Petrol prices- when does the madness end?
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
How much are you paying in annual rail tax, train insurance, maintenance, servicing and repairs etc etc?
This past year tax has cost £150, a service £126, two tyres due to punctures, £200 and insurance £220.Good point, I'll add those up.
Depreciation is £0.00, actually it's negative as the car appears to be worth over £1000 more than its original list price.
£7.81 for a daily commute including the above costs. Still cheaper, more comfortable and a lot quicker than the train.
For now......
Edited by croyde on Saturday 11th June 13:10
Paul-2j0oy said:
printing money for years.
fake econmony to cover truth.
shut the country/world in last two years to add a further 500 billion to borrowed balance. congrats
happy furlough money to those who got it.
its all got to be paid back now by the middle folk.
50% of the market will be wiped off in next year.
I think about covers it sadly.fake econmony to cover truth.
shut the country/world in last two years to add a further 500 billion to borrowed balance. congrats
happy furlough money to those who got it.
its all got to be paid back now by the middle folk.
50% of the market will be wiped off in next year.
Lincsls1 said:
Paul-2j0oy said:
printing money for years.
fake econmony to cover truth.
shut the country/world in last two years to add a further 500 billion to borrowed balance. congrats
happy furlough money to those who got it.
its all got to be paid back now by the middle folk.
50% of the market will be wiped off in next year.
I think about covers it sadly.fake econmony to cover truth.
shut the country/world in last two years to add a further 500 billion to borrowed balance. congrats
happy furlough money to those who got it.
its all got to be paid back now by the middle folk.
50% of the market will be wiped off in next year.
There is no middle class anymore there's the "poor", working class and upper class or elite. Long term unemployed people like me exist to scare the working class into keeping working (stick) whilst we suck up all the benefits and plan to buy our homes with benefits. The upper class provide delusions of aspiration to said working class (carrot).
Back on the point of fuel prices it's the perpetually squeezed grist for the mill working class that need to use fuel everyday to commute to their work camps, the unemployed don't really have a need and half the upper class works from home now and the other half can comfortably afford it anyway.
Buses are quite impractical and thus it's passenger rail that needs deep long term investment, many of us would happily take trains everywhere if they weren't so outrageously expensive. Oh perpetual strikes and union action isn't helping either. I do not believe cars are going back to prior levels of affordability, whether ev or ice.
Info on the lack of refinery capacity
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/20...
Refineries aren't normally very profitable but are basically making 5x their usual margin at the moment due to a lack of investment from woke ESG warriors, and Russian sanctions, and these increased margins at least act as an incentive to utilise all existing capacity around the world.
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/20...
Refineries aren't normally very profitable but are basically making 5x their usual margin at the moment due to a lack of investment from woke ESG warriors, and Russian sanctions, and these increased margins at least act as an incentive to utilise all existing capacity around the world.
Wheelspinning said:
Average oil price so far this year is $99. It is currently $122.
In 2012 average price was $109.
Forecourt prices were around £1.20.
Now I get that retail, and distribution prices are higher but not driving 80p a litre.
This is a totally manufactured crisis.
1. Pound is weaker vs dollar. In 2012 average price was $109.
Forecourt prices were around £1.20.
Now I get that retail, and distribution prices are higher but not driving 80p a litre.
This is a totally manufactured crisis.
2. Bio costs and various other compliance costs are higher (these go into the wholesale cost, basically)
3. The variance between crude costs and refined product costs is strong at the moment especially for diesel, partly due to Russian exports being less acceptable in developed markets than previously. This disrupts the market.
Also, average prices aren’t £2/litre yet. This kind of exaggeration does no credit to those who see fuel prices conspiracies everywhere.
Wheelspinning said:
Average oil price so far this year is $99. It is currently $122.
In 2012 average price was $109.
Forecourt prices were around £1.20.
Now I get that retail, and distribution prices are higher but not driving 80p a litre.
This is a totally manufactured crisis.
As above. We pay for our fuel in dollars, and the pound (after Brexit) has plummeted in value, so we pay much more for the same amount.In 2012 average price was $109.
Forecourt prices were around £1.20.
Now I get that retail, and distribution prices are higher but not driving 80p a litre.
This is a totally manufactured crisis.
HustleRussell said:
croyde said:
So with petrol bought at £1.90/litre my daily commute is now costing me £4.54.
Half hour each way, door to door in the comfort of my own car.
The same journey by train is £9.00 and certainly not door to door.
2 trains each way with, quite often, a half hour wait when changing on the way home. Journey in is an hour, home is 1.5 hours at least.
Very often there are big delays and cancellations plus it's effing cold in the winter.
Thus petrol needs to get to well above £3.80/litre before I would even consider public transport.
This isn't a long journey. It's 8 miles across one side of London.
How much are you paying in annual rail tax, train insurance, maintenance, servicing and repairs etc etc? Half hour each way, door to door in the comfort of my own car.
The same journey by train is £9.00 and certainly not door to door.
2 trains each way with, quite often, a half hour wait when changing on the way home. Journey in is an hour, home is 1.5 hours at least.
Very often there are big delays and cancellations plus it's effing cold in the winter.
Thus petrol needs to get to well above £3.80/litre before I would even consider public transport.
This isn't a long journey. It's 8 miles across one side of London.
captain.scarlet said:
delta0 said:
Pistonheader101 said:
there has to be a way to implement charges on electric cars.
more likely through telematics, I wonder if its linked through the ISA speed limiters?
Maybe like smart meters but for mileages.
I can certainly see road charges being a thing for EV. Pay per mile has been mentioned a lot. more likely through telematics, I wonder if its linked through the ISA speed limiters?
Maybe like smart meters but for mileages.
It could all be linked to the V5 and drivers / vehicle keepers will need to pay online / at a paypoint, and/or have an online credit account that toll charges are deducted from.
unident said:
funinhounslow said:
But there is a serious point there about the merits of ebikes.
It is an odd reaction to increasing fuel prices to drop £20k+ on an electric car. Why not keep the ICE, run it into the ground and buy a couple of ebikes instead?
Whilst not for everyone I’m sure it would be a revelation for many people how many journeys can be ridden rather than driven. I’ve previously said if you can walk to the end of your street you can cycle 10 miles on an ebike.
My ebike also “paid for itself” within a year and I use it far more than I anticipated. To the extent that I can’t stand driving in town anymore. I’ve even seen a gardener near me who hauls all his gear on an ecargo bike and trailer.
How much are ebikes? I’ve seen the mountain bike ones seem to start at £5000 and keep going to near £20k. A coupleIt is an odd reaction to increasing fuel prices to drop £20k+ on an electric car. Why not keep the ICE, run it into the ground and buy a couple of ebikes instead?
Whilst not for everyone I’m sure it would be a revelation for many people how many journeys can be ridden rather than driven. I’ve previously said if you can walk to the end of your street you can cycle 10 miles on an ebike.
My ebike also “paid for itself” within a year and I use it far more than I anticipated. To the extent that I can’t stand driving in town anymore. I’ve even seen a gardener near me who hauls all his gear on an ecargo bike and trailer.
Of them would cost the same as a far more practical electric car.
Go to FB marketplace and type in "Bosch cx" and "Yamaha pwx" or "Bafang BPM" and you will find many good reliable ebikes for sale in the £1,000 to £2,000 range.
Alternatively you can buy a street legal Bafang BBS01 kit with 250 watts nominal if you want to keep things legal and build your own, learning about how ebikes work in the process.
Prefer the simplicity and higher reliability of a hub motor? Bafang BPM series hubs are tough as old Hiluxes and amazingly good on hills for a hub motor.
Want to go illegal and grin with joy? BBSHD
A500leroy said:
captain.scarlet said:
delta0 said:
Pistonheader101 said:
there has to be a way to implement charges on electric cars.
more likely through telematics, I wonder if its linked through the ISA speed limiters?
Maybe like smart meters but for mileages.
I can certainly see road charges being a thing for EV. Pay per mile has been mentioned a lot. more likely through telematics, I wonder if its linked through the ISA speed limiters?
Maybe like smart meters but for mileages.
It could all be linked to the V5 and drivers / vehicle keepers will need to pay online / at a paypoint, and/or have an online credit account that toll charges are deducted from.
T1tsortyres said:
unident said:
funinhounslow said:
But there is a serious point there about the merits of ebikes.
It is an odd reaction to increasing fuel prices to drop £20k+ on an electric car. Why not keep the ICE, run it into the ground and buy a couple of ebikes instead?
Whilst not for everyone I’m sure it would be a revelation for many people how many journeys can be ridden rather than driven. I’ve previously said if you can walk to the end of your street you can cycle 10 miles on an ebike.
My ebike also “paid for itself” within a year and I use it far more than I anticipated. To the extent that I can’t stand driving in town anymore. I’ve even seen a gardener near me who hauls all his gear on an ecargo bike and trailer.
How much are ebikes? I’ve seen the mountain bike ones seem to start at £5000 and keep going to near £20k. A coupleIt is an odd reaction to increasing fuel prices to drop £20k+ on an electric car. Why not keep the ICE, run it into the ground and buy a couple of ebikes instead?
Whilst not for everyone I’m sure it would be a revelation for many people how many journeys can be ridden rather than driven. I’ve previously said if you can walk to the end of your street you can cycle 10 miles on an ebike.
My ebike also “paid for itself” within a year and I use it far more than I anticipated. To the extent that I can’t stand driving in town anymore. I’ve even seen a gardener near me who hauls all his gear on an ecargo bike and trailer.
Of them would cost the same as a far more practical electric car.
Go to FB marketplace and type in "Bosch cx" and "Yamaha pwx" or "Bafang BPM" and you will find many good reliable ebikes for sale in the £1,000 to £2,000 range.
Alternatively you can buy a street legal Bafang BBS01 kit with 250 watts nominal if you want to keep things legal and build your own, learning about how ebikes work in the process.
Prefer the simplicity and higher reliability of a hub motor? Bafang BPM series hubs are tough as old Hiluxes and amazingly good on hills for a hub motor.
Want to go illegal and grin with joy? BBSHD
funinhounslow said:
Fusion777 said:
The piece about building your own ebike is nice, shame riding it on the roads at those speeds is totally illegal.
But there is a serious point there about the merits of ebikes. It is an odd reaction to increasing fuel prices to drop £20k+ on an electric car. Why not keep the ICE, run it into the ground and buy a couple of ebikes instead?
Whilst not for everyone I’m sure it would be a revelation for many people how many journeys can be ridden rather than driven. I’ve previously said if you can walk to the end of your street you can cycle 10 miles on an ebike.
My ebike also “paid for itself” within a year and I use it far more than I anticipated. To the extent that I can’t stand driving in town anymore. I’ve even seen a gardener near me who hauls all his gear on an ecargo bike and trailer.
Micro mobility is here to stay for the reasons you touched on, this isn't the 50s and EVs are as you say very unaffordable to buy and contribute just the same to global congestion issues. Many of us are also fed up with people parking in our relatives disabled space, parking on pavements preventing passage of buggies and wheelchairs, close passing cyclists just to be arrogant etc.
Look I used to be a car guy, at 19yr old I had a modified MK1 1.8 Zetec Focus mechanically modded remapped etc, had a turbo engined MK2.5 Clio that was wicked fun till the HG popped (council mods yo)
I used to live for the thrill of hammering old modified sheds at ridiculous speeds down council estates, getting my kicks on the rural Twisties my mates egging me on to see if we could ditch it onto its roof to which we did once, managed to flip it back over though.
But these days I just see metal cages as socially problematic and not fun atall to drive.
It's a radically overhauled infrastructure system we need, akin to the Nordic sensibilities. I spent a month in Copenhagen and cycled everywhere and boy was it an eye opener, the city planning is just incredible with a cycle>metro>cycle system that just works flawlessly. Metros are on time to the second. Cafe culture is huge there because of the lack of car noise and visual intrusion. You can still of course use cars there for long multiple hour journeys.
Britain isn't flat which is the biggest anti cycling argument I hear, but now with modern sophisticated ebikes you really can get up any hill effortlessly no matter how unfit you are, and I'm talking of legal machines here! Honestly a Bosch CX Performance Line motor or a Yamaha PWX WILL get anyone up any hill with a trailer full of shopping.
I'm not saying let's ban cars but let's at least get them out of our cities and for suburbia we must re-engineer our civil infrastructure so that bikes and cars can get along amiably, shared road space DOES NOT work, intelligent segregation DOES.
Sorry to rant I'm just quite passionate about this topic and I really hope the government doesn't botch it up completely, these "cycle lanes" are a joke, that's just patchwork.
Edited by T1tsortyres on Saturday 11th June 15:27
bigothunter said:
delta0 said:
Pistonheader101 said:
there has to be a way to implement charges on electric cars.
Serious question, why? T1tsortyres said:
funinhounslow said:
Fusion777 said:
The piece about building your own ebike is nice, shame riding it on the roads at those speeds is totally illegal.
But there is a serious point there about the merits of ebikes. It is an odd reaction to increasing fuel prices to drop £20k+ on an electric car. Why not keep the ICE, run it into the ground and buy a couple of ebikes instead?
Whilst not for everyone I’m sure it would be a revelation for many people how many journeys can be ridden rather than driven. I’ve previously said if you can walk to the end of your street you can cycle 10 miles on an ebike.
My ebike also “paid for itself” within a year and I use it far more than I anticipated. To the extent that I can’t stand driving in town anymore. I’ve even seen a gardener near me who hauls all his gear on an ecargo bike and trailer.
Micro mobility is here to stay for the reasons you touched on, this isn't the 50s and EVs are as you say very unaffordable to buy and contribute just the same to global congestion issues. Many of us are also fed up with people parking in our relatives disabled space, parking on pavements preventing passage of buggies and wheelchairs, close passing cyclists just to be arrogant etc.
Look I used to be a car guy, at 19yr old I had a modified MK1 1.8 Zetec Focus mechanically modded remapped etc, had a turbo engined MK2.5 Clio that was wicked fun till the HG popped (council mods yo)
I used to live for the thrill of hammering old modified sheds at ridiculous speeds down council estates, getting my kicks on the rural Twisties my mates egging me on to see if we could ditch it onto its roof to which we did once, managed to flip it back over though.
But these days I just see metal cages as socially problematic and not fun atall to drive.
It's a radically overhauled infrastructure system we need, akin to the Nordic sensibilities. I spent a month in Copenhagen and cycled everywhere and boy was it an eye opener, the city planning is just incredible with a cycle>metro>cycle system that just works flawlessly. Metros are on time to the second. Cafe culture is huge there because of the lack of car noise and visual intrusion. You can still of course use cars there for long multiple hour journeys.
Britain isn't flat which is the biggest anti cycling argument I hear, but now with modern sophisticated ebikes you really can get up any hill effortlessly no matter how unfit you are, and I'm talking of legal machines here! Honestly a Bosch CX Performance Line motor or a Yamaha PWX WILL get anyone up any hill with a trailer full of shopping.
I'm not saying let's ban cars but let's at least get them out of our cities and for suburbia we must re-engineer our civil infrastructure so that bikes and cars can get along amiably, shared road space DOES not work, intelligent segregation DOES.
Sorry to rant I'm just quite passionate about this topic and I really hope the government doesn't botch it up completely, these "cycle lanes" are a joke, that's just patchwork.
You know your e-bike is illegal right?
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