RE: Alfa Romeo Alfasud | Spotted
Discussion
AC43 said:
robemcdonald said:
AC43 said:
GVO said:
This is mine. Found it online in Melbourne Australia during lockdown and had it shipped to the UK. I had 3 in the early 1980s and this is just as good to drive today as they were then (although the brakes do feel dated). In the meantime I have had some wonderful cars including Integrale and 993RS, and currently an Alpine. The Sud remains an all time great in terms of the way it drives. This is a Series 1 1.2Ti, with a 1.7 twin carb from a 33, which cures the original car's lack of grunt totally!
BTW, they did sell a 4 door 1.5Ti, but only in South Africa.
Alfasud front brakes weren’t great.
Discs on the back makes hardly any difference to drums, apart from a handbrake that actually works.
soxboy said:
Here’s a ‘Sud that might give an indication to correct market levels:
https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/sa078b-lot-174...
That looks almost identical to one I owned in the mid 80s. I ran it for a while and it was just brilliant to drive. Great fun and made a lovely raspy exhaust sound.https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/sa078b-lot-174...
Edited by soxboy on Tuesday 1st March 20:28
After a while I decided to part with it as it was clearly biodegrading and would need a lot of work. A friend decided he wanted it having enjoyed numerous passenger rides in it. I sold it to him for very little money having fully declared its considerable corrosion issues. My friend ran it for a few months until it catastrophically failed the next MOT, he then left it dumped on his driveway for a couple of years.
One beautiful summer’s day I was helping said friend with a job on his replacement car - a Mk3 Escort- and we needed a particular tool. ‘There’s one in a toolbox in the boot of that old Alfa’ he said and I went to get it. Now a feature of the older ones (or at least this example) was that the boot lid did not have any struts and simply flipped back to lay on the back window. I opened the boot and within was a fairly large metal toolbox. I found the tool we needed and flipped the boot lid closed. Having no struts it closed fairly suddenly and the entire boot floor complete with toolbox detached from the car and deposited itself on my mate’s driveway in a substantial cloud of dust. It had completely rusted through and most of the underneath of the car was close to following. It went for scrap soon after although it would probably have dissolved away fairly shortly anyway!
A sad end to what was a great little car. A properly protected and looked after example today would be a great fun classic to use (in the dry!)
2xChevrons said:
I had already tracked it down, but thanks 
Good to see that the 'Sud is clearly loved and being looked after while being put to good use. I do now vaguely remember Dad saying something about the buyer specifically wanting a 4-door because his father had one.
It did rather confuse me when there's an editing mix-up and they lift the bonnet on the 'Sud and there's a shot of the engine bay of the chap's M3 - I thought for a second that he'd put some sort of weird throttle-body Megasquirt system on it!
Hi, I’ve very much still enjoying it, although not driven it much recently as I’m being very careful about covering it in salt!Good to see that the 'Sud is clearly loved and being looked after while being put to good use. I do now vaguely remember Dad saying something about the buyer specifically wanting a 4-door because his father had one.
It did rather confuse me when there's an editing mix-up and they lift the bonnet on the 'Sud and there's a shot of the engine bay of the chap's M3 - I thought for a second that he'd put some sort of weird throttle-body Megasquirt system on it!
I did around 4000 miles in my first full year with it, often using it for my 60 mile round trip A / B road commute. I always enjoy driving it, gets tons of interest, plenty of smiles and thumbs up and more people have stopped to talk about it than anything else I’ve owned.
Other than a few things mentioned in the vid it’s pretty much as I bought it. I did end up fitting a new radiator and stripped, cleaned, painted and re-bushed the front suspension arms but that’s about it.
And yes, much as I love the Ti and cloverleafs, I was specifically after a four door metal bumper version and when I spotted you dads on eBay I immediately sent a link to the other half, she didn’t give an immediate NO. I was allowed to buy it as long as it was going to be used and not become another project added to the list.
To address a couple of other things in the thread, I would happily drive it every day but for a couple of things, I’m not very good in summer heat, and with lots of glass and minimal underfloor insulation it gets pretty hot - aircon is about the only luxury I want in a true daily driver, heater is not great in winter plus the corrosion worries. I’m also slightly concerned about piling on too many miles due to many basic consumable and service items becoming hard to source. From a pure comfort and ease of driving perspective I would happily use it as my main daily driver!
Performance, while not quick by any means, it’s certainly no slouch. The 1500cc single carb engine may only make 85bhp, but the car weighs under 850kg, the power to weight ratio is similar or better than many modern equivalent super mini shopping cars. It is easily quicker than my step daughters 1.4 16v VW polo. It definitely surprises a lot of people, I have no problem at all keeping up with normal day to day traffic, it will cruise comfortably at 70. Gearing is pretty low so while the engine loves to rev and is surprisingly quiet and refined on a cruise, to go much above 70 can feel a little cruel.
robemcdonald said:
AC43 said:
robemcdonald said:
AC43 said:
GVO said:
This is mine. Found it online in Melbourne Australia during lockdown and had it shipped to the UK. I had 3 in the early 1980s and this is just as good to drive today as they were then (although the brakes do feel dated). In the meantime I have had some wonderful cars including Integrale and 993RS, and currently an Alpine. The Sud remains an all time great in terms of the way it drives. This is a Series 1 1.2Ti, with a 1.7 twin carb from a 33, which cures the original car's lack of grunt totally!
BTW, they did sell a 4 door 1.5Ti, but only in South Africa.
Alfasud front brakes weren’t great.
Discs on the back makes hardly any difference to drums, apart from a handbrake that actually works.
gazza285 said:
robemcdonald said:
They look far better with bumpers quite frankly, and that paint looks like it is hiding some horrors...It was painted about 15 years ago. The guy promised and severely failed to deliver. There were lots of red flags I should have seen at the time, but I was younger, less cynical and keen for a too good to be true deal.
Good news is I am currently in the process of getting quotes for a proper job, hopefully at that point it might better meet your approval.
As for horrors. I had new sills about 5 years ago the whole car is cavity waxed it’s also been sitting on the drive since September with no Ill effects. I think it’s probably okay. (Started first time last night when I moved it)
The only problem is a slightly lumpy idle, but I picked up a new AFM from Alfa Aid yesterday, so that’s soon sorted.
woody33 said:
robemcdonald said:
AC43 said:
robemcdonald said:
AC43 said:
GVO said:
This is mine. Found it online in Melbourne Australia during lockdown and had it shipped to the UK. I had 3 in the early 1980s and this is just as good to drive today as they were then (although the brakes do feel dated). In the meantime I have had some wonderful cars including Integrale and 993RS, and currently an Alpine. The Sud remains an all time great in terms of the way it drives. This is a Series 1 1.2Ti, with a 1.7 twin carb from a 33, which cures the original car's lack of grunt totally!
BTW, they did sell a 4 door 1.5Ti, but only in South Africa.
Alfasud front brakes weren’t great.
Discs on the back makes hardly any difference to drums, apart from a handbrake that actually works.
Like me he’s a serial 33 owner (he currently has an S1, S2 and S3)
He is currently getting his sud back on the road.
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this one. Sold a couple of days ago, anyone on here?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194845983167
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194845983167
230TE said:
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this one. Sold a couple of days ago, anyone on here?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194845983167
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194845983167
Lovely! Re engines I found the 1.2 (1186) was the sweetest revving one. I guess that’s because it was the original design.
woody33 said:
robemcdonald said:
AC43 said:
robemcdonald said:
AC43 said:
GVO said:
This is mine. Found it online in Melbourne Australia during lockdown and had it shipped to the UK. I had 3 in the early 1980s and this is just as good to drive today as they were then (although the brakes do feel dated). In the meantime I have had some wonderful cars including Integrale and 993RS, and currently an Alpine. The Sud remains an all time great in terms of the way it drives. This is a Series 1 1.2Ti, with a 1.7 twin carb from a 33, which cures the original car's lack of grunt totally!
BTW, they did sell a 4 door 1.5Ti, but only in South Africa.
Alfasud front brakes weren’t great.
Discs on the back makes hardly any difference to drums, apart from a handbrake that actually works.
I never found that hard to change the pads but getting the calipers off was more or a PITA. The worst job of all was disconnecting/reconnecting the speedo cable.
The brilliant thing about the inboard brakes was the reduction in unsprung weight with all the benefits that brought in terms of steering feel & grip. The former was also helped by the then-revolutionary high-mounted steering rack and the fact that rack itself ran in an (exotic-for-the-time) ball race. I remember, in 1982 or 83 the local Mini specialist looking at that nice little touch in awe; compared to the stuff you got on a Mini at the time it was extraordinary.
There were a few other cars running inboard discs at the time - the ones that always jump out at me are the Alfetta, Rover P6 and various Jags. All at the rear, all running sophisticated multi-link and/or De Dion set ups for grip, ride and handling reasons. Plus the fact that braking loads are taken by the chassis and not by suspension components (keeping the geometry true). Also why they are common in competition cars.
The only big drawback in the Sud front discs was the lack of cooling. On more than one occasion me and my mate would see smoke coming off the the pads after a particularly spirited bit of B road hoonery. In extreme conditions you could actually get the discs glowing a dull read.
robemcdonald said:
The only problem is a slightly lumpy idle, but I picked up a new AFM from Alfa Aid yesterday, so that’s soon sorted.
Mine had a lumpy idle, it took me a while to find the issue, one of the inlet manifolds was porous and drawing in air. Not as porous as the strut tops however…integrale_evo said:
That car is almost identical to the one I very first drove in 1981. It was a brown 1.3 Super. It was the one which absolutely annihilated that Capri 3.0 down a bumpy B road in Fife.
There was a whole cottage industry back then of people buying Minis, Capris, Escorts and the like then throwing vast amounts of time, effort and money at them to try to make them go, stop and steer properly. I myself did it with a Mini. Bought a Clubman, put a bored out 1275 in it with skimmed, ported, balanced head, large valves, double valve springs, Copper cam, Cooper dizzy, swan neck manifold with Dellorto down draft carb, LCB, Janspeed pipe, Cooper back box, Rostyles, Cooper discs, Spax dampers etc.
Then I drove a Sud and realised I could buy something brilliantly set up straight out of the box and actually use it on proper road trips instead of spending every second weekend underneath it in the garage. It wasn't long before I flogged the Mini and bought a Sprint. Had a LOT of fun in it.
Great cars to drive but by no stretch of the imagination a 'looker' (Italian brio aside) - they always reminded me visually of an Allegro.
We had one as the pool car in my first office - I used to love driving it, the low CoG from the boxer and supple suspension was delightful, it was slow though you could just keep your foot planted for all but the tighest of hairpins and it would go around without any fuss. The faux wood finish on the gearknob wore off after less than 12 months to reveal a horrid white nylon underneath. I had a Mk2 Cooper S at the time and to some extent it reminded me of a grown up version, the grip at least.
I almost bought a Trofeo Sprint around the same time but dodged a bullet in a rare moment of youthful commonsense - it was being sold by a posh lady from deepest Northumberland but when I visited it was rotten as a pear
We had one as the pool car in my first office - I used to love driving it, the low CoG from the boxer and supple suspension was delightful, it was slow though you could just keep your foot planted for all but the tighest of hairpins and it would go around without any fuss. The faux wood finish on the gearknob wore off after less than 12 months to reveal a horrid white nylon underneath. I had a Mk2 Cooper S at the time and to some extent it reminded me of a grown up version, the grip at least.
I almost bought a Trofeo Sprint around the same time but dodged a bullet in a rare moment of youthful commonsense - it was being sold by a posh lady from deepest Northumberland but when I visited it was rotten as a pear
Edited by Lotobear on Wednesday 2nd March 08:44
One thing I learned early on in my Sud ownership was not to try handbrake turn on the snow . The brakes work on the wrong end ...
Apart from that addictive, sizzling rasp from the exhaust a couple of other things I adored were -
-not only the novelty of five speeds , but a gearlever and gaiter that looked like it came out of a Maserati
- a driver's footrest ; common now , very rare then
- the little red light that went out when the engine was warmed up
Most of all , it was the sense of occasion that every drive in a Sud provided . This wasn't a shonky Austin 1100 with drum brakes and an asthmatic A Series , this car was an Alfa Romeo , complete with one of the sexiest logos of all.
Apart from that addictive, sizzling rasp from the exhaust a couple of other things I adored were -
-not only the novelty of five speeds , but a gearlever and gaiter that looked like it came out of a Maserati
- a driver's footrest ; common now , very rare then
- the little red light that went out when the engine was warmed up
Most of all , it was the sense of occasion that every drive in a Sud provided . This wasn't a shonky Austin 1100 with drum brakes and an asthmatic A Series , this car was an Alfa Romeo , complete with one of the sexiest logos of all.
gazza285 said:
robemcdonald said:
The only problem is a slightly lumpy idle, but I picked up a new AFM from Alfa Aid yesterday, so that’s soon sorted.
Mine had a lumpy idle, it took me a while to find the issue, one of the inlet manifolds was porous and drawing in air. Not as porous as the strut tops however…velocemitch said:
PistonBroker said:
TWPC said:
He bought an Alfasud 1.3 Ti in 1978 to back up our existing SAAB 99L - quite a respectable seventies garage . . .
I was gutted when he bought the Saab! A 99L 2 Door Saloon, he kept it getting on for twenty years two, only swapping it for a 900!
I so loved the thought of the Sud, would have been happy with the Beta too.
velocemitch, Coincidentally the 99L replaced a series 1 Lancia Beta 1.6 in our garage. Unfortunately Dad died in 1990 so I have no idea of the exact circumstances of its sale but I don't think our example had catastrophic rust (though maybe he sold as he knew it was coming). I remember thinking the dashboard was very cool and the instruments futuristic. I fear this thread confirms your preference for the Sud, at least in terms of thrills, was correct!
I found a road test of the Beta on Autocar: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes-t...
integrale_evo said:
Hi, I’ve very much still enjoying it, although not driven it much recently as I’m being very careful about covering it in salt!
I did around 4000 miles in my first full year with it, often using it for my 60 mile round trip A / B road commute. I always enjoy driving it, gets tons of interest, plenty of smiles and thumbs up and more people have stopped to talk about it than anything else I’ve owned.
That's great to know - thanks for the update! The wariness about salt is entirely understandable I did around 4000 miles in my first full year with it, often using it for my 60 mile round trip A / B road commute. I always enjoy driving it, gets tons of interest, plenty of smiles and thumbs up and more people have stopped to talk about it than anything else I’ve owned.
AC43 said:
Agree. Plus they ran the same brakes all the way up to the 105bhp QV.
There were a few other cars running inboard discs at the time - the ones that always jump out at me are the Alfetta, Rover P6 and various Jags. All at the rear, all running sophisticated multi-link and/or De Dion set ups for grip, ride and handling reasons. Plus the fact that braking loads are taken by the chassis and not by suspension components (keeping the geometry true). Also why they are common in competition cars.
The only big drawback in the Sud front discs was the lack of cooling. On more than one occasion me and my mate would see smoke coming off the the pads after a particularly spirited bit of B road hoonery. In extreme conditions you could actually get the discs glowing a dull read.
Indeed, one of the recurring issues my Dad had when he was running his 'Suds back in the day was the rear discs corroding (and then scoring the pads) because they never did much work - the Alfasud is a lightweight car, most of that weight is at the front, the front discs do most of the work and are very well-specced for that purpose, leaving the rears rather neglected. There were a few other cars running inboard discs at the time - the ones that always jump out at me are the Alfetta, Rover P6 and various Jags. All at the rear, all running sophisticated multi-link and/or De Dion set ups for grip, ride and handling reasons. Plus the fact that braking loads are taken by the chassis and not by suspension components (keeping the geometry true). Also why they are common in competition cars.
The only big drawback in the Sud front discs was the lack of cooling. On more than one occasion me and my mate would see smoke coming off the the pads after a particularly spirited bit of B road hoonery. In extreme conditions you could actually get the discs glowing a dull read.
I have the same issue with my 2CV (another car with inboard front brakes...), where unless you're carrying two people or 250kg of potatoes and goat in the back the rear brakes are essentially pointless and the drums go rusty. One the 2CV they solved the airflow issue on the front discs by having forced air cooling ducts from the engine fan going to each disc.
coppice said:
One thing I learned early on in my Sud ownership was not to try handbrake turn on the snow . The brakes work on the wrong end ...
Most of all , it was the sense of occasion that every drive in a Sud provided . This wasn't a shonky Austin 1100 with drum brakes and an asthmatic A Series , this car was an Alfa Romeo , complete with one of the sexiest logos of all.
Slightly unfair on the Austin 1100, I feel. An Alfasud is a superior machine in almost every way, but then it was designed a decade later. In 1962 the 1100 was not far off being the contemporary equivalent of the 'Sud - with its front-wheel drive, independent rising-rate interconnected suspension, rack and pinion steering, front disc brakes, wheels-at-each-corner planform and snappy Italian styling it represented a massive leap forward for its market and was leagues ahead of its rivals in terms of sophistication. Where the Alfasud really scores (and what impressed the road testers in the early 70s even more than the handling) was the mechanical refinement and low NVH of the Alfa - something the company really worked hard on during development. And something that BMC never got a grip on with its FWD range, which were all plagued by drivetrain shunt, whiny geartrains, ride quality that was either absorbent but bouncy or taut but harsh and over-complex running gear with too many bearings and trunnion points. Most of all , it was the sense of occasion that every drive in a Sud provided . This wasn't a shonky Austin 1100 with drum brakes and an asthmatic A Series , this car was an Alfa Romeo , complete with one of the sexiest logos of all.
The Alfasud is really the sort of thing Alec Issigonis should have come up with as an ADO16 replacement (or instead of the Maxi) - his sort of thinking is all over it in terms of engineering and design. But he was too wedded to his own ideas and BMC would never have signed off on something with the clean-sheet innovation of the 'Sud - which frankly only existed at all thanks to the financial backing of the Italian government as a project of socio-economic engineering as much as automotive.
Lotobear said:
Great cars to drive but by no stretch of the imagination a 'looker' (Italian brio aside) - they always reminded me visually of an Allegro.
The ironic thing is that the original clay styling bucks for the Allegro look incredibly similar to the Alfasud, and both were designed and styled to very similar briefs. The Allegro was then distorted by various production engineering requirements (taller engines, bulkier heaters, thicker seats, a last-minute decision to make it longer and wider for marketing reasons) which turned it into the bloated mess that it became. I once did a photoshop grafting the front of a 'Sud onto an Allegro and not only was it surprisingly easy to do but it 'worked'. The Allegro was considered in the same technical class as the 'Sud when they were launched - with the Citroen GS and the Volkswagen K70 they were seen as a new cohort of technologically and stylistically advanced front-drive small family cars. The GS is the only one that was really worthy of being talked about in the same breath.
TWPC said:
velocemitch said:
PistonBroker said:
TWPC said:
He bought an Alfasud 1.3 Ti in 1978 to back up our existing SAAB 99L - quite a respectable seventies garage . . .
I was gutted when he bought the Saab! A 99L 2 Door Saloon, he kept it getting on for twenty years two, only swapping it for a 900!
I so loved the thought of the Sud, would have been happy with the Beta too.
velocemitch, Coincidentally the 99L replaced a series 1 Lancia Beta 1.6 in our garage. Unfortunately Dad died in 1990 so I have no idea of the exact circumstances of its sale but I don't think our example had catastrophic rust (though maybe he sold as he knew it was coming). I remember thinking the dashboard was very cool and the instruments futuristic. I fear this thread confirms your preference for the Sud, at least in terms of thrills, was correct!
I found a road test of the Beta on Autocar: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes-t...
I guess it, and the later Volumexes, were competing with the various Alfetta GT's and GTV's of which I also drove quite a few including a GT 1.8, a couple of GTV 2.0's and a GTV6.
As I've said in other posts, my formative driving years took place in a sea of Italian cars. Alfas in the main, with a side dish of Lancias and a smattering of Fiats.
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