RE: RPM Technik 718 Cayman GT4 MR | PH Review

RE: RPM Technik 718 Cayman GT4 MR | PH Review

Author
Discussion

Oz83

688 posts

139 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
Jon_S_Rally said:
£6k is a huge amount of money for what is basically two cogs. It's only £2K less than a Dacia Sandero, which comes with whole box full of cogs, along with an engine, body shell, wiring loom, interior, wheels, suspension etc etc. Massive Porsche tax being applied there, without a doubt.

You could try someone like Gripper or MFactory. If there is a market, they might be interested in producing one.
When I contacted RPM last year, the CW&P was actually just over £2600 +VAT, so not a million miles away from the £2k figure that has been mentioned here.

The rest of the £5500 was made up with labour, gaskets, seals, shims, oil etc. I'm sure a qualified specialist will have similar rates for this type of work. The biggest difference to me is that you have more come back and peace of mind if everything is done under one roof.


cerb4.5lee

30,614 posts

180 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
I'd really like a go in one of these, but I can't say that the colour scheme on this one does much for me though.

jason61c

5,978 posts

174 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
Oz83 said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
£6k is a huge amount of money for what is basically two cogs. It's only £2K less than a Dacia Sandero, which comes with whole box full of cogs, along with an engine, body shell, wiring loom, interior, wheels, suspension etc etc. Massive Porsche tax being applied there, without a doubt.

You could try someone like Gripper or MFactory. If there is a market, they might be interested in producing one.
When I contacted RPM last year, the CW&P was actually just over £2600 +VAT, so not a million miles away from the £2k figure that has been mentioned here.

The rest of the £5500 was made up with labour, gaskets, seals, shims, oil etc. I'm sure a qualified specialist will have similar rates for this type of work. The biggest difference to me is that you have more come back and peace of mind if everything is done under one roof.

that 2k would be for a total one off, it should be about £1k. Massive massive rpm tax being added.

Nice to see that they're reviewing the pug version also.

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-spottedykywt/p...

jimmytheone

1,371 posts

218 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
Evolved said:
Eye watering pricing. The demo car looks pants with that paint/graphic scheme too!

I’d much prefer the standard car and use the £50k (ouch) to buy something else to complement it.

Made me think of this.
Seems PH thought so too, judging by todays SPOTTED

Wab1974uk

996 posts

27 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
Jon_S_Rally said:
£6k is a huge amount of money for what is basically two cogs. It's only £2K less than a Dacia Sandero, which comes with whole box full of cogs, along with an engine, body shell, wiring loom, interior, wheels, suspension etc etc. Massive Porsche tax being applied there, without a doubt.

You could try someone like Gripper or MFactory. If there is a market, they might be interested in producing one.
I think the fact you keep your Porsche warranty, probably means it's money well spent.

And how dare a company charge more than what it's costs them to develop, manufacturer, and install. I'm offended !!

pSyCoSiS

3,597 posts

205 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
That's one hell of an upgrade package to an already great car. I wonder if it will hold its residuals as well as the standard GT4?

Red 5

1,055 posts

180 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
pSyCoSiS said:
That's one hell of an upgrade package to an already great car. I wonder if it will hold its residuals as well as the standard GT4?
The Manthey Racing parts/package will increase the value, but narrow the potential audience. Warranty / factory approved.
The RPM parts are just aftermarket modifications. However good, or effective, they will have no positive residual effect and will also narrow the audience.

big_rob_sydney

3,403 posts

194 months

Monday 9th May 2022
quotequote all
Wab1974uk said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
£6k is a huge amount of money for what is basically two cogs. It's only £2K less than a Dacia Sandero, which comes with whole box full of cogs, along with an engine, body shell, wiring loom, interior, wheels, suspension etc etc. Massive Porsche tax being applied there, without a doubt.

You could try someone like Gripper or MFactory. If there is a market, they might be interested in producing one.
I think the fact you keep your Porsche warranty, probably means it's money well spent.

And how dare a company charge more than what it's costs them to develop, manufacturer, and install. I'm offended !!
There's charging more than what it's costs them to develop, and then there's pulling your pants down and bending you over a barrel. Without lube. And then there's RPM... pliers and a blowtorch come to mind.

Jon_S_Rally

3,406 posts

88 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
Wab1974uk said:
I think the fact you keep your Porsche warranty, probably means it's money well spent.

And how dare a company charge more than what it's costs them to develop, manufacturer, and install. I'm offended !!
I have nothing against a company making profit. But there is a difference between making profit and shafting people. If Porsche owners think it's good value, good luck to them, but that doesn't mean I have to.

200Plus Club

10,756 posts

278 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
Red 5 said:
The Manthey Racing parts/package will increase the value, but narrow the potential audience. Warranty / factory approved.
The RPM parts are just aftermarket modifications. However good, or effective, they will have no positive residual effect and will also narrow the audience.
There was a 981 for sale recently advertised with the diff package. Was priced slightly higher than the usual but was hanging around a while, no idea if it sold with a premium price in end though.
Could work either way for 2nd hand market in terms of appeal definitely.

Twinfan

10,125 posts

104 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
Wab1974uk said:
Jon_S_Rally said:
£6k is a huge amount of money for what is basically two cogs. It's only £2K less than a Dacia Sandero, which comes with whole box full of cogs, along with an engine, body shell, wiring loom, interior, wheels, suspension etc etc. Massive Porsche tax being applied there, without a doubt.

You could try someone like Gripper or MFactory. If there is a market, they might be interested in producing one.
I think the fact you keep your Porsche warranty, probably means it's money well spent.

And how dare a company charge more than what it's costs them to develop, manufacturer, and install. I'm offended !!
The gearing mod isn't Mathey, it's RPM, so you won't keep your warranty.

Only the core Manthey kit is potentially warranty approved, although Ive not seen that officially confirmed unlike for the GT2RS and GT3RS kits.

Pflanzgarten

3,942 posts

25 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
Jon_S_Rally said:
£6k is a huge amount of money for what is basically two cogs. It's only £2K less than a Dacia Sandero, which comes with whole box full of cogs, along with an engine, body shell, wiring loom, interior, wheels, suspension etc etc.
You make a good point actually.

RacerMike

4,205 posts

211 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
Olivera said:
Twinfan said:
If you want to rev it out without going silly speeds you've bought the wrong car. Why anyone buys a modern 420bhp car expecting to be able to thrash the nuts off it everywhere is beyond me.

Do what I do - take it on track and enjoy it there several times a year.
Arguably the stock GT4 gearing is bad even on track. On some short UK tracks you'll be lucky to get out of 3rd, and 4th goes to 142mph. So you'll be using at best 3 gears out of a six speed box.
The whole gearing 'issue' is one entirely created off the back of that one Chris Harris review at Portimao in the 981. All 981 Caymans had the same ratios from launch and no one ever even mentioned it. Even the GT3 gearing is within 5mph in 2nd and you don't hear people complaining about breaking the speed limit in 2nd in them do you?

On track, any cars gearing is compromised on certain circuits. I went with my mate to Croft at the weekend.....he was in his GT2 RS and mentioned that the tiny straight between the penultimate and last corner was between 2nd and 3rd and really awkward. First world problems eh?! Even race cars have the same issue. My Caterham Supersport was basically 3rd and 4th gear everywhere and the current GT4 Aston Martin Vantage has a 2nd gear so short it's only appropriate for corners like Turn 1 at Nurburgring GP. Everywhere else it's using 2-3 gears. It's only ever an issue though if your looking for it.

Much like the terrible rear suspension kinematics that no reviewer ever mentions, but many of us who regularly track a GT4 are more than aware of. I'm almost certain 90% of owners who drive them on track don't have the experience to know why they get oversteer in high speed corners other than to say think they pushed too hard. The contrast between what 3 or 3RS feels like to a 4 in terms of high speed confidence is stark. I (and many others) would far rather Porsche spent the money fitting proper suspension that doesn't have horrible camber gain or roll centre migration to the rear end than waste a few million developing a new bespoke gear set.

Have a look at my onboard from Sunday and tell me what's more of an issue. Mid corner instability or gearing....


HokumPokum

2,051 posts

205 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
that looks pretty bad .

Can you describe what type of mid corner oversteer ie under what type of brake/throttle and which phase of the corner it usually appears? Tx

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

234 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
Olivera said:
Twinfan said:
If you want to rev it out without going silly speeds you've bought the wrong car. Why anyone buys a modern 420bhp car expecting to be able to thrash the nuts off it everywhere is beyond me.

Do what I do - take it on track and enjoy it there several times a year.
Arguably the stock GT4 gearing is bad even on track. On some short UK tracks you'll be lucky to get out of 3rd, and 4th goes to 142mph. So you'll be using at best 3 gears out of a six speed box.
The whole gearing 'issue' is one entirely created off the back of that one Chris Harris review at Portimao in the 981. All 981 Caymans had the same ratios from launch and no one ever even mentioned it. Even the GT3 gearing is within 5mph in 2nd and you don't hear people complaining about breaking the speed limit in 2nd in them do you?

On track, any cars gearing is compromised on certain circuits. I went with my mate to Croft at the weekend.....he was in his GT2 RS and mentioned that the tiny straight between the penultimate and last corner was between 2nd and 3rd and really awkward. First world problems eh?! Even race cars have the same issue. My Caterham Supersport was basically 3rd and 4th gear everywhere and the current GT4 Aston Martin Vantage has a 2nd gear so short it's only appropriate for corners like Turn 1 at Nurburgring GP. Everywhere else it's using 2-3 gears. It's only ever an issue though if your looking for it.

Much like the terrible rear suspension kinematics that no reviewer ever mentions, but many of us who regularly track a GT4 are more than aware of. I'm almost certain 90% of owners who drive them on track don't have the experience to know why they get oversteer in high speed corners other than to say think they pushed too hard. The contrast between what 3 or 3RS feels like to a 4 in terms of high speed confidence is stark. I (and many others) would far rather Porsche spent the money fitting proper suspension that doesn't have horrible camber gain or roll centre migration to the rear end than waste a few million developing a new bespoke gear set.

Have a look at my onboard from Sunday and tell me what's more of an issue. Mid corner instability or gearing....

I think you should buy yourself some new trousers as there appears to be a gaping hole in them.

RacerMike

4,205 posts

211 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
SidewaysSi said:
I think you should buy yourself some new trousers as there appears to be a gaping hole in them.
Superleggera jeans. Worth at least 2 tenths.

RacerMike

4,205 posts

211 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
HokumPokum said:
that looks pretty bad .

Can you describe what type of mid corner oversteer ie under what type of brake/throttle and which phase of the corner it usually appears? Tx
It’s mid corner as the car loads up and the rear starts to roll. You can ‘fix’ it by stopping roll. That means stiffest setting on the rear arb and more camber as a road car, or new dampers with the compression damping turned right up and highly aggressive static camber. The race cars basically do this, but for the road it doesn’t really work, but all you’re really doing is moving the behaviour further and further up the grip making it more and more snappy when it eventually gets there. It’s not uncommon to see people crash the race cars getting a huge stab of oversteer mid corner, and then flying off in the opposite direction as it grips up again.

Autoquest in the US do an IRS kit and explain the kinematic issues very well.

https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-09

Escy

3,932 posts

149 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
The whole gearing 'issue' is one entirely created off the back of that one Chris Harris review at Portimao in the 981. All 981 Caymans had the same ratios from launch and no one ever even mentioned it. Even the GT3 gearing is within 5mph in 2nd and you don't hear people complaining about breaking the speed limit in 2nd in them do you?
Do the base models have the same rev limit?

RacerMike

4,205 posts

211 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
Escy said:
RacerMike said:
The whole gearing 'issue' is one entirely created off the back of that one Chris Harris review at Portimao in the 981. All 981 Caymans had the same ratios from launch and no one ever even mentioned it. Even the GT3 gearing is within 5mph in 2nd and you don't hear people complaining about breaking the speed limit in 2nd in them do you?
Do the base models have the same rev limit?
The 981 GT4 and the 3.4 S engine had the same Rev limit yes.

GTRene

16,551 posts

224 months

Tuesday 10th May 2022
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
Have a look at my onboard from Sunday and tell me what's more of an issue. Mid corner instability or gearing....

That GT4 sounds great, also good power, is all standard or some little changes to engine tune/exhaust/inlet?