RE: One-owner Subaru Impreza RB5 for sale
Discussion
Must be a heck of alot of idiots about then as prices being paid for decent low mileage low owner classic Japanese stuff nowadays is eyewatering.The Richard Burns thing might mean alot to say a late 40 something company owner who was an RB fan and they'll not care a jot it has the goodies of an import STI,they'll always be someone who's willing to paying the money,if you want to call them idiots then fair enough...a friend told me 3 years ago I was an idiot to consider paying 24k for a mint low miles red TME,I left it in the end,silly me!
Scobblelotcher said:
The RB5 did have a solid rear bulkhead. I owned two and both had it. I seem to remember the RB5 had the STi 5 body but not 100% on that. Maybe some of the first cars didn’t or were repaired?
No Impreza has a solid rear bulkhead.That term was used when the car had a small amount of extra bracing around the edge of the rear strut tower and parcel shelf steel work, which meant the rear seats were in a fixed position, rather than using the fold down rear seats. The STi models also had an extra steel bar that went right across the back of the seat.
These are from my Impreza WRX STi5 Type RA 555 WRC Limited back in the day, when i installed a Cusco rear strut brace.
These are the RB5 press photos
And this is the press release
jsf said:
Scobblelotcher said:
The RB5 did have a solid rear bulkhead. I owned two and both had it. I seem to remember the RB5 had the STi 5 body but not 100% on that. Maybe some of the first cars didn’t or were repaired?
No Impreza has a solid rear bulkhead.That term was used when the car had a small amount of extra bracing around the edge of the rear strut tower and parcel shelf steel work, which meant the rear seats were in a fixed position, rather than using the fold down rear seats. The STi models also had an extra steel bar that went right across the back of the seat.
These are from my Impreza WRX STi5 Type RA 555 WRC Limited back in the day, when i installed a Cusco rear strut brace.
These are the RB5 press photos
And this is the press release
Chunkychucky said:
As for the WR1 of which you make mention, my friend chopped his in after 6 months, passing the chassis off as unresolved for our roads and the adjustable centre diff as merely a gimmick, pointless for the road. Interesting seeing cars I have experience of being 'overhyped' in the marketplace, and hilarious comparing what I/others from the time think they're worth vs. what chancers are advertising them for now!
The WR1 was the first UK model to have DCCD-A, it used an AP suretrack front LSD rather than the usual STi Helical fitted to the JDM model. That produced more torque steer and a slightly less direct front end, but is still a decent setup. The first time i drove the WR1 (number 2) was at Elvington so lots of open space to play with, it was a fantastic improvement over the normal UK spec STi, you just need to know what you are doing to get them to dance.Driving an Impreza (any permanent AWD car really) is all about timing, the biggest issue is being too early on the throttle, if you don't allow the car to rotate and get on the power too soon, they have a tendency to understeer (simple physics), if you get the timing correct you can exit on full power with a slight oversteer. Cars with the Auto DCCD are fantastic when you do this properly, they have huge grip and corner exit speed and generate a level of G in lateral and longitudinal directions you dont usually feel on a road car.
The MY05 system is better, Subaru added a Yaw sensor to the control system and changed the diff mapping to suit, so you can push them harder, but even the earlier spec setup is good when you learn to drive it properly.
evojam said:
Must be a heck of alot of idiots about then as prices being paid for decent low mileage low owner classic Japanese stuff nowadays is eyewatering.The Richard Burns thing might mean alot to say a late 40 something company owner who was an RB fan and they'll not care a jot it has the goodies of an import STI,they'll always be someone who's willing to paying the money,if you want to call them idiots then fair enough...a friend told me 3 years ago I was an idiot to consider paying 24k for a mint low miles red TME,I left it in the end,silly me!
It's not a low mileage classic Japanese car though. It's not even JDM. It's a UK 2000 with some paint and stickers and a few options ticked. It's in no way comparable to a TME. If you want a Richard Burns inspired Impreza, get an RB320. That would be worth 40k with one owner and low mileage.I very nearly bought an RB5 PPP back in 2008/9. I even joined the forum to get lots of info on them. But I needed the money for a flat deposit so missed out in the end. Part of the reason I bought a GR Yaris is because I never owned an AWD rally car back in their heyday.
£40k for the RB5 now does make a brand new GR Yaris seem good value. But the Impreza is an icon, and there’s probably fewer than 100 original PPP’d RB5s on the road today (only 277 licensed and SORN in total).
£40k for the RB5 now does make a brand new GR Yaris seem good value. But the Impreza is an icon, and there’s probably fewer than 100 original PPP’d RB5s on the road today (only 277 licensed and SORN in total).
jsf said:
The WR1 was the first UK model to have DCCD-A, it used an AP suretrack front LSD rather than the usual STi Helical fitted to the JDM model. That produced more torque steer and a slightly less direct front end, but is still a decent setup. The first time i drove the WR1 (number 2) was at Elvington so lots of open space to play with, it was a fantastic improvement over the normal UK spec STi, you just need to know what you are doing to get them to dance.
Driving an Impreza (any permanent AWD car really) is all about timing, the biggest issue is being too early on the throttle, if you don't allow the car to rotate and get on the power too soon, they have a tendency to understeer (simple physics), if you get the timing correct you can exit on full power with a slight oversteer. Cars with the Auto DCCD are fantastic when you do this properly, they have huge grip and corner exit speed and generate a level of G in lateral and longitudinal directions you dont usually feel on a road car.
The MY05 system is better, Subaru added a Yaw sensor to the control system and changed the diff mapping to suit, so you can push them harder, but even the earlier spec setup is good when you learn to drive it properly.
Really interesting post, thanks.Driving an Impreza (any permanent AWD car really) is all about timing, the biggest issue is being too early on the throttle, if you don't allow the car to rotate and get on the power too soon, they have a tendency to understeer (simple physics), if you get the timing correct you can exit on full power with a slight oversteer. Cars with the Auto DCCD are fantastic when you do this properly, they have huge grip and corner exit speed and generate a level of G in lateral and longitudinal directions you dont usually feel on a road car.
The MY05 system is better, Subaru added a Yaw sensor to the control system and changed the diff mapping to suit, so you can push them harder, but even the earlier spec setup is good when you learn to drive it properly.
MiseryStreak said:
I very nearly bought an RB5 PPP back in 2008/9. I even joined the forum to get lots of info on them. But I needed the money for a flat deposit so missed out in the end. Part of the reason I bought a GR Yaris is because I never owned an AWD rally car back in their heyday.
£40k for the RB5 now does make a brand new GR Yaris seem good value. But the Impreza is an icon, and there’s probably fewer than 100 original PPP’d RB5s on the road today (only 277 licensed and SORN in total).
I've not driven a GR Yaris yet, but they use a design of centre diff torque control which uses some of the technology in the Subaru DCCD centre diff unit. The Subaru is effectively two diff units in one package, it has a mechanical gear based diff which creates the torque split (66/33) and then has a two stage plated diff arrangement which clamps the two outputs together at a variable rate.£40k for the RB5 now does make a brand new GR Yaris seem good value. But the Impreza is an icon, and there’s probably fewer than 100 original PPP’d RB5s on the road today (only 277 licensed and SORN in total).
jsf said:
The WR1 was the first UK model to have DCCD-A, it used an AP suretrack front LSD rather than the usual STi Helical fitted to the JDM model. That produced more torque steer and a slightly less direct front end, but is still a decent setup. The first time i drove the WR1 (number 2) was at Elvington so lots of open space to play with, it was a fantastic improvement over the normal UK spec STi, you just need to know what you are doing to get them to dance.
Driving an Impreza (any permanent AWD car really) is all about timing, the biggest issue is being too early on the throttle, if you don't allow the car to rotate and get on the power too soon, they have a tendency to understeer (simple physics), if you get the timing correct you can exit on full power with a slight oversteer. Cars with the Auto DCCD are fantastic when you do this properly, they have huge grip and corner exit speed and generate a level of G in lateral and longitudinal directions you dont usually feel on a road car.
The MY05 system is better, Subaru added a Yaw sensor to the control system and changed the diff mapping to suit, so you can push them harder, but even the earlier spec setup is good when you learn to drive it properly.
Really interesting post, thanks.Driving an Impreza (any permanent AWD car really) is all about timing, the biggest issue is being too early on the throttle, if you don't allow the car to rotate and get on the power too soon, they have a tendency to understeer (simple physics), if you get the timing correct you can exit on full power with a slight oversteer. Cars with the Auto DCCD are fantastic when you do this properly, they have huge grip and corner exit speed and generate a level of G in lateral and longitudinal directions you dont usually feel on a road car.
The MY05 system is better, Subaru added a Yaw sensor to the control system and changed the diff mapping to suit, so you can push them harder, but even the earlier spec setup is good when you learn to drive it properly.
When people mention the variable rate torque split, then what they are actually referring to is how tight the clutch plates in the diff are clamped together, the tighter the plate clamp, the more equal the torque delivery to front/rear. This is controlled by an electromagnet, in Auto mode the diff ECU is using sensor and switch inputs to change the tightness of the plates. In Manual mode you are just controlling that clamping load via the dial, from full electromagnet current to switched off and just the preload in the plates and the mechanical gear ratio.
On the DCCD-A system even in manual mode, the diff ECU controls the current to the electromagnet if it gets some inputs from the other car systems, for example when the ABS activates, even if you have it set manually to 100% lock, the diff is unlocked to just 5%, this allows the wheels to rotate at different speeds as the ABS pulses, without that unlocking you wouldn't get a true ABS as the diffs try and transfer torque through the system into each wheel.
That is the reason why UK cars never got DCCD until they had developed the DCCD-A option, because they all had to be fitted with ABS and the manual DCCD fitted to the JDM GC8 cars was only available on cars without ABS. This is why the P1, although it used a 3 door type R shell, was based on the normal saloon JDM STi models running gear, which had ABS and a VC centre diff unit.
It's worth knowing this because a lot of people think when driving in snow and locking up the DCCD-A system, you have that lock under braking. You don't, as soon as the ABS starts you lose most of the diff lock benefit. Come off the brakes and the diff unit locks back up, so if you are sensitive to this, you can modulate the brakes and if you hold it off the ABS, the car will often work better.
It's quite a clever integrated system, with the ABS wheel speeds fed into the diff controller via CAN and depending on model you have G and Yaw sensors it uses to work out where in a corner phase you are to give you the best torque split, the brake system also uses the G sensor to alter the brake bias, so you can really push the car to the brake threshold on all 4 wheels. I use a programable centre diff controller in competition events, so i can map the lock rate profile to better suit what i want on the day, as the road mapping is based around that environment. I would think a GR Yaris with a mappable controller would be a useful tool if pushing for competitive times and a better balance at the limit.
epom said:
People outraged at the price 
so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be.
Everyone seems to be outraged at the price of every car these days - presumably as their cars are company provided or only cost £300…………………..per month. so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be. This seems reasonable value for an iconic rally rep you can use on high days and holidays compared to the 1/4 million pound Integrale a few weeks ago.
EVO mag, which many seem to respect the opinion of, put one of these in first place in a big 4WD test. Stuff like the Integrale and Quattro didn’t make the top 3
jsf said:
Chunkychucky said:
As for the WR1 of which you make mention, my friend chopped his in after 6 months, passing the chassis off as unresolved for our roads and the adjustable centre diff as merely a gimmick, pointless for the road. Interesting seeing cars I have experience of being 'overhyped' in the marketplace, and hilarious comparing what I/others from the time think they're worth vs. what chancers are advertising them for now!
The WR1 was the first UK model to have DCCD-A, it used an AP suretrack front LSD rather than the usual STi Helical fitted to the JDM model. That produced more torque steer and a slightly less direct front end, but is still a decent setup. The first time i drove the WR1 (number 2) was at Elvington so lots of open space to play with, it was a fantastic improvement over the normal UK spec STi, you just need to know what you are doing to get them to dance.Driving an Impreza (any permanent AWD car really) is all about timing, the biggest issue is being too early on the throttle, if you don't allow the car to rotate and get on the power too soon, they have a tendency to understeer (simple physics), if you get the timing correct you can exit on full power with a slight oversteer. Cars with the Auto DCCD are fantastic when you do this properly, they have huge grip and corner exit speed and generate a level of G in lateral and longitudinal directions you dont usually feel on a road car.
The MY05 system is better, Subaru added a Yaw sensor to the control system and changed the diff mapping to suit, so you can push them harder, but even the earlier spec setup is good when you learn to drive it properly.
Many years ago, I would take my MY05 UK STi PPP on Bedford Autodrome track day. Set DCCD to the most rear bias and drift it like Clarkson on Top Gear. Foot planted and just throw it into the corners.
I always wanted to do that. Of course, I then get black flagged but it was worth it. What a feeling to make the car dance.
s m said:
Everyone seems to be outraged at the price of every car these days - presumably as their cars are company provided or only cost £300…………………..per month.
This seems reasonable value for an iconic rally rep you can use on high days and holidays compared to the 1/4 million pound Integrale a few weeks ago.
EVO mag, which many seem to respect the opinion of, put one of these in first place in a big 4WD test. Stuff like the Integrale and Quattro didn’t make the top 3
Don't use magazines to base your comparisons would be my advice.This seems reasonable value for an iconic rally rep you can use on high days and holidays compared to the 1/4 million pound Integrale a few weeks ago.
EVO mag, which many seem to respect the opinion of, put one of these in first place in a big 4WD test. Stuff like the Integrale and Quattro didn’t make the top 3
A car is worth what someone will pay, i wouldn't buy an RB5, but obviously some do.
jsf said:
s m said:
Everyone seems to be outraged at the price of every car these days - presumably as their cars are company provided or only cost £300…………………..per month.
This seems reasonable value for an iconic rally rep you can use on high days and holidays compared to the 1/4 million pound Integrale a few weeks ago.
EVO mag, which many seem to respect the opinion of, put one of these in first place in a big 4WD test. Stuff like the Integrale and Quattro didn’t make the top 3
Don't use magazines to base your comparisons would be my advice.This seems reasonable value for an iconic rally rep you can use on high days and holidays compared to the 1/4 million pound Integrale a few weeks ago.
EVO mag, which many seem to respect the opinion of, put one of these in first place in a big 4WD test. Stuff like the Integrale and Quattro didn’t make the top 3
A car is worth what someone will pay, i wouldn't buy an RB5, but obviously some do.
Seems a lot of people buy stuff ‘blind’ though and go from reviews
s m said:
epom said:
People outraged at the price so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be.
Everyone seems to be outraged at the price of every car these days - presumably as their cars are company provided or only cost £300…………………..per month. so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be. This seems reasonable value for an iconic rally rep you can use on high days and holidays compared to the 1/4 million pound Integrale a few weeks ago.
EVO mag, which many seem to respect the opinion of, put one of these in first place in a big 4WD test. Stuff like the Integrale and Quattro didn’t make the top 3
TEKNOPUG said:
s m said:
epom said:
People outraged at the price so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be.
Everyone seems to be outraged at the price of every car these days - presumably as their cars are company provided or only cost £300…………………..per month. so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be. This seems reasonable value for an iconic rally rep you can use on high days and holidays compared to the 1/4 million pound Integrale a few weeks ago.
EVO mag, which many seem to respect the opinion of, put one of these in first place in a big 4WD test. Stuff like the Integrale and Quattro didn’t make the top 3
Scobblelotcher said:
TEKNOPUG said:
s m said:
epom said:
People outraged at the price so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be.
Everyone seems to be outraged at the price of every car these days - presumably as their cars are company provided or only cost £300…………………..per month. so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be. This seems reasonable value for an iconic rally rep you can use on high days and holidays compared to the 1/4 million pound Integrale a few weeks ago.
EVO mag, which many seem to respect the opinion of, put one of these in first place in a big 4WD test. Stuff like the Integrale and Quattro didn’t make the top 3
LotusOmega375D said:
Whilst we’re on the subject, how about some more models of cars associated with the name of a famous racing driver? The lead story mentions a few, so here’s some more from me.
BMW M3 Johnny Cecotto
Mercedes Stirling Moss
McLaren Senna (2 for the price of one here)
Bugatti Chiron
Audi Nuvolari
M3 Cecotto owned one for a couple of years in the early 1990's before trading it for a TVR, wish I had it now, a great car, there was also the Ravaglia edition after Roberto RavagliaBMW M3 Johnny Cecotto
Mercedes Stirling Moss
McLaren Senna (2 for the price of one here)
Bugatti Chiron
Audi Nuvolari
Scobblelotcher said:
TEKNOPUG said:
s m said:
epom said:
People outraged at the price so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be.
Everyone seems to be outraged at the price of every car these days - presumably as their cars are company provided or only cost £300…………………..per month. so easily outraged, if you’re not interested at that price it’s actually ok. Most likely somebody else will be. This seems reasonable value for an iconic rally rep you can use on high days and holidays compared to the 1/4 million pound Integrale a few weeks ago.
EVO mag, which many seem to respect the opinion of, put one of these in first place in a big 4WD test. Stuff like the Integrale and Quattro didn’t make the top 3
Scobblelotcher said:
The RB5 did have a solid rear bulkhead. I owned two and both had it. I seem to remember the RB5 had the STi 5 body but not 100% on that. Maybe some of the first cars didn’t or were repaired?
Maybe semantics, but what the internet calls a fixed rear bulkhead is just non-reclining seats and a square section strut brace…same as the sti’s.Eit: just caught up with the rest of the thread. Guess I’m due a parrot.
Edited by trails on Saturday 27th November 17:10
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