Petrol prices- when does the madness end?
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Ultimately, it was a comprehensive failure of global governments to ensure during Covid that the oil producers maintained wells as opposed to leaving the industry to have to mothball many as the oil price collapsed and the industry lost $billions. Many of the same governments also failed to maintain reserves during that period so post lockdown added to the problem by having to restock.
That’s all well and good but as soon as we’re all out of lockdown they’re making billions in profits, and not just that, billions in profit per quarter, and record profits too. You poor oil companies and shame on you governments 
Antony Moxey said:
That’s all well and good but as soon as we’re all out of lockdown they’re making billions in profits, and not just that, billions in profit per quarter, and record profits too. You poor oil companies and shame on you governments
Unfortunately playing towards the cause of socialism...bigothunter said:
Antony Moxey said:
That’s all well and good but as soon as we’re all out of lockdown they’re making billions in profits, and not just that, billions in profit per quarter, and record profits too. You poor oil companies and shame on you governments
Unfortunately playing towards the cause of socialism...Antony Moxey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Ultimately, it was a comprehensive failure of global governments to ensure during Covid that the oil producers maintained wells as opposed to leaving the industry to have to mothball many as the oil price collapsed and the industry lost $billions. Many of the same governments also failed to maintain reserves during that period so post lockdown added to the problem by having to restock.
That’s all well and good but as soon as we’re all out of lockdown they’re making billions in profits, and not just that, billions in profit per quarter, and record profits too. You poor oil companies and shame on you governments No Western government did anything to maintain oil supply during Covid. The cost and losses were specifically left for the oil companies to bear. That's absolutely fine as that's how the free market works.
But, it was obvious that once this was over there was going to be a supply squeeze which meant prices were going to spike and the population of these Western nations have to pay for higher costs. Who cares that they are making record profits? They aren't colluding. We could have paid for the wells to remain on standby like we chose to bankroll restaurant chains and all sorts of private industry.
It's just an oversight by governments who opted from the outset to allow the entire oil industry to do whatever it needed to do to stem losses. Which was rather obviously to cut supply.
Look at it logically, just what incentive does an oil producer have to maintain wells on standby if they're loss making? None. What incentive does an oil producer have to keep the price of oil down? None.
People can blame a scorpion for being a scorpion but it's not necessarily a scorpions fault that it stings someone.
DonkeyApple said:
Antony Moxey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Ultimately, it was a comprehensive failure of global governments to ensure during Covid that the oil producers maintained wells as opposed to leaving the industry to have to mothball many as the oil price collapsed and the industry lost $billions. Many of the same governments also failed to maintain reserves during that period so post lockdown added to the problem by having to restock.
That’s all well and good but as soon as we’re all out of lockdown they’re making billions in profits, and not just that, billions in profit per quarter, and record profits too. You poor oil companies and shame on you governments No Western government did anything to maintain oil supply during Covid. The cost and losses were specifically left for the oil companies to bear. That's absolutely fine as that's how the free market works.
But, it was obvious that once this was over there was going to be a supply squeeze which meant prices were going to spike and the population of these Western nations have to pay for higher costs. Who cares that they are making record profits? They aren't colluding. We could have paid for the wells to remain on standby like we chose to bankroll restaurant chains and all sorts of private industry.
It's just an oversight by governments who opted from the outset to allow the entire oil industry to do whatever it needed to do to stem losses. Which was rather obviously to cut supply.
Look at it logically, just what incentive does an oil producer have to maintain wells on standby if they're loss making? None. What incentive does an oil producer have to keep the price of oil down? None.
People can blame a scorpion for being a scorpion but it's not necessarily a scorpions fault that it stings someone.
billshoreham said:
bigothunter said:
Antony Moxey said:
That’s all well and good but as soon as we’re all out of lockdown they’re making billions in profits, and not just that, billions in profit per quarter, and record profits too. You poor oil companies and shame on you governments
Unfortunately playing towards the cause of socialism...Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings. The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.
Oh god please not a lockdown discussion !
Pro lockdowners have a special place reserved in a fiery pit as far as I’m concerned. Fell out with my mum over it say at home retired lording over the pandemic decisions whilst most industries fell on their arse ! My own industry on its knees and literally a 50/50 if I would still have a f
king job ! So no lockdown talk please 
Anyway ! Paid 179.9 for super at sainsburys yesterday which is a vast improvement of the 196.9 or whatever it was last time I went for fuel.
Pro lockdowners have a special place reserved in a fiery pit as far as I’m concerned. Fell out with my mum over it say at home retired lording over the pandemic decisions whilst most industries fell on their arse ! My own industry on its knees and literally a 50/50 if I would still have a f
king job ! So no lockdown talk please Anyway ! Paid 179.9 for super at sainsburys yesterday which is a vast improvement of the 196.9 or whatever it was last time I went for fuel.
PDP76 said:
Oh god please not a lockdown discussion !
Pro lockdowners have a special place reserved in a fiery pit as far as I’m concerned. Fell out with my mum over it say at home retired lording over the pandemic decisions whilst most industries fell on their arse ! My own industry on its knees and literally a 50/50 if I would still have a fking job ! So no lockdown talk please
Anyway ! Paid 179.9 for super at sainsburys yesterday which is a vast improvement of the 196.9 or whatever it was last time I went for fuel.
+1, perfectly putPro lockdowners have a special place reserved in a fiery pit as far as I’m concerned. Fell out with my mum over it say at home retired lording over the pandemic decisions whilst most industries fell on their arse ! My own industry on its knees and literally a 50/50 if I would still have a f
king job ! So no lockdown talk please Anyway ! Paid 179.9 for super at sainsburys yesterday which is a vast improvement of the 196.9 or whatever it was last time I went for fuel.
Antony Moxey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Antony Moxey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Ultimately, it was a comprehensive failure of global governments to ensure during Covid that the oil producers maintained wells as opposed to leaving the industry to have to mothball many as the oil price collapsed and the industry lost $billions. Many of the same governments also failed to maintain reserves during that period so post lockdown added to the problem by having to restock.
That’s all well and good but as soon as we’re all out of lockdown they’re making billions in profits, and not just that, billions in profit per quarter, and record profits too. You poor oil companies and shame on you governments No Western government did anything to maintain oil supply during Covid. The cost and losses were specifically left for the oil companies to bear. That's absolutely fine as that's how the free market works.
But, it was obvious that once this was over there was going to be a supply squeeze which meant prices were going to spike and the population of these Western nations have to pay for higher costs. Who cares that they are making record profits? They aren't colluding. We could have paid for the wells to remain on standby like we chose to bankroll restaurant chains and all sorts of private industry.
It's just an oversight by governments who opted from the outset to allow the entire oil industry to do whatever it needed to do to stem losses. Which was rather obviously to cut supply.
Look at it logically, just what incentive does an oil producer have to maintain wells on standby if they're loss making? None. What incentive does an oil producer have to keep the price of oil down? None.
People can blame a scorpion for being a scorpion but it's not necessarily a scorpions fault that it stings someone.
Here's the key: we know oil companies are positively impacted from high prices. As you observe, we knew lockdown wasn't going to be forever.
But here is the crux: we absolutely knew that oil supply was being tapered when the oil price went to near zero during lockdown and we knew that companies would very obviously be mothballing wells. They mothball because that's what's most efficient.
So none of this discussion is about propping up evil corporate oil companies but about governments stepping in to prevent the mothballing so there was no supply constraint post lockdown. Governments were the only entity with any vested interest in ensuring a smooth market. A byproduct of having maintained better supply would have been lower profits now for the oil majors.
It's nothing to do with propping anyone up other than the electorate by extending governmental oil/energy security programs to not just be about tax and storage but about supply. Which funnily enough they already are but no one thought to consider the supply aspect during lockdown! Massive global governmental oversight which is exactly why we are here now and why governments are very happy for the oil corporates to be the bad guys.
152.9p for unleaded (Essar) & he ran out on Friday, heard he is shifting 50k Ltrs a day, not sure if true or not; in town 156.9p (Shell) but still 20p more if you travel out of the area; guess taking a bigger margin on a smaller turnover means less work/organisation, not sure what the supermarkets excuse is.
Ardennes92 said:
152.9p for unleaded (Essar) & he ran out on Friday, heard he is shifting 50k Ltrs a day, not sure if true or not; in town 156.9p (Shell) but still 20p more if you travel out of the area; guess taking a bigger margin on a smaller turnover means less work/organisation, not sure what the supermarkets excuse is.
Where abouts are you? Those prices are significantly lower than generally up here in the NE. Although the trend is downward, which is good news.DonkeyApple said:
Antony Moxey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Antony Moxey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Ultimately, it was a comprehensive failure of global governments to ensure during Covid that the oil producers maintained wells as opposed to leaving the industry to have to mothball many as the oil price collapsed and the industry lost $billions. Many of the same governments also failed to maintain reserves during that period so post lockdown added to the problem by having to restock.
That’s all well and good but as soon as we’re all out of lockdown they’re making billions in profits, and not just that, billions in profit per quarter, and record profits too. You poor oil companies and shame on you governments No Western government did anything to maintain oil supply during Covid. The cost and losses were specifically left for the oil companies to bear. That's absolutely fine as that's how the free market works.
But, it was obvious that once this was over there was going to be a supply squeeze which meant prices were going to spike and the population of these Western nations have to pay for higher costs. Who cares that they are making record profits? They aren't colluding. We could have paid for the wells to remain on standby like we chose to bankroll restaurant chains and all sorts of private industry.
It's just an oversight by governments who opted from the outset to allow the entire oil industry to do whatever it needed to do to stem losses. Which was rather obviously to cut supply.
Look at it logically, just what incentive does an oil producer have to maintain wells on standby if they're loss making? None. What incentive does an oil producer have to keep the price of oil down? None.
People can blame a scorpion for being a scorpion but it's not necessarily a scorpions fault that it stings someone.
Here's the key: we know oil companies are positively impacted from high prices. As you observe, we knew lockdown wasn't going to be forever.
But here is the crux: we absolutely knew that oil supply was being tapered when the oil price went to near zero during lockdown and we knew that companies would very obviously be mothballing wells. They mothball because that's what's most efficient.
So none of this discussion is about propping up evil corporate oil companies but about governments stepping in to prevent the mothballing so there was no supply constraint post lockdown. Governments were the only entity with any vested interest in ensuring a smooth market. A byproduct of having maintained better supply would have been lower profits now for the oil majors.
It's nothing to do with propping anyone up other than the electorate by extending governmental oil/energy security programs to not just be about tax and storage but about supply. Which funnily enough they already are but no one thought to consider the supply aspect during lockdown! Massive global governmental oversight which is exactly why we are here now and why governments are very happy for the oil corporates to be the bad guys.
M1C said:
Ardennes92 said:
152.9p for unleaded (Essar) & he ran out on Friday, heard he is shifting 50k Ltrs a day, not sure if true or not; in town 156.9p (Shell) but still 20p more if you travel out of the area; guess taking a bigger margin on a smaller turnover means less work/organisation, not sure what the supermarkets excuse is.
Where abouts are you? Those prices are significantly lower than generally up here in the NE. Although the trend is downward, which is good news.Antony Moxey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Antony Moxey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Antony Moxey said:
DonkeyApple said:
Ultimately, it was a comprehensive failure of global governments to ensure during Covid that the oil producers maintained wells as opposed to leaving the industry to have to mothball many as the oil price collapsed and the industry lost $billions. Many of the same governments also failed to maintain reserves during that period so post lockdown added to the problem by having to restock.
That’s all well and good but as soon as we’re all out of lockdown they’re making billions in profits, and not just that, billions in profit per quarter, and record profits too. You poor oil companies and shame on you governments No Western government did anything to maintain oil supply during Covid. The cost and losses were specifically left for the oil companies to bear. That's absolutely fine as that's how the free market works.
But, it was obvious that once this was over there was going to be a supply squeeze which meant prices were going to spike and the population of these Western nations have to pay for higher costs. Who cares that they are making record profits? They aren't colluding. We could have paid for the wells to remain on standby like we chose to bankroll restaurant chains and all sorts of private industry.
It's just an oversight by governments who opted from the outset to allow the entire oil industry to do whatever it needed to do to stem losses. Which was rather obviously to cut supply.
Look at it logically, just what incentive does an oil producer have to maintain wells on standby if they're loss making? None. What incentive does an oil producer have to keep the price of oil down? None.
People can blame a scorpion for being a scorpion but it's not necessarily a scorpions fault that it stings someone.
Here's the key: we know oil companies are positively impacted from high prices. As you observe, we knew lockdown wasn't going to be forever.
But here is the crux: we absolutely knew that oil supply was being tapered when the oil price went to near zero during lockdown and we knew that companies would very obviously be mothballing wells. They mothball because that's what's most efficient.
So none of this discussion is about propping up evil corporate oil companies but about governments stepping in to prevent the mothballing so there was no supply constraint post lockdown. Governments were the only entity with any vested interest in ensuring a smooth market. A byproduct of having maintained better supply would have been lower profits now for the oil majors.
It's nothing to do with propping anyone up other than the electorate by extending governmental oil/energy security programs to not just be about tax and storage but about supply. Which funnily enough they already are but no one thought to consider the supply aspect during lockdown! Massive global governmental oversight which is exactly why we are here now and why governments are very happy for the oil corporates to be the bad guys.
Shiv_P said:
Costco generally make very little money on the fuel or even a small loss, so here is actual pricing for you
The chap behind me only put a tenner in, and then was too brain-dead to be able to wiggle his car through the huge gap between me and the pump opposite.
He probably burned more than he put in queueing and then waiting to get out...
Antony Moxey said:
But what I’m saying is the governments didn’t need to do anything because the oil companies didn’t need to do anything. They knew we’d return to normal sooner or later so there was no need to mothball anything. They might have lost billions then but have since made it all back and more.
That's the key. We all knew we'd be back out but there was no down side to companies mothballing wells. As a business it was exactly the correct thing to do to limit losses. Plus, no downside as any supply squeeze when we eventually came out would have yielded great profits. Conversely, governments also knew this but forgot to do anything at all regarding energy security.
Governments didn't even stock up on oil during lockdown when it cost nothing but instead ran reserves down
Companies have an obligation to shareholders and employees. Governments have an obligation to their people and one of those obligations is energy security which they all completely forgot about. So instead of ensuring the companies didn't do the right thing for their shareholders which was to mothball by keeping these wells on standby they did nothing.
The failure does very much lie with the entities that have the obligation to ensure energy supply as well as the responsibility to protect their electorate from unnecessary price action.
ingenieur said:
My view is whatever way you slice it, covid forced the oil companies to take a massive hit. I believe they had substantial losses during 2019/2020... so they have to make profits now to stay in business. Some of what they lost would have been paid for by surpluses generated during previous years. Some of it from mothballing. Some of it by charging more in the following years. Profits are then reinvested back into development of future energy supplies, good causes and 'windfall' taxes.
The oil majors were all able to handle those losses. Companies like BP lost £20bn but had a balance sheet to easily soak that up. But if governments had stepped in to force supply to be maintained then we wouldn't have had this huge price spike and the mega profits now being made. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff