Large capacity engines. Very sought after or hot potato?
Discussion
BrettMRC said:
H_4_ESC said:
I suppose it is that they need more fettling (patience)to keep on the road than say an old Ford or Triumph. There is always something that needs doing, so you have to be dedicated. I have been trying to find an oil leak on my Chim on and off for about the last 15 years. Had a Specialist take the engine out, new head gaskets/valley/rocker covers and sump sealed and it is still dropping as badly as it was before! Had an endoscope to it, spent hours looking around the back of the engine and underneath and still cannot see where it is coming from! Frustrating is not the word! That is the reason I think TVRs aren’t going up in value, they aren’t the easiest of things to live with.
This is the most TVR thing I have ever heard! 
I had period of unreliability with an old classic with a reputation for unreliability (Alfa). Thankfully the Alfa was made reliable quite easily but it did turn me off cars that I knew I wouldn't be able to trust, e.g. a Cerbera, that I wanted to use for day trips with the family, along with a few track days and the usual weekend fun etc.
The W204 C63 is an interesting one. There are so many that were sold but the engine is an absolute icon.
I reckon prices will diverge dramatically, similar to complex old stuff like the original 300SEL 6.3 and some Rolls/Bentleys etc - pristine high-spec ones will be sought after and command good money, whereas everything in average/old condition will absolutely tank because there are too many dogs out there that will cost too much to restore properly.
I reckon prices will diverge dramatically, similar to complex old stuff like the original 300SEL 6.3 and some Rolls/Bentleys etc - pristine high-spec ones will be sought after and command good money, whereas everything in average/old condition will absolutely tank because there are too many dogs out there that will cost too much to restore properly.
I think nice big engines in reasonably desirable cars will appreciate at some point, such a good straight 6s, V8s, or even some highly rated 4 pots such as the Honda Type R V-Tecs. Those that give a good impression of combusion motoring, not the mundane crap.
I suppose the 'one below the best' models will do well. I'm thinking E46 330i manuals etc., Golf GTIs, C43 AMGs etc. All special enough now to hold a certain appeal to many, and moreso when EVs rule. I guess the model plays a factor alongside the engine and transmission package, i.e. an E46 330i will probably be a lot more desirable than an E60 530i, as they've got a bigger fan base now.
I suppose the 'one below the best' models will do well. I'm thinking E46 330i manuals etc., Golf GTIs, C43 AMGs etc. All special enough now to hold a certain appeal to many, and moreso when EVs rule. I guess the model plays a factor alongside the engine and transmission package, i.e. an E46 330i will probably be a lot more desirable than an E60 530i, as they've got a bigger fan base now.
H_4_ESC said:
I suppose it is that they need more fettling (patience)to keep on the road than say an old Ford or Triumph. There is always something that needs doing, so you have to be dedicated. I have been trying to find an oil leak on my Chim on and off for about the last 15 years. Had a Specialist take the engine out, new head gaskets/valley/rocker covers and sump sealed and it is still dropping as badly as it was before! Had an endoscope to it, spent hours looking around the back of the engine and underneath and still cannot see where it is coming from! Frustrating is not the word! That is the reason I think TVRs aren’t going up in value, they aren’t the easiest of things to live with.
I suspect I have the usual TVR owner's approachIgnore it or stick a drip tray under it
braddo said:
BrettMRC said:
H_4_ESC said:
I suppose it is that they need more fettling (patience)to keep on the road than say an old Ford or Triumph. There is always something that needs doing, so you have to be dedicated. I have been trying to find an oil leak on my Chim on and off for about the last 15 years. Had a Specialist take the engine out, new head gaskets/valley/rocker covers and sump sealed and it is still dropping as badly as it was before! Had an endoscope to it, spent hours looking around the back of the engine and underneath and still cannot see where it is coming from! Frustrating is not the word! That is the reason I think TVRs aren’t going up in value, they aren’t the easiest of things to live with.
This is the most TVR thing I have ever heard! I had period of unreliability with an old classic with a reputation for unreliability (Alfa). Thankfully the Alfa was made reliable quite easily but it did turn me off cars that I knew I wouldn't be able to trust, e.g. a Cerbera, that I wanted to use for day trips with the family, along with a few track days and the usual weekend fun etc.
I used a specialist for years, but then the owner left, a lot of the good staff left with them, which led to a loss of a lot of customers, me included after they damaged my paintwork and refused to do anything about it. It's then when you go to a proper specialist you find all th work that was paid for that hadn't been done, or was bodged...
Chims are very easy to live with, quote simple mechanics. Cerberas need a little more attention but still has been reliable, with many journeys around the UK and continent. Most stuff with mine has been electrical niggles due to dirty connectors
braddo said:
The W204 C63 is an interesting one. There are so many that were sold but the engine is an absolute icon.
I reckon prices will diverge dramatically, similar to complex old stuff like the original 300SEL 6.3 and some Rolls/Bentleys etc - pristine high-spec ones will be sought after and command good money, whereas everything in average/old condition will absolutely tank because there are too many dogs out there that will cost too much to restore properly.
C63 will follow the same trend as M3s and a lot of performance Japanese cars. At the moment their 100s out there and falling to a price where less scrupulous owners are running them on the cheap. I reckon prices will diverge dramatically, similar to complex old stuff like the original 300SEL 6.3 and some Rolls/Bentleys etc - pristine high-spec ones will be sought after and command good money, whereas everything in average/old condition will absolutely tank because there are too many dogs out there that will cost too much to restore properly.
There will come a point where the poor ones will die off and then the well kept, well spec’d ones will start to rocket.
I don't have the fetish for engine size that many PH members seem to have.
Regardless of the CC, IMO the thing to do is to get something now that's not too far off 30 odd years old. That way when the really punitive taxes start hitting, hopefully you'll avoid it assuming the rule for 40+ year old classics still applies.
My MR2 is 35. I'm looking forward to the days when I'll be paying no tax on it. Not too long to go now.
Regardless of the CC, IMO the thing to do is to get something now that's not too far off 30 odd years old. That way when the really punitive taxes start hitting, hopefully you'll avoid it assuming the rule for 40+ year old classics still applies.
My MR2 is 35. I'm looking forward to the days when I'll be paying no tax on it. Not too long to go now.
SpookyTheFirst said:
I feel very concerned by this thread… as I just bought an Aventador (6.5L) and already have a DB9 (6L).
I was able to convince myself that high performance ICE cars vs EV will become like mechanical watches vs quartz….
Read what you've just written - I don't think you need to be that concerned I was able to convince myself that high performance ICE cars vs EV will become like mechanical watches vs quartz….
H_4_ESC said:
I suppose it is that they need more fettling (patience)to keep on the road than say an old Ford or Triumph. There is always something that needs doing, so you have to be dedicated. I have been trying to find an oil leak on my Chim on and off for about the last 15 years. Had a Specialist take the engine out, new head gaskets/valley/rocker covers and sump sealed and it is still dropping as badly as it was before! Had an endoscope to it, spent hours looking around the back of the engine and underneath and still cannot see where it is coming from! Frustrating is not the word! That is the reason I think TVRs aren’t going up in value, they aren’t the easiest of things to live with.
volvos60s60 said:
H_4_ESC said:
I suppose it is that they need more fettling (patience)to keep on the road than say an old Ford or Triumph. There is always something that needs doing, so you have to be dedicated. I have been trying to find an oil leak on my Chim on and off for about the last 15 years. Had a Specialist take the engine out, new head gaskets/valley/rocker covers and sump sealed and it is still dropping as badly as it was before! Had an endoscope to it, spent hours looking around the back of the engine and underneath and still cannot see where it is coming from! Frustrating is not the word! That is the reason I think TVRs aren’t going up in value, they aren’t the easiest of things to live with.
I believe that TVR enthusiasts actually like oil leaks, it gives them that warm fluffy feeling that comes with the knowledge that your engine does at least have some oil in it......
KarlMac said:
braddo said:
The W204 C63 is an interesting one. There are so many that were sold but the engine is an absolute icon.
I reckon prices will diverge dramatically, similar to complex old stuff like the original 300SEL 6.3 and some Rolls/Bentleys etc - pristine high-spec ones will be sought after and command good money, whereas everything in average/old condition will absolutely tank because there are too many dogs out there that will cost too much to restore properly.
I reckon prices will diverge dramatically, similar to complex old stuff like the original 300SEL 6.3 and some Rolls/Bentleys etc - pristine high-spec ones will be sought after and command good money, whereas everything in average/old condition will absolutely tank because there are too many dogs out there that will cost too much to restore properly.
C63 will follow the same trend as M3s and a lot of performance Japanese cars. At the moment their 100s out there and falling to a price where less scrupulous owners are running them on the cheap.
There will come a point where the poor ones will die off and then the well kept, well spec’d ones will start to rocket.
Taita said:
I wonder if the 450 BHP ones will remain special, or only the 507 BHP special editions.
The early coupes are being ragged to death at the moment, don’t think their going to age well at all.
But then again I could be totally wrong, the C36/C43/C55 are still fairly sensibly priced, but I suppose they weren’t the cultural phenomenon the C63 was.
Well yesterday I sold my Challenger Hellcat. In case anyone doesn't know that's a 6.2l supercharged V8, with 707hp.
Had it 4 and a half grin inducing years and felt very sad to see it go. But. I didn't sell it due to any worries about the future, petrol prices or for thoughts of entering the EV market. I sold it primarily to help fund a property purchase in Spain.
ETA - I still have a V8 Mustang in the garage
Had it 4 and a half grin inducing years and felt very sad to see it go. But. I didn't sell it due to any worries about the future, petrol prices or for thoughts of entering the EV market. I sold it primarily to help fund a property purchase in Spain.
ETA - I still have a V8 Mustang in the garage
Edited by AndySheff on Thursday 19th May 13:17
Interesting subject as I am one of those who bit the bullet and bought a 2008 XJR earlier this year as a 'last opportunity to own a supercharged V8' sort of purchase.
It would be nice if cars like these remain desirable, but my thinking is if I just keep it until I'm not allowed to use it anymore I will have had plenty of use and enjoyment out of it to not be too upset if it ends up being worth next to nothing, whether that's because the highest-polluting cars are banned from the roads or the VED gets out of control (it's already in the £630 bracket being post-06). Whether the fact it's arguably the ultimate 'traditional' Jag before the design language changed and pretty rare being a facelift XJR means it fits into the 'special' bracket, I'm not sure.
It would be nice if cars like these remain desirable, but my thinking is if I just keep it until I'm not allowed to use it anymore I will have had plenty of use and enjoyment out of it to not be too upset if it ends up being worth next to nothing, whether that's because the highest-polluting cars are banned from the roads or the VED gets out of control (it's already in the £630 bracket being post-06). Whether the fact it's arguably the ultimate 'traditional' Jag before the design language changed and pretty rare being a facelift XJR means it fits into the 'special' bracket, I'm not sure.
KarlMac said:
Taita said:
I wonder if the 450 BHP ones will remain special, or only the 507 BHP special editions.
The early coupes are being ragged to death at the moment, don’t think their going to age well at all.
But then again I could be totally wrong, the C36/C43/C55 are still fairly sensibly priced, but I suppose they weren’t the cultural phenomenon the C63 was.
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