.

It was called 'the golden screwdriver' - so same concept as we are talking about here, except it required a visit.
Bagwell, is that you?

Leicesterdave

2,130 posts

151 months

Wednesday
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Pica-Pica said:
Self dimming interior mirrors are certainly not fancy, they have been around for decades, standard mostly and very, very useful. As for automatic air con, far, far better than manual.
Manual aircon does just fine- I’d go as far as to say I prefer it