RE: Incredible Prodrive P25 revealed ahead of debut
Discussion
I'm not sure why everyone is moaning about the cost when a few weeks back there were only a handful left for sale. I presume now all the build slots have been taken so the price is a mute point.
On the basis most of it is bespoke especially some of the large value drivetrain components, £500k is on the money. To have 25 of anything made is always going to have a large tooling/design cost and to spread that over such a small build number has its financial consequences.
On the basis most of it is bespoke especially some of the large value drivetrain components, £500k is on the money. To have 25 of anything made is always going to have a large tooling/design cost and to spread that over such a small build number has its financial consequences.
"And if you’re thinking "Lordy", there is also a WRC-style ‘fly-off’ hydraulic handbrake, which automatically disengages the centre differential to remove drive to the rear wheels."
It doesn't do that.
It opens up the centre diff clutch pack, the mechanical link via the sun and planet gears stay engaged creating an open diff, which allows the front and rear to rotate at different speeds. If you applied torque via the engine, it would still try to drive the rear wheels.
It doesn't do that.
It opens up the centre diff clutch pack, the mechanical link via the sun and planet gears stay engaged creating an open diff, which allows the front and rear to rotate at different speeds. If you applied torque via the engine, it would still try to drive the rear wheels.
Nad said:
I'm not sure why everyone is moaning about the cost when a few weeks back there were only a handful left for sale. I presume now all the build slots have been taken so the price is a mute point.
On the basis most of it is bespoke especially some of the large value drivetrain components, £500k is on the money. To have 25 of anything made is always going to have a large tooling/design cost and to spread that over such a small build number has its financial consequences.
I think you are confusing people having a different opinion to you as moaning. On the basis most of it is bespoke especially some of the large value drivetrain components, £500k is on the money. To have 25 of anything made is always going to have a large tooling/design cost and to spread that over such a small build number has its financial consequences.
Some very wealthy people are going to have a new toy with more character than the many other alternatives.
Some British people are going to make lots of money and have job security by building a brilliant car. That's happening less than a week after Westfield went into administration.
People who think they can do as well for £50k are very welcome to have a go, and will end up with a nice toy at the end. It may not be as nice as a bespoke £500k one but will still be fun for those who wish to do so.
Everyone's a winner. WTF is there not to like?
Some British people are going to make lots of money and have job security by building a brilliant car. That's happening less than a week after Westfield went into administration.
People who think they can do as well for £50k are very welcome to have a go, and will end up with a nice toy at the end. It may not be as nice as a bespoke £500k one but will still be fun for those who wish to do so.
Everyone's a winner. WTF is there not to like?
It is an eye watering price but what a glorious thing to behold. Looking forward to seeing it at Goodwood! I actually expressed an interest in one when Prodrive announced this but not had any response, not even an acknowledgement. It's twice what I'd pay for one so even if I was 1 of the lucky 25, it would be a no from me. That said, what a wonderful thing, and if you run down the spec on Prodrive's site, it has all the ingredients of being a driver's wet dream, shame none will ever experience tarmac 
ajprice said:
Tried to find a 22B picture from a similar angle for comparison.
Article says:
Prodrive says it has ‘reimagined what this car would have been today’. Nice job, guys.
I'm struggling to see how it is reimagined, when it looks the same. I get the idea of a restomod (at least I think I do), smooth of an edge here, accentuate a panel there, and so on, but this seems a bit lazy. Possibly a credit to the original design that there wasn't much to change.
FWIW I like it but no more than an Impreza (2, 4 or 5 door) from the original time.
Kawasicki said:
tiggyzak said:
£460,000 plus VAT (that should help the country get out of the hole that it's in)
If you had that amount in front of you in £50 notes you couldn't count it in 5 minutes !!
It does seem an awful lot of money.
I was pretty sure you were wrong… turns out you were right… I got to £267,750 in 5 minutes!If you had that amount in front of you in £50 notes you couldn't count it in 5 minutes !!
It does seem an awful lot of money.
thelostboy said:
navmangt said:
2ZZ Top said:
You could build something that looks and drives very similar for about £50k. That's £410,000 left over to make it look pretty and add a bit more lightness. I can't wait to see where the money has gone.
Yeah I feel like I'm not understanding the cost of this anymore, a lot of components can be bought and there are enough tuners that could sort it out. There's even a full carbon WRC panels you can get from Ireland for less than £10k last time I checked. Gearbox is a X-shift unit, dash is motec, brakes AP etc. 2ZZ Top said:
You could build something that looks and drives very similar for about £50k. That's £410,000 left over to make it look pretty and add a bit more lightness. I can't wait to see where the money has gone.
You couldn't build that for 50k. If you can I'll take two so I can keep one from the profit I'd make selling one. Obviously it's a shed load of money but they'll sell all of them, if they haven't yet, so it's hard to say it's too expensive.
I sold my 22B, and have been looking for something to replace it. I'll be totally straight up here; I WAS interested, because I can see how a classic with many trick parts would be a great toy. However, when I can buy an original 22B for £150-200k, I just don't see the value in this.
Let me preface that by saying, it's possible to go to tuners like AFP, who have previously built 1,000bhp cars, with modern gearboxes, for far less than this. I had followed Andy's build back in the day, and I knew what it cost back then (well under £100k).
And then there's the matter of provenance. Yes, I know who Prodrive are. But equally, they are a tuner, and not a manufacturer like Subaru. They have zero provenance in that regard.
I'd happily pay ~£100k for a tuners product (assuming a well-respected tuner like AFP or Prodrive), which, let's face it, is a knock off, because that means it costs less than an original. But no way in hell am I paying more for a knock off than for the original.
Let me preface that by saying, it's possible to go to tuners like AFP, who have previously built 1,000bhp cars, with modern gearboxes, for far less than this. I had followed Andy's build back in the day, and I knew what it cost back then (well under £100k).
And then there's the matter of provenance. Yes, I know who Prodrive are. But equally, they are a tuner, and not a manufacturer like Subaru. They have zero provenance in that regard.
I'd happily pay ~£100k for a tuners product (assuming a well-respected tuner like AFP or Prodrive), which, let's face it, is a knock off, because that means it costs less than an original. But no way in hell am I paying more for a knock off than for the original.
thelostboy said:
Not so sure about that. What is a quality low mileage 2 door Type R as a base now, £40,000? So saying you could build the rest of it for £10,000 is somewhat dreaming.
You're being either naive in what it takes to create an OEM-level end or result, or insulting Prodrive with what they have created. I'm sure there is a decent amount of profit in this car, but it will be a long way from what you are imagining.
Just for context, Singer almost went out of business as they weren't making enough from their £1m+ creations.
I’d suggest Singer almost went out of business because they weren’t charging enough initially. Rob Dickinson admitted very early on that the amount of man hours that went into each build was eye-watering.You're being either naive in what it takes to create an OEM-level end or result, or insulting Prodrive with what they have created. I'm sure there is a decent amount of profit in this car, but it will be a long way from what you are imagining.
Just for context, Singer almost went out of business as they weren't making enough from their £1m+ creations.
The first cars were what ? £350-400K max ?
I’m guessing most builds start with a 6 or possibly even a 7 now ?
I was shocked to learn they employed 120 people in the States a couple of years ago.
From my perspective they’ve lost some of their allure, as they’ve clearly had a big injection of cash, gone somewhat corporate and now appear to be producing 3 -4 cars a month ?
Not big numbers I grant you, but I think too many for them to retain the mystique they originally had.
That doesn’t detract one bit from what Dickinson has achieved though, his ethos, his attention to detail, his endless enthusiasm, his passion for the brand and the product and his PR savvy, is admirable IMO.
Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 20th June 21:11
hairykrishna said:
You couldn't build that for 50k. If you can I'll take two so I can keep one from the profit I'd make selling one.
Obviously it's a shed load of money but they'll sell all of them, if they haven't yet, so it's hard to say it's too expensive.
Cs400 had a bespoke cosworth engine. They were around 40-50k last time looked.Obviously it's a shed load of money but they'll sell all of them, if they haven't yet, so it's hard to say it's too expensive.
this one build with lots of expensive parts I guess? but not sure how ready it is, different pictures, some good some with work to do? anyhow, 45k
https://www.autoscout24.nl/aanbod/subaru-others-22...
https://www.autoscout24.nl/aanbod/subaru-others-22...
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