RE: 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 GTX Max | PH Review

[ajap1979]

David87 said:

White-Noise said:

I don't know why this is being compared to a model 3, it's comparing a saloon and a small suv, they're different cars!?

Compare it with a Model Y then. It's still expensive and slow.

Is the Model Y better value for money?

[TheDeuce]

ajap1979 said:

David87 said:

White-Noise said:

I don't know why this is being compared to a model 3, it's comparing a saloon and a small suv, they're different cars!?

Compare it with a Model Y then. It's still expensive and slow.

Is the Model Y better value for money?

Taking power, range and kit in to account, yes.

I genuinely don't know who the ID4 is supposed to appeal to. It's just an expensive way of buying a slower EV than the competition will gladly sell to you - and that's based on alternatives that offer the same sort of footprint and practicality too.

Mind blown that they've gone and highlighted the expensive lack of power by releasing this new version with its 'sporty additions' to the trim and bodywork. Why? Why draw attention to the shortcomings

All a bit weird VW..

[samoht]

G7G said:

"EVs that sit you too close to the floor" really ? Is that a joke ?
I'm still looking for one (Porsche Taycan excepted) where the sitting position is not too elevated. I drive a Tesla 3 and would love to have lower seats.

The article is referring to the floor as in the floor of the interior of the car, rather than the ground. Since the batteries are under the floor, it ends up higher than usual.

In some EVs this results in a 'knees up' seating position, since your feet are higher but the seat base isn't. In other cases the seat itself is set higher, which gives a more normal seating posture, but then you either run out of headroom or raise the roofline, hurting range and sex appeal.

With underfloor batteries you have to choose your compromises, basically.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

cerb4.5lee said:

TheMilkyBarKid said:

This has all the desirability of the Ssangyong Rhodius. Ghastly

I don't understand why a lot of manufacturers feel the need to make electric cars look so different(read ugly) to ICE cars. I find it all very odd.

I personally like a car to be fairly easy on the eyes, whereas the majority of electric cars look like dog st for me.

It’s not just the way it looks though Lee. I just find it so utterly, wilfully bland. If you really want an EV the Polestar 2 or Tesla M3 are better to drive and you at least have the amusement of warp speed acceleration to cheer you up about the lack of an ICE. If you want an EV SUV Kia, Hyundai and a 2 year old Jag iPace all do it better. And if you want an ICE SUV or family car there are literally hundreds of more interesting, enjoyable and better looking options for the money/equivalent monthly lease.

Or have a weekend fun car AND a family wagon for the same cash. I just can’t understand why anyone would spend over £50K on something so deeply average. VW will probably shift millions of them though so what do I know!

Edited by TheMilkyBarKid on Friday 26th November 15:04

[ajap1979]

TheDeuce said:

Taking power, range and kit in to account, yes.

I genuinely don't know who the ID4 is supposed to appeal to. It's just an expensive way of buying a slower EV than the competition will gladly sell to you - and that's based on alternatives that offer the same sort of footprint and practicality too.

Mind blown that they've gone and highlighted the expensive lack of power by releasing this new version with its 'sporty additions' to the trim and bodywork. Why? Why draw attention to the shortcomings

All a bit weird VW..

What kit? The GTX Max is loaded. Or is this just another cliched assumption with no actual knowledge?

[TheDeuce]

ajap1979 said:

TheDeuce said:

Taking power, range and kit in to account, yes.

I genuinely don't know who the ID4 is supposed to appeal to. It's just an expensive way of buying a slower EV than the competition will gladly sell to you - and that's based on alternatives that offer the same sort of footprint and practicality too.

Mind blown that they've gone and highlighted the expensive lack of power by releasing this new version with its 'sporty additions' to the trim and bodywork. Why? Why draw attention to the shortcomings

All a bit weird VW..

What kit? The GTX Max is loaded. Or is this just another cliched assumption with no actual knowledge?

I said price considering kit AND power and range in to account.

The GTX max is indeed very well equipped but it's also £55k basic and that's the very same price as the Model Y long range, which has the same kit, goes faster and further.

Why did you assume I had no knowledge? You appear to be the one making assumptions, not I.

[greggy50]

TheDeuce said:

ajap1979 said:

TheDeuce said:

Taking power, range and kit in to account, yes.

I genuinely don't know who the ID4 is supposed to appeal to. It's just an expensive way of buying a slower EV than the competition will gladly sell to you - and that's based on alternatives that offer the same sort of footprint and practicality too.

Mind blown that they've gone and highlighted the expensive lack of power by releasing this new version with its 'sporty additions' to the trim and bodywork. Why? Why draw attention to the shortcomings

All a bit weird VW..

What kit? The GTX Max is loaded. Or is this just another cliched assumption with no actual knowledge?

I said price considering kit AND power and range in to account.

The GTX max is indeed very well equipped but it's also £55k basic and that's the very same price as the Model Y long range, which has the same kit, goes faster and further.

Why did you assume I had no knowledge? You appear to be the one making assumptions, not I.

I don't see the range/performance as an issue as it plenty for a daily driver. I run a Polestar 2 which is similar to a Model 3 LR performance wise and its too much for the road most of the time to be honest...

The biggest issue for the ID4 is the interior as it isn't that good quality wise and the infotainment is st so its a poor all rounder for the cash. At least with the Model Y it has good range and is quick to make up for the fact the interior is still lacking for the price.

As I have said a couple of times Q4 E-Tron makes more sense as the interior is better and actually has dedicated buttons for the climate control etc. whilst being the more attractive car and having a "premium" badge whilst effectively costing no more. A 300bhp S Line is £3k less than this GTX Max an an Edition 1 which is loaded is £2k more tops.

I would take an EV6 over all of the above however.

[TheDeuce]

greggy50 said:

I don't see the range/performance as an issue as it plenty for a daily driver. I run a Polestar 2 which is similar to a Model 3 LR performance wise and its too much for the road most of the time to be honest...

The biggest issue for the ID4 is the interior as it isn't that good quality wise and the infotainment is st so its a poor all rounder for the cash. At least with the Model Y it has good range and is quick to make up for the fact the interior is still lacking for the price.

As I have said a couple of times Q4 E-Tron makes more sense as the interior is better and actually has dedicated buttons for the climate control etc. whilst being the more attractive car and having a "premium" badge whilst effectively costing no more. A 300bhp S Line is £3k less than this GTX Max an an Edition 1 which is loaded is £2k more tops.

Indeed - I only commented on range as it is part of the overall comparison, but for sure, both do 'about 300' miles in theory, both are more than enough for most people.

I really don't get the ID4 offering, it seems alarmingly poor value taking all aspects of value in to account. Why dress a car up as the sporty variant when it's clearly at least a second off the pace of other, cheaper EV's that make no such pretention? Weirder still... why not just give it an extra 150hp? The slightly larger motors have very little weight penalty and virtually no impact on range.

As you say, the icing on the cake is that this bizarre car is quite easily bettered by it's far more desirable big brother - and I don't even rate the E-tron that highly either.

[ajap1979]

Perhaps a bit pedantic, but the S-Line needs matrix LED, and the safety and assistance packs to match the ID4 GTX spec, so it does end up being more expensive with the same spec.

[Motormatt]

Roy m said:

Just so I fully understand this - £55k for a car with faulty software, that has compromised control design, and has limited charging capacity and range?

Are the BIK's that good to endure such compromises? Certainly seems to be a car for people that have given up on cars!

I certainly haven't given up on cars but the BIK savings are just too good to ignore if you're able to run an EV as a company car.

I swapped out of a 330d (granted not a very BIK friendly starting point) to an ID3 and the tax saving for me is over £5k a year. That's before I take into account fuel savings on personal mileage too.
The reality is that it spends most of its time ferrying me to work in the day and taxiing my kids around in the evenings, none of which involves any remotely exciting driving, and its very good at what it does. I couldn't justify spending an additional £15k over the next 3 years to stick with a moderately quick ICE car. Appreciate that some might think its a price worth paying though.

[TheDeuce]

ajap1979 said:

Perhaps a bit pedantic, but the S-Line needs matrix LED, and the safety and assistance packs to match the ID4 GTX spec, so it does end up being more expensive with the same spec.

That's definitely a bit pedantic because there will be other benefits of the e-tron which make up for slightly inferior headlights. It's a whole different class of car. As the above poster pointed out, one huge benefit that does carry a real cost to Audi is the inclusion of more physical switches.

In terms of car for your money... I'm sorry but the ID4 in any guise just doesn't stack up that well. I honestly think VW just misjudged the value proposition vs competitors - that can and will happen in the early days of EV. It's then quite difficult to reduce the price because you infuriate existing owners and reduce your brands overall residual value index.

[TheDeuce]

Motormatt said:

Roy m said:

Just so I fully understand this - £55k for a car with faulty software, that has compromised control design, and has limited charging capacity and range?

Are the BIK's that good to endure such compromises? Certainly seems to be a car for people that have given up on cars!

I certainly haven't given up on cars but the BIK savings are just too good to ignore if you're able to run an EV as a company car.

I swapped out of a 330d (granted not a very BIK friendly starting point) to an ID3 and the tax saving for me is over £5k a year. That's before I take into account fuel savings on personal mileage too.
The reality is that it spends most of its time ferrying me to work in the day and taxiing my kids around in the evenings, none of which involves any remotely exciting driving, and its very good at what it does. I couldn't justify spending an additional £15k over the next 3 years to stick with a moderately quick ICE car. Appreciate that some might think its a price worth paying though.

Same, I came from a privately owned 430d GC, I used to bill appropriate mileage to the company, to my current EV. The EV is is a leased, brand new iPace with an 80k plus price tag, and all said and done it's far cheaper overall than the 5 year old 430d was. And comfier, quicker, better equipped etc etc.

I suspect a car such as mine or a Tesla S, E-tron etc through the company with 1% BIK to pay and the vat reclaimed plus the huge fuel savings works out about the same as a new VW golf 2.0 without all the EV related savings would.

[ajap1979]

TheDeuce said:

ajap1979 said:

Perhaps a bit pedantic, but the S-Line needs matrix LED, and the safety and assistance packs to match the ID4 GTX spec, so it does end up being more expensive with the same spec.

That's definitely a bit pedantic because there will be other benefits of the e-tron which make up for slightly inferior headlights. It's a whole different class of car. As the above poster pointed out, one huge benefit that does carry a real cost to Audi is the inclusion of more physical switches.

In terms of car for your money... I'm sorry but the ID4 in any guise just doesn't stack up that well. I honestly think VW just misjudged the value proposition vs competitors - that can and will happen in the early days of EV. It's then quite difficult to reduce the price because you infuriate existing owners and reduce your brands overall residual value index.

More pedantry but aren’t physical switches a purely subjective issue? It personally doesn’t bother me, plus I don’t think the current Audi interiors stand up to scrutiny, they’re below par. I honestly think your judgement is being clouded by some anti-VW bias if you think the Q4 is a whole different class of car, go and have a look at both, drive them both, and I think you’ll have a different opinion. There really not much in between it, the ID.4, and the Enyaq

[TheDeuce]

ajap1979 said:

TheDeuce said:

ajap1979 said:

Perhaps a bit pedantic, but the S-Line needs matrix LED, and the safety and assistance packs to match the ID4 GTX spec, so it does end up being more expensive with the same spec.

That's definitely a bit pedantic because there will be other benefits of the e-tron which make up for slightly inferior headlights. It's a whole different class of car. As the above poster pointed out, one huge benefit that does carry a real cost to Audi is the inclusion of more physical switches.

In terms of car for your money... I'm sorry but the ID4 in any guise just doesn't stack up that well. I honestly think VW just misjudged the value proposition vs competitors - that can and will happen in the early days of EV. It's then quite difficult to reduce the price because you infuriate existing owners and reduce your brands overall residual value index.

More pedantry but aren’t physical switches a purely subjective issue? It personally doesn’t bother me, plus I don’t think the current Audi interiors stand up to scrutiny, they’re below par. I honestly think your judgement is being clouded by some anti-VW bias if you think the Q4 is a whole different class of car, go and have a look at both, drive them both, and I think you’ll have a different opinion. There really not much in between it, the ID.4, and the Enyaq

I'm not at all anti VW. I just don't think the ID4 offers good value at all.

On the issue of switches, it's not subjective in terms of value as it's well know that many people do like physical switches because they're easier to use whist driving. You may not car, but at some point the car has to be re-sold and the next person might. In the end, not having a feature a lot of people like is never a positive in terms of resale value.

It's also very definitely a cost cutting measure by a manufacturer to go down the route of replacing all possible physical switches with touch switches.

The e-tron is literally a different class of car. One is a full size premium SUV. The other, is a compact crossover SUV.

Rather than point at the differences between these cars and/or worry that I'm biased in some way, why don't you make your own comparison between the ID4 GTX Max and other same class, similar price EV's and explain why it is good value for money? You obviously believe it is, so I would be interested in knowing what value you see that I'm missing.

[CDP]

ajap1979 said:

More pedantry but aren’t physical switches a purely subjective issue? It personally doesn’t bother me, plus I don’t think the current Audi interiors stand up to scrutiny, they’re below par. I honestly think your judgement is being clouded by some anti-VW bias if you think the Q4 is a whole different class of car, go and have a look at both, drive them both, and I think you’ll have a different opinion. There really not much in between it, the ID.4, and the Enyaq

Real switches and particularly knobs are a lot better because if they are properly placed you don't need to look for them. This is a genuine safety benefit.

[Panamax]

Mr E said:

Roy m said:

Are the BIK's that good to endure such compromises?

Yes

That's the bottom line with these things. IMO Mr and Mrs average shouldn't be fooled by seeing these vehicles on the road and thinking "I'd like one". Without the huge government/HMRC subsidies they're hard to justify.

[SidewaysSi]

Panamax said:

Mr E said:

Roy m said:

Are the BIK's that good to endure such compromises?

Yes

That's the bottom line with these things. IMO Mr and Mrs average shouldn't be fooled by seeing these vehicles on the road and thinking "I'd like one". Without the huge government/HMRC subsidies they're hard to justify.

Exactly. Usually bought by people who are too poor/cheap to own anything decent.

[ajap1979]

TheDeuce said:

ajap1979 said:

TheDeuce said:

ajap1979 said:

Perhaps a bit pedantic, but the S-Line needs matrix LED, and the safety and assistance packs to match the ID4 GTX spec, so it does end up being more expensive with the same spec.

That's definitely a bit pedantic because there will be other benefits of the e-tron which make up for slightly inferior headlights. It's a whole different class of car. As the above poster pointed out, one huge benefit that does carry a real cost to Audi is the inclusion of more physical switches.

In terms of car for your money... I'm sorry but the ID4 in any guise just doesn't stack up that well. I honestly think VW just misjudged the value proposition vs competitors - that can and will happen in the early days of EV. It's then quite difficult to reduce the price because you infuriate existing owners and reduce your brands overall residual value index.

More pedantry but aren’t physical switches a purely subjective issue? It personally doesn’t bother me, plus I don’t think the current Audi interiors stand up to scrutiny, they’re below par. I honestly think your judgement is being clouded by some anti-VW bias if you think the Q4 is a whole different class of car, go and have a look at both, drive them both, and I think you’ll have a different opinion. There really not much in between it, the ID.4, and the Enyaq

I'm not at all anti VW. I just don't think the ID4 offers good value at all.

On the issue of switches, it's not subjective in terms of value as it's well know that many people do like physical switches because they're easier to use whist driving. You may not car, but at some point the car has to be re-sold and the next person might. In the end, not having a feature a lot of people like is never a positive in terms of resale value.

It's also very definitely a cost cutting measure by a manufacturer to go down the route of replacing all possible physical switches with touch switches.

The e-tron is literally a different class of car. One is a full size premium SUV. The other, is a compact crossover SUV.

Rather than point at the differences between these cars and/or worry that I'm biased in some way, why don't you make your own comparison between the ID4 GTX Max and other same class, similar price EV's and explain why it is good value for money? You obviously believe it is, so I would be interested in knowing what value you see that I'm missing.

Are we actually talking about the same car? The Q4 E-Tron?

[cerb4.5lee]

TheMilkyBarKid said:

cerb4.5lee said:

TheMilkyBarKid said:

This has all the desirability of the Ssangyong Rhodius. Ghastly

I don't understand why a lot of manufacturers feel the need to make electric cars look so different(read ugly) to ICE cars. I find it all very odd.

I personally like a car to be fairly easy on the eyes, whereas the majority of electric cars look like dog st for me.

It’s not just the way it looks though Lee. I just find it so utterly, wilfully bland. If you really want an EV the Polestar 2 or Tesla M3 are better to drive and you at least have the amusement of warp speed acceleration to cheer you up about the lack of an ICE. If you want an EV SUV Kia, Hyundai and a 2 year old Jag iPace all do it better. And if you want an ICE SUV or family car there are literally hundreds of more interesting, enjoyable and better looking options for the money/equivalent monthly lease.

Or have a weekend fun car AND a family wagon for the same cash. I just can’t understand why anyone would spend over £50K on something so deeply average. VW will probably shift millions of them though so what do I know!

Edited by TheMilkyBarKid on Friday 26th November 15:04

Yes and I agree with you completely Martyn.

In many ways this just isn't a PH car I reckon, and there are so many better ways of doing it for the money as you mention. I guess that it will keep someone happy though, and we all look for different things with cars.

It certainly isn't my cup of tea though for sure. If I walked onto the drive and saw this on it every morning...I'd want to shoot myself to be honest!

[JonChalk]

greggy50 said:

I would take an EV6 over all of the above however.

Smart choice - I'm upgrading from an ID.3 to an EV6 - the ID.4 was never on the radar.