RE: Incredible Prodrive P25 revealed ahead of debut
Discussion
trails said:
jsf said:
RB Will said:
It was a proper bubble burst for me too. I got to poke around it and sit in it on a Prodrive tour a couple of years ago.
I guess it was only a test mule really but after all the rave reviews I was shocked by quite how shonky it was up close inside and out. Have seen better put together kit cars.
Dunno if the P2 was ever planned for sale either?
Apparently it is broken and they don’t ever intend to fix it
The interesting thing in the P2 was the way the drivetrain worked.I guess it was only a test mule really but after all the rave reviews I was shocked by quite how shonky it was up close inside and out. Have seen better put together kit cars.
Dunno if the P2 was ever planned for sale either?
Apparently it is broken and they don’t ever intend to fix it
What was so special about the drivetrain John?
jsf said:
If its built properly, it should only need a basic service with fluids and brake wear components.
Some years ago I saw the Prodrive maintenance invoice for an S7 that was still under contract with them. EVERY minute accounted for itemised and billed.Collect car (time, mileage, fuel) time to unload car, time to move car to wash bay, time to wash car, time to move car into the workshop. ALL billed by the minute.
If I didn’t know better, I’d say there was an accountant at the top of the tree...
KarlMac said:
At least one of the three coming to Sheffield has a blue interior and gold wheels, so there’s clearly massive scope for buying spec.
Feels like I’ve emerged from a time machine back in 2001 now everyone’s moaning about the interior.
I have a similar vintage Evo RS... If you're focused on how sFeels like I’ve emerged from a time machine back in 2001 now everyone’s moaning about the interior.
tty the interior is when driving one, you're not pedalling hard enough.Just watched it go up the hill at GW... Got to agree
with an earlier poster... Really doesn't sound right
Slippydiff said:
jsf said:
If its built properly, it should only need a basic service with fluids and brake wear components.
Some years ago I saw the Prodrive maintenance invoice for an S7 that was still under contract with them. EVERY minute accounted for itemised and billed.Collect car (time, mileage, fuel) time to unload car, time to move car to wash bay, time to wash car, time to move car into the workshop. ALL billed by the minute.
If I didn’t know better, I’d say there was an accountant at the top of the tree...
The world has gone mad. trails said:
I’ve been told that it’s broken and they haven’t got any interest in fixing it too…consigned to the failbox maybe.
What was so special about the drivetrain John?
They should give me the car then. What was so special about the drivetrain John?
Damian Harty was in charge of a project called ATD, which combined an active centre and rear diff with an electronics package that was using a sensor pack with accelerometers combined with yaw, G sensors and a steering position sensor, he made a video during the early stages of the design. https://youtu.be/SMgvVxR5VLE
The way i understood it at the time was that it did a similar job to the WRC systems, without the need for high pressure hydraulics, unfortunately i never got the chance to delve into it or drive it, but it looked promising. I don't know why it never went any further.
Slippydiff said:
Some years ago I saw the Prodrive maintenance invoice for an S7 that was still under contract with them. EVERY minute accounted for itemised and billed.
Collect car (time, mileage, fuel) time to unload car, time to move car to wash bay, time to wash car, time to move car into the workshop. ALL billed by the minute.
As you would expect, it's a motorsport business. People often underestimate the costs of running a race or rally car with professional engineers and mechanics doing the work, it's not a clubman car with a few mates helping out. Hourly rates are usually well below what you would pay for a main dealer, but the hours required are infinitely larger on a proper competition car.Collect car (time, mileage, fuel) time to unload car, time to move car to wash bay, time to wash car, time to move car into the workshop. ALL billed by the minute.
The idea behind this car is for it to give a high degree of performance without the need for motorsport levels of maintenance, it's a road car.
jsf said:
As you would expect, it's a motorsport business. People often underestimate the costs of running a race or rally car with professional engineers and mechanics doing the work, it's not a clubman car with a few mates helping out. Hourly rates are usually well below what you would pay for a main dealer, but the hours required are infinitely larger on a proper competition car.
The idea behind this car is for it to give a high degree of performance without the need for motorsport levels of maintenance, it's a road car.
Thanks, I’m aware of precisely what it is, and the implications for its ongoing maintenance. The idea behind this car is for it to give a high degree of performance without the need for motorsport levels of maintenance, it's a road car.
It’s a bespoke half million pound roadgoing Impreza, and I’d be somewhat surprised if owners will be expected to pop it in to their local Subaru dealer for its first service...
Ergo it’s possible/probable Prodrive will make a small service facility available for the cars, or they’ll designate someone/a company to do the same. If it’s the former, expect eye watering bills and parts prices, if it’s the latter, expect slightly reduced labour costs and even higher parts prices.
My previous post was solely to illustrate, that just because you’ve bought an expensive product off Prodrive, thinking the ongoing maintenance/parts costs will be anything but exorbitant, would be misguided.
KJH said:
Have there been any proper pictures or video of it from Goodwood yet?
From the official Goodwood channel.InfamousK said:
KJH said:
Have there been any proper pictures or video of it from Goodwood yet?
From the official Goodwood channel.Someone at Prodrive must be reading this thread
InfamousK said:
KJH said:
Have there been any proper pictures or video of it from Goodwood yet?
From the official Goodwood channel.jsf said:
trails said:
I’ve been told that it’s broken and they haven’t got any interest in fixing it too…consigned to the failbox maybe.
What was so special about the drivetrain John?
They should give me the car then. What was so special about the drivetrain John?
Damian Harty was in charge of a project called ATD, which combined an active centre and rear diff with an electronics package that was using a sensor pack with accelerometers combined with yaw, G sensors and a steering position sensor, he made a video during the early stages of the design. https://youtu.be/SMgvVxR5VLE
The way i understood it at the time was that it did a similar job to the WRC systems, without the need for high pressure hydraulics, unfortunately i never got the chance to delve into it or drive it, but it looked promising. I don't know why it never went any further.
A load of poorly thought-through, last minute, cobbled together mish mash of WRC and std scooby parts very badly packaged into a body about 2/3rd too small to hold them. Nothing worked, everything was a bodge,basically a concept car, and a terrible one at that.
ATD never "caught on" for road cars because it could only control yaw under positive torque and the first thing any normal driver does when things go soouth is lift off meaning there is to torque to apportion! Manufacturers like Audi eventually did there own version and active diffs and torque apportioning became common place for high performance cars, whereas braking yaw control via ABS/DSC became near universal for most cars.
The biggest issue that wasn't solved for ATD that modern systems have eventually sorted is how faithfully to follow the handwheel input. The problem is, most drivers instinctively add opposite lock when oversteering, which ATD takes to mean "now turn the other way" which is generally not what is actually wanted......
Max_Torque said:
The P2 was probably almost certainly the biggest heap of s**t i ever worked on at Prodrive.....
A load of poorly thought-through, last minute, cobbled together mish mash of WRC and std scooby parts very badly packaged into a body about 2/3rd too small to hold them. Nothing worked, everything was a bodge,basically a concept car, and a terrible one at that.
ATD never "caught on" for road cars because it could only control yaw under positive torque and the first thing any normal driver does when things go soouth is lift off meaning there is to torque to apportion! Manufacturers like Audi eventually did there own version and active diffs and torque apportioning became common place for high performance cars, whereas braking yaw control via ABS/DSC became near universal for most cars.
The biggest issue that wasn't solved for ATD that modern systems have eventually sorted is how faithfully to follow the handwheel input. The problem is, most drivers instinctively add opposite lock when oversteering, which ATD takes to mean "now turn the other way" which is generally not what is actually wanted......
So in the video, am I right in thinking the Evo was turned in off the throttle and the ATD car was steady state? A load of poorly thought-through, last minute, cobbled together mish mash of WRC and std scooby parts very badly packaged into a body about 2/3rd too small to hold them. Nothing worked, everything was a bodge,basically a concept car, and a terrible one at that.
ATD never "caught on" for road cars because it could only control yaw under positive torque and the first thing any normal driver does when things go soouth is lift off meaning there is to torque to apportion! Manufacturers like Audi eventually did there own version and active diffs and torque apportioning became common place for high performance cars, whereas braking yaw control via ABS/DSC became near universal for most cars.
The biggest issue that wasn't solved for ATD that modern systems have eventually sorted is how faithfully to follow the handwheel input. The problem is, most drivers instinctively add opposite lock when oversteering, which ATD takes to mean "now turn the other way" which is generally not what is actually wanted......
CarCrazyDad said:
InfamousK said:
KJH said:
Have there been any proper pictures or video of it from Goodwood yet?
From the official Goodwood channel.take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
Max_Torque said:
The P2 was probably almost certainly the biggest heap of s**t i ever worked on at Prodrive.....
A load of poorly thought-through, last minute, cobbled together mish mash of WRC and std scooby parts very badly packaged into a body about 2/3rd too small to hold them. Nothing worked, everything was a bodge,basically a concept car, and a terrible one at that.
ATD never "caught on" for road cars because it could only control yaw under positive torque and the first thing any normal driver does when things go soouth is lift off meaning there is to torque to apportion! Manufacturers like Audi eventually did there own version and active diffs and torque apportioning became common place for high performance cars, whereas braking yaw control via ABS/DSC became near universal for most cars.
The biggest issue that wasn't solved for ATD that modern systems have eventually sorted is how faithfully to follow the handwheel input. The problem is, most drivers instinctively add opposite lock when oversteering, which ATD takes to mean "now turn the other way" which is generally not what is actually wanted......
So in the video, am I right in thinking the Evo was turned in off the throttle and the ATD car was steady state? A load of poorly thought-through, last minute, cobbled together mish mash of WRC and std scooby parts very badly packaged into a body about 2/3rd too small to hold them. Nothing worked, everything was a bodge,basically a concept car, and a terrible one at that.
ATD never "caught on" for road cars because it could only control yaw under positive torque and the first thing any normal driver does when things go soouth is lift off meaning there is to torque to apportion! Manufacturers like Audi eventually did there own version and active diffs and torque apportioning became common place for high performance cars, whereas braking yaw control via ABS/DSC became near universal for most cars.
The biggest issue that wasn't solved for ATD that modern systems have eventually sorted is how faithfully to follow the handwheel input. The problem is, most drivers instinctively add opposite lock when oversteering, which ATD takes to mean "now turn the other way" which is generally not what is actually wanted......
The fuundamental reason the EVO spins and the scoob doesn't is roll stiffness distribution and engine location. Scoobs broadly understeer because they were never very stiff across the back and because their engine is way up front, EVO's pretty much oversteer fundamentally for the opposite reasons.
ATD vs non ATD in a scood did make a difference, and one that could be fetl and measured, but the cost and complexity of the system made that a non starter for production. Std scoobs obviously got the DCCD centre diff, but with their fundamental layout as mentioned, that really was never going to make that much difference (front tyres are always going to overload first).
My fav handling scoob was actually a SpecC which had had its front drive shafts removed, making it rwd only.......... Basically a forerunner to a GT-86 turbo by about 20 years :-)
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